EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 1

[theezenutz]

Boris Johnson then Nigel Farage.....

 

Both sold the country lies, both know they would be in huge trouble trying to keep promises they made, so both have now run away

 

YOU MADE THE MESS, SORT IT OUT, AR5EH0LES

In the case of Farage the British people voted at the last election in such a way that even if he wanted too he does not have the power to do anything not my choice but the British Public's.

 

Of course better in it together Dave got the L vote and has packed his bags and legged it, not saying it wasn't the right move but the bloke didn't even put up a fight now all that remains of his legacy is changing the wording of minimum wage to living wage. Nice.

 

Anyway I read one of your previous comments talking about Farage dividing the Public,well I don't want to go back over thing's but my question to you is. Do you think you are helping to unite the Country or do you think you stance is creating more division.

 

Seriously it's time to let this go now, surely?

[SkodaVRS1963]

In pompy, are you kidding? There might be huge numbers in gun wharf, but not the local population.

 

This was on the walk from Portsmouth Harbour station upto Portsmouth & Southsea station and then mincing around (what I assume is) the town centre.......it was the bit with Cascades Shopping Centre in?

[@Lee]

I did

Nothing like a bit of south coast port rivalry.

Never did work out which ones were really the scummers though, but I seem to remember it having something to do with soton breaking the pompy port strike.

Never understood it myself but I read this a few weeks ago; The first paragraph looks like how the Leave lot campaigned too lol

 

http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/news/16115/great-pompey-myths-debunked--no-1-the-origin-of-scummers/?scrollto=post9250

[mender]

In the case of Farage the British people voted at the last election in such a way that even if he wanted too he does not have the power to do anything not my choice but the British Public's.

 

Of course better in it together Dave got the L vote and has packed his bags and legged it, not saying it wasn't the right move but the bloke didn't even put up a fight now all that remains of his legacy is changing the wording of minimum wage to living wage. Nice.

 

Anyway I read one of your previous comments talking about Farage dividing the Public,well I don't want to go back over thing's but my question to you is. Do you think you are helping to unite the Country or do you think you stance is creating more division.

 

Seriously it's time to let this go now, surely?

Some good points

 

I think the whole thing will run and run whilst there is doubt and a lack of firm policy.  We have gone from a united country earlier in the year, albeit with disquiet in some areas regarding immigration excess, lack of spending on NHS and some feeling there was no control over EU policies, to a country where the divisions have been spelled out in capitals, between working and middle class, manual labourers and academia, north and south (or London and rest of England) and so on, divided on migration, EU policy, NHS spending and the like.

 

We are now in a position where a small minority (many of which have regretted their vote in light of the facts) have voted leave, but voted for an unspecified deal which has yet to be decided.

 

The promises made by Leave will be roundly broken and the lead campaigners have run away, unaccountable.  Many will be indignant about this.

 

We face stark choices which will not provide all of the unrealistic answers the Leave voters wanted, so there will be further unrest and attrition.

 

We face a delay implementing article 50 whilst leaders tussle and this may well bring into question what the country really does want as the effects start to take hold; reduced investment, higher food and fuel costs, a reality of what will be given to the NHS, a reality of the proposed choice between free movement vs free trade and so on.

 

It is not a time to roll over and accept leaving the UK on any terms, we need to get answers, clarify matters and either parliament or the public need to vote on what is best.

 

if the whole thing had not been fundamentally wrong throughout, I would accept it and move for unity.  But we are in a state of disarray that is not being sorted and we need more before accepting it.

[trundlenut]

Some good points

I think the whole thing will run and run whilst there is doubt and a lack of firm policy. We have gone from a united country earlier in the year, albeit with disquiet in some areas regarding immigration excess, lack of spending on NHS and some feeling there was no control over EU policies, to a country where the divisions have been spelled out in capitals, between working and middle class, manual labourers and academia, north and south (or London and rest of England) and so on, divided on migration, EU policy, NHS spending and the like.

We are now in a position where a small minority (many of which have regretted their vote in light of the facts) have voted leave, but voted for an unspecified deal which has yet to be decided.

The promises made by Leave will be roundly broken and the lead campaigners have run away, unaccountable. Many will be indignant about this.

We face stark choices which will not provide all of the unrealistic answers the Leave voters wanted, so there will be further unrest and attrition.

We face a delay implementing article 50 whilst leaders tussle and this may well bring into question what the country really does want as the effects start to take hold; reduced investment, higher food and fuel costs, a reality of what will be given to the NHS, a reality of the proposed choice between free movement vs free trade and so on.

It is not a time to roll over and accept leaving the UK on any terms, we need to get answers, clarify matters and either parliament or the public need to vote on what is best.

if the whole thing had not been fundamentally wrong throughout, I would accept it and move for unity. But we are in a state of disarray that is not being sorted and we need more before accepting it.

That saved me some typing [emoji106]

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[kentphil1]

Just when we all thought it was cut and dried - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36703799

[@Lee]

We are now in a position where a small minority (many of which have regretted their vote in light of the facts) have voted leave, but voted for an unspecified deal which has yet to be decided.

 

The promises made by Leave will be roundly broken and the lead campaigners have run away, unaccountable.  Many will be indignant about this.

 

I was watching The Wright Stuff this morning (still off work ) and in one of the phone-ins a woman said she voted leave because she was fed up of of big companies squirreling away and avoiding paying tax. One of the panellists looked flabbergahsted she thought that was the fault of the EU rather than the UK government.

 

Facepalm.

 

It'll be on Demand 5 at some point.

[@Lee]

Just when we all thought it was cut and dried - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36703799

Blair for PM again then. He ignored pretty much everybody lol

[lol-lol]

Excellent Panorama program with Adrian Chiles last night which voiced just how so many economically struggling people decided that the current status quo where, as they saw it, immigration was causing pressure on services and downward pressure on wages and they voted Leave as it was the only vote that would change things as to vote Remain would mean thing would continue be bad or get worse.

 

Really made me think of those Leavers reasons and I respect their views and it exposes just how much both the Cons and Labour have failed "the working man in the street".  It is possible their voting Leave will work to drive Immigration down as people from Europe, and even wider afield as less likely to come the UK with the change in exchange rates so indirectly they might well start to regain "their country".

 

A real eye opener of a program and credit to him and the time for put the views across so well and it certainly makes me far more empathetic with their view point.  I still am a passionate European but it really made me think and review my holistic view of the UK spectrum of views and reasons for holding those views.   

Edited 5 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[Dr Zoidberg]

Excellent Panorama program with Adrian Chiles last night which voiced just how so many economically struggling people decided that the current status quo where, as they saw it, immigration was causing pressure on services and downward pressure on wages and they voted Leave as it was the only vote that would change things as to vote Remain would mean thing would continue be bad or get worse.

 

Really made me think of those Leavers reasons and I respect their views and it exposes just how much both the Cons and Labour have failed "the working man in the street".  It is possible their voting Leave will work to drive Immigration down as people from Europe, and even wider afield as less likely to come the UK with the change in exchange rates so indirectly they might well start to regain "their country".

 

I understand why they will have voted that way, but I believe that it's more likely that they will be hurt by the lack of EU work related legal protections, and the reality is that Immigration is unlikely to be cut so they'll wind up worse off.

[lol-lol]

I understand why they will have voted that way, but I believe that it's more likely that they will be hurt by the lack of EU work related legal protections, and the reality is that Immigration is unlikely to be cut so they'll wind up worse off.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is the way of the world at the moment that the those who are already quite poor and getting relatively poorer and those already quite rich are getting even richer.

 

I think there may well be an affect, with the 10% devaluation of the UK currency, against just about all other currencies ie Euro, eastern European currencies like the Zloty and the USD so the UK is a less attractive place for foreign workers to work.  http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=PLN&to=GBP&view=1M

 

But also those less well off in the UK will start to suffer from increased prices as inflation comes back with a bang.  Not sure the rises in the minimum wage will counteract that.

Edited 5 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[gadgetman]

I understand why they will have voted that way, but I believe that it's more likely that they will be hurt by the lack of EU work related legal protections, and the reality is that Immigration is unlikely to be cut so they'll wind up worse off.

Yup. Either more jobs will be lost in these areas as eu linked businesses close/move back inside the EU, or investment the areas get through EU grants won't be maintained if we go it alone.

The single market is key to may leave plans. Without it, the figures don't stack up for us to go it alone. Under WTO trading, it'd cost the same as we currently pay the EU. So no funding left for anything like agriculture, fishing, regeneration projects. Nothing.

The poorest parts of the UK would simply get significantly poorer

[lol-lol]

The remaining part of the EU has no choice but to apply WTO MFN rates until an FTA is in place and that will be many many months after the UK leaves the EU fully ie 2 years after Article 50 invoked.    

 

We can lower prices to may less Ad Valorem duties but then may be subject to Anti-Dumping proceedings by the EU/WTO if we sell below market conditions to maintain market share.

 

Some big business, if they maximum the loss of workers rights in leaving the EU, will be able to adopt working practices closer to US and far East countries and make more profits that might outweigh EU benefits but at the cost of worker protection.  

[jlwah]

Excellent Panorama program with Adrian Chiles last night which voiced just how so many economically struggling people decided that the current status quo where, as they saw it, immigration was causing pressure on services and downward pressure on wages and they voted Leave as it was the only vote that would change things as to vote Remain would mean thing would continue be bad or get worse.

Never thought I'd see those words in the same sentence  

[Scribbler]

Excellent Panorama program with Adrian Chiles last night which voiced just how so many economically struggling people decided that the current status quo where, as they saw it, immigration was causing pressure on services and downward pressure on wages and they voted Leave as it was the only vote that would change things as to vote Remain would mean thing would continue be bad or get worse.

 

Really made me think of those Leavers reasons and I respect their views and it exposes just how much both the Cons and Labour have failed "the working man in the street".  It is possible their voting Leave will work to drive Immigration down as people from Europe, and even wider afield as less likely to come the UK with the change in exchange rates so indirectly they might well start to regain "their country".

 

A real eye opener of a program and credit to him and the time for put the views across so well and it certainly makes me far more empathetic with their view point.  I still am a passionate European but it really made me think and review my holistic view of the UK spectrum of views and reasons for holding those views.   

 

 

Really? I didn't watch it purely because he was presenting it, I knew it would be a hatchet job and a really bad caricature of the poor 'up t north'.

Adrian has gone through a bit of soul searching recently and found God renewed his Catholicism. I think that's all I need to say about that.

If it didn't have an biased skew on the editing then im the pope. Please don't think everyone in the North is like what's portrayed in the media

and our reasons for voting Leave are many and varied. I certainly don't think Adrian f**king Chiles is the Oracle on such issues.

Edited 5 July, 2016 by Scribbler

[fabdavrav]

Up here they had an interview with Bertie Armstrong (CE of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation), loads of fishermen up here voted to leave, the EU laws on fishing etc are a right PITA up here.

 

Norway, Faroe Islands, Iceland fish our waters, up here & really sod up things for our fishermen (ever watch trawlermen on TV).

 

One comment he made was really funny, talking about the direct policy making re fishing, 28 countries make decisions on fishing that our fishermen have to abide by...

 

15 of those members don't have a big fishing fleet. like we do (there are 13 member states with catches per year over 100K tonnes)

 

That's really clever..........no wonder our fishermen voted OUT

 

A lot of leavers voted out because of how their lives are directly affected by the EU, they did not need to be so called "brain washed" by politicians egos as some of the remain people are stating....

[lol-lol]

Really? I didn't watch it purely because he was presenting it, I knew it would be a hatchet job and a really bad caricature of the poor 'up t north'.

Adrian has gone through a bit of soul searching recently and found God renewed his Catholicism. I think that's all I need to say about that.

If it didn't have an biased skew on the editing then im the pope. Please don't think everyone in the North is like what's portrayed in the media

and our reasons for voting Leave are many and varied. I certainly don't think Adrian f**king Chiles is the Oracle on such issues.

 

Well it was about Birmingham which is not up North but in the Midlands, less up North than the Notts for example so apart from the bits in between the word "Really" and "issues" you were right on the money. Scribbling is what it was.

Edited 5 July, 2016 by lol-lol

[lol-lol]

Never thought I'd see those words in the same sentence  

 

Perhaps I slightly bias in this. Boing boing.  Just thought he was balanced, considered and sensitive which is unusual for any media outlet these days. .

[Scribbler]

Well it was about Birmingham which is not up North but in the Midlands, less up North than the Notts for example so apart from the bits in between the word "Really" and "issues" you were right on the money. Scribbling is what it was.

 

Birmingham and the black country is very up north for anyone who didn't understand why we voted leave.

[KenONeill]

Birmingham and the black country is very up north for anyone who didn't understand why we voted leave.

Seriously? It takes me about 5x longer to drive South to Barmyhum than to carry on from there to London.

[Scribbler]

Seriously? It takes me about 5x longer to drive South to Barmyhum than to carry on from there to London.

 

I said those that don't understand the decision not those that voted remain, subtle but important difference.

I'm implying rightly or wrongly that the elite inside the M25 are on a different planet and we are like

two separate countries. If your a fan of game of thrones then its basically inside the M25 is Kings landing

and outside is north of the wall and we are the wildlings.

 

Edit we might be winter fell and you lot might be the wildlings lol.

Edited 5 July, 2016 by Scribbler

[Chorlton]

I said those that don't understand the decision not those that voted remain, subtle but important difference.

I'm implying rightly or wrongly that the elite inside the M25 are on a different planet and we are like

two separate countries. If your a fan of game of thrones then its basically inside the M25 is Kings landing

and outside is north of the wall and we are the wildlings.

 

Edit we might be winter fell and you lot might be the wildlings lol.

Well the Leavers got what they wanted and 'Winter's coming' now.

[cheezemonkhai]

Never understood it myself but I read this a few weeks ago; The first paragraph looks like how the Leave lot campaigned too lol

 

http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/news/16115/great-pompey-myths-debunked--no-1-the-origin-of-scummers/?scrollto=post9250

I've heard the pompy lot broke soton too and as that says there's a lot more to it.

Frankly it seems to have worked out for soton in the end

[cheezemonkhai]

Well the Leavers got what they wanted and 'Winter's coming' now.

I'm sure some of leave would have you believe certain groups they claim are terrorists are also the white walkers...

[Scribbler]

Well the Leavers got what they wanted and 'Winter's coming' now.

 

Or the optimists might say that those in the north have prevented Daenerys Targaryen and the unsullied (Europe) from taking over, Will take back control of Kingslanding (Westminster) and unite the 7 Kingdoms of Westeros. :clap:

Edited 5 July, 2016 by Scribbler