EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 1

[Ootohere]

Iron Ore out of Australia. so Commonwealth Products really.

Remember Britain is great, we once ruled the world, we had fast tea clippers, we will be great again.

 

PS.

Everything imported into Britain might be considered not British unless maybe from Gibraltar, Falklands etc.

But then there are those products that are Grown or reared or produced here, 

then exported, then re-imported, maybe after being processed abroad.

Economic Reasons, Tax Efficient or just pure fraudulent reasons as happens with meats etc through NI to the Republic then back into the UK again.  But then the UK Government knows that.

 

PPS.

Odd now how may are concerned at losing EU Funding, this that and the other.

Strange that the money that was to go to the EU that the UK now has not to pay is not now to fund just as before, 

and extra to the NHS etc.

Or was the EU actually like the 'Works Night Out Kitty payer' putting in plenty really if Admin & Corruption was not stealing and wasting much of it!

Edited 2 July, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

He wasn't addressing the leaders and citizens of Europe he was addressing the European Bureaucrats who in my opinion are fair game with the boo's, jeering and general nonsense. Farage from day one has campaigned for the ordinary people he has the balls to say what no other politicians says, he knows as he has campaigned for 17 years that the real decisions do not get made in that room they get made elsewhere.

 

Anyway it doesn't matter the mainstream media are very effective at manufacturing consent and public opinion as Naom Chomsky has pointed out.

 

I'm well aware of the picture the media can paint, the way Jezza Corbs gets portrayed is proof of that but I still dont think I'd want him doing the deals to leave. I agree with what you're saying and to a degree I agree with what he comes out with, it's just wrong time/place for me. 

[@Lee]

[theezenutz]

I'm well aware of the picture the media can paint, the way Jezza Corbs gets portrayed is proof of that but I still dont think I'd want him doing the deals to leave. I agree with what you're saying and to a degree I agree with what he comes out with, it's just wrong time/place for me. 

That's ok I respect your position. I'm always torn with Nigel because I personally really like him as a person I just have an remarkably low level of trust for politicians.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

That's ok I respect your position. I'm always torn with Nigel because I personally really like him as a person I just have an remarkably low level of trust for politicians.

 

Agree on the last point for sure. I have to have some respect for Nigel since he is essentially doing himself out of a job to a degree, no more EU means we dont need MEPs! There's also no denying he has passion for his views. There are very few politicians I have time for, most of them are only out for themselves and dont represent the guy on the street. 

[trundlenut]

Agree on the last point for sure. I have to have some respect for Nigel since he is essentially doing himself out of a job to a degree, no more EU means we dont need MEPs! There's also no denying he has passion for his views. There are very few politicians I have time for, most of them are only out for themselves and dont represent the guy on the street.

He is a product of the establishment and the elite. He is not some champion of the common man, he has an ideological hatred of the whole idea of the EU and will throw as many people under buses as it takes to achieve his aims.

He is an MEP because that was the only way he could get into prominent public office with UKIP. he will now be eyeing an MP job in 2020.

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[Paul007]

Go buy a Ginetta G50 from Yerkshire.

[eyegr]

Abstaining from buying foreign products is foolish for every country (except maybe N. Korea) given the globalised economy we live in. Instead, every nation should vote for politicians that pursue politics that make their country competitive. The German economy is a good example...

[SkodaVRS1963]

 

Oh, and the referendum is not a legally binding process.

 

You ARE David Lammy AICMFP.

 

Edited 2 July, 2016 by SkodaVRS1963

[moley]

You ARE David Lammy AICMFP.

 

No, I'm much older than him.

[@Lee]

No, I'm much older than him.

give him €5

[SkodaVRS1963]

Yeah, I'll back down.

 

Let's call the referendum null and void and have another one.

 

And then when Leave win again, we'll have another one..........and on and on until the Remain crowd get the result that they believe is correct.

 

Democracy eh?  Thank God we live in a civilized country.

[Dr Zoidberg]

We live in a democracy, and also a country where people are free to voice their opinion (which is great, by the way) on a subject they feel strongly about.
No matter what your personal views are, it's a statement of fact that some of the claims made by Leave campaigners were demonstrably false, and that since winning they have started to back track on their promises on things like funding the NHS and cutting immigration which obviously were key in people's decision making when voting.

 

As it stands, Leave won by a small margin, but nobody knows what the effect is on the economy and what deals over trade, freedom of movement and so on are going to be in place if/when we leave the EU. Once that has been decided through negotiation, it may be prudent to go back to the population and ask if they are happy to proceed based on those terms. Whether that's by way of a referendum or general election would be open to debate.

 

Had the vote been 52% in favour of stay, you can bet that there would have been a "leave" protest march organised by UKIP.

 

Let me ask you this, you clearly voted to leave the EU because you thought it would deliver changes that are best for you and/or the UK.

If in a year or so, it's very obvious that those changes aren't going to happen, would you still want to go ahead?
 

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

He is a product of the establishment and the elite. He is not some champion of the common man, he has an ideological hatred of the whole idea of the EU and will throw as many people under buses as it takes to achieve his aims.

He is an MEP because that was the only way he could get into prominent public office with UKIP. he will now be eyeing an MP job in 2020.

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I wasn't saying Nigel was representing the man on the street, the only person who seems to be in touch with reality is Corbyn, but thats a whole other discussion. 

[trundlenut]

I wasn't saying Nigel was representing the man on the street, the only person who seems to be in touch with reality is Corbyn, but thats a whole other discussion.

But that is what Farage tries to make out he is doing. My point is that he isn't doing himself out of a job, he wants a better job. All this taking back control and sovereignty rhubarb is trying to get people to vote for him. But it's all about what farage wants even if it doesn't help anyone else.

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[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

But that is what Farage tries to make out he is doing. My point is that he isn't doing himself out of a job, he wants a better job. All this taking back control and sovereignty rhubarb is trying to get people to vote for him. But it's all about what farage wants even if it doesn't help anyone else.

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Fair point tbh, didnt look at it like that. 

[mender]

We live in a democracy, and also a country where people are free to voice their opinion (which is great, by the way) on a subject they feel strongly about.

No matter what your personal views are, it's a statement of fact that some of the claims made by Leave campaigners were demonstrably false, and that since winning they have started to back track on their promises on things like funding the NHS and cutting immigration which obviously were key in people's decision making when voting.

 

As it stands, Leave won by a small margin, but nobody knows what the effect is on the economy and what deals over trade, freedom of movement and so on are going to be in place if/when we leave the EU. Once that has been decided through negotiation, it may be prudent to go back to the population and ask if they are happy to proceed based on those terms. Whether that's by way of a referendum or general election would be open to debate.

 

Had the vote been 52% in favour of stay, you can bet that there would have been a "leave" protest march organised by UKIP.

 

Let me ask you this, you clearly voted to leave the EU because you thought it would deliver changes that are best for you and/or the UK.

If in a year or so, it's very obvious that those changes aren't going to happen, would you still want to go ahead?

 

All exactly as I have said above in various, but in a more concise and appealing way-this is the point, exactly

[lol-lol]

With Theresa May as Tory leader BREXIT will be pushed so far in the future that so much will have changed by the time of invoking Article 50 and the leave actually happening that all has really happened is the mass of uncertainly has caused the UK's currency to weaken making immigration to UK less attractive, job done on that score then, and making it much more expensive for us Brits to go abroad and goods more expensive due to the higher import costs, isolationism by consequence. 

[lol-lol]

Tory party to put a Remainer, ie There May, in charge, says a lot about the various characters and motives. We can clearly look forward to years of economic uncertainty and drift. May not be what was wanted by any side but reality it seems.

Edited 3 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[gadgetman]

I just don't get all the nonsense that the next PM must be from the leave camp.

Given its not them negotiating but a team from all parties, I just don't understand that logic.

We need a strong leader with other skills than simply a desire to leave the EU.

[Wet Kipper]

Well, if the next Pm needs to accurately reflect the wishes of the public, they'll need a split personality

[moley]

We need a strong leader with other skills than simply a desire to leave the EU.

Spot on, We need someone who is going to negotiate the best deal for the UK in all circumstances. 

[GentleGiant]

If we stopped EU immigration overnight then it's still 200,000 per year.  That's 200,000 people from outside the EU we have always had control over.

 

To make any difference to housing demand we would need to kick tens of thousands out ASAP.  So much of the housing we have is not accessible and won't be.  Also most of out housing stock is old.  Come 2050 75% of the houses in the UK will have been built before 2010.

 

I dont believe the EU/non EU immigration figures, a FOI request in 2012 asked how many Fiancé/Spouse visas the UK issue per year - the answer was 250., not 250,000; so where are these 200,000 coming from and what are they doing??

 

The figures are wrong, either deliberately, or because Borders and Immigration are incompetent*; having just finished the process for SWMBO, I can tell you that getting to the point where you can stay in the UK on an "Indefinite Leave to Remain" visa cost us in excess of £10,000, and 5 years of your life.

We were lucky, we just scraped in under the old. old immigration rules, the old rules and and the new rules (yes, changed TWICE in the last 5 years), make it a lot more expensive and the timeline is longer.

 

 

No-one from the poor countries portrayed as stealing the jobs of taxi drivers etc, can afford that kind of money, and to be sponsored in, the UK citizen must also earn nearly £20,000 MINIMUM per sponsored adult (children only cost you and extra £5,000 each).

 

* They record people coming in, but regularly fail to note who is leaving; for example, they were unaware my first Chinese fiancé had returned to China in 2008, and raised the issue when applying for SWMBO's first visa. I suspect many of those 200,000 are students who stay on an extra few months/year before going home; because they dont leave at the obvious end of term dates, they get missed.

 

Anyway, how many Briskodians joined yesterdays "Sore Losers Parade"; having skimmed this thread I can name at least one suspect.

[trundlenut]

I dont believe the EU/non EU immigration figures, a FOI request in 2012 asked how many Fiancé/Spouse visas the UK issue per year - the answer was 250., not 250,000; so where are these 200,000 coming from and what are they doing??

The figures are wrong, either deliberately, or because Borders and Immigration are incompetent*; having just finished the process for SWMBO, I can tell you that getting to the point where you can stay in the UK on an "Indefinite Leave to Remain" visa cost us in excess of £10,000, and 5 years of your life.

We were lucky, we just scraped in under the old. old immigration rules, the old rules and and the new rules (yes, changed TWICE in the last 5 years), make it a lot more expensive and the timeline is longer.

No-one from the poor countries portrayed as stealing the jobs of taxi drivers etc, can afford that kind of money, and to be sponsored in, the UK citizen must also earn nearly £20,000 MINIMUM per sponsored adult (children only cost you and extra £5,000 each).

* They record people coming in, but regularly fail to note who is leaving; for example, they were unaware my first Chinese fiancé had returned to China in 2008, and raised the issue when applying for SWMBO's first visa. I suspect many of those 200,000 are students who stay on an extra few months/year before going home; because they dont leave at the obvious end of term dates, they get missed.

Anyway, how many Briskodians joined yesterdays "Sore Losers Parade"; having skimmed this thread I can name at least one suspect.

Have you heard of the commonwealth?

Oh, and what point are you trying to make?

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[gadgetman]

I dont believe the EU/non EU immigration figures, a FOI request in 2012 asked how many Fiancé/Spouse visas the UK issue per year - the answer was 250., not 250,000; so where are these 200,000 coming from and what are they doing??

The figures are wrong, either deliberately, or because Borders and Immigration are incompetent*; having just finished the process for SWMBO, I can tell you that getting to the point where you can stay in the UK on an "Indefinite Leave to Remain" visa cost us in excess of £10,000, and 5 years of your life.

We were lucky, we just scraped in under the old. old immigration rules, the old rules and and the new rules (yes, changed TWICE in the last 5 years), make it a lot more expensive and the timeline is longer.

No-one from the poor countries portrayed as stealing the jobs of taxi drivers etc, can afford that kind of money, and to be sponsored in, the UK citizen must also earn nearly £20,000 MINIMUM per sponsored adult (children only cost you and extra £5,000 each).

* They record people coming in, but regularly fail to note who is leaving; for example, they were unaware my first Chinese fiancé had returned to China in 2008, and raised the issue when applying for SWMBO's first visa. I suspect many of those 200,000 are students who stay on an extra few months/year before going home; because they dont leave at the obvious end of term dates, they get missed.

Anyway, how many Briskodians joined yesterdays "Sore Losers Parade"; having skimmed this thread I can name at least one suspect.

Over 100,000 of the non eu numbers are students and temporary workers.