EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 1

[TonyB1965]

So let's turn it around. A 'bloody foreigner' comes here and your daughter has a fling with him (not that she would as I'm sure you brought her up better than that) and she alleges assault after he's flown back.

I'm certain you'd be crying out for some sort of arrest warrant to have him brought to justice in the UK wouldn't you?

Not much point trying to debate with people who use the implied "waycist" meme because I care about the future of my country. Let me know when you want to be adult and I'll happily answer the question. For your information I've defended those "foreigners" in their own country, so that kind of bs doesn't really wash with me.

[trundlenut]

Don't believe me, check the EU themselves, Chile has a free trade deal with the EU, can you tell me if that includes free movement of people between Chile and the EU? and if not why not? I mean that's mandatory isn't it?

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/chile/

Go and have a look at the actual document, it's 212 pages long and fairly dry but there are some requirements placed upon Chile with regard to subjects such as agriculture, gender equality, crime, money laundering, illegal immigration, that's in the first 50 pages. Mainly they require Chile to adopt EU standards. Agriculture it should be noted is more nuanced, which seems to focus on avocados based on other reading.

[SkodaVRS1963]

You can bang your head all you like, the Professor you linked to is being disingenuous, EU law has supremacy over UK law, it's enshrined in the 1972 Treaty of Rome, that is a fact, feel free to check it out.

 

The good thing about facts are that they are indisputable.

 

It is, and always will be, something that grates with those who have their own agenda.

[@Lee]

Not much point trying to debate with people who use the implied "waycist" meme because I care about the future of my country. Let me know when you want to be adult and I'll happily answer the question. For your information I've defended those "foreigners" in their own country, so that kind of bs doesn't really wash with me.

I've heard that mentioned a lot by ex squaddies and I work with a LOT of them.

They all voted leave, were proud to have served in HM forces but you know what else? They're some of the most racist people I know. Funny as **** and great people to work with but racist nonetheless.

[SkodaVRS1963]

I've heard that mentioned a lot by ex squaddies and I work with a LOT of them.

They all voted leave, were proud to have served in HM forces but you know what else? They're some of the most racist people I know. Funny as **** and great people to work with but racist nonetheless.

 

Define "racist"?

 

Remember, Paul Gascoigne was recently convicted for making a perfectly innocuous observation that a black guy, in a black suit, wasn't visible in a darkened part of a room unless he smiled.

 

My real world example?  A very black girl in a black swimsuit was laid down in the darkened steam room at my gym; the only reason I walked in and didn't sit on her was because she smiled at me.

 

If I recall that *factual* event, am I a racist?

 

And the black girl in question actually said to me "it happens a lot, I should buy some white costumes".

 

Maybe she's racist for referring to the colour of the costume?

 

FFS Britain, grow a backbone.

[@Lee]

Define "racist"?

 

Remember, Paul Gascoigne was recently convicted for making a perfectly innocuous observation that a black guy, in a black suit, wasn't visible in a darkened part of a room unless he smiled.

 

My real world example?  A very black girl in a black swimsuit was laid down in the darkened steam room at my gym; the only reason I walked in and didn't sit on her was because she smiled at me.

 

If I recall that *factual* event, am I a racist?

 

And the black girl in question actually said to me "it happens a lot, I should buy some white costumes".

 

Maybe she's racist for referring to the colour of the costume?

 

FFS Britain, grow a backbone.

sand ******s, Pakis, ****ing Krauts, black *****. All terms I've heard them use.

Along with the usual 'send 'em back' and ****ing Poles.

[gadgetman]

Seems voters want single market access over curbing immigration

http://news.sky.com/story/britons-prefer-good-eu-trade-deal-to-curbs-on-immigration-in-brexit-talks-says-poll-10619198

[@Lee]

Seems voters want single market access over curbing immigration

http://news.sky.com/story/britons-prefer-good-eu-trade-deal-to-curbs-on-immigration-in-brexit-talks-says-poll-10619198

but, didn't we already have favourable trade deals?

 

And then there was the deal Cameron made https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/camerons-eu-deal-what-he-wanted-and-what-he-got

[Ootohere]

The SKY article on the poll says how many adults were asked, no guarantee they are Britons or were even voters or leave pr stay voters or even voters.

2,037 giving an opinion is hardly a 'suggestion' of what the population of the British Isles and various dependencies want.

http://comresglobal.com/our-work/poll-archive

The Poll questions are there.

(odd where they get the opinions of Conservative or Labour voters, or people that say they are. Lots of 'Britons are neither or might say they are,

then we really should get the percentage of the opinion of those that are not Labour or Conservative voters.)

 

Like all polls they mean nothing, the one that counted was the Referendum where people voted BREXIT and the UK Government were for Staying in the EU.

BREXIT it is to be, and the BREXIT that the UK Government Campaigned against and ended up on the wrong side.

Edited 15 October, 2016 by Offski

[TonyB1965]

I've heard that mentioned a lot by ex squaddies and I work with a LOT of them.

They all voted leave, were proud to have served in HM forces but you know what else? They're some of the most racist people I know. Funny as **** and great people to work with but racist nonetheless.

Not the ones I've served with, it's just banter and everything is open to ridicule, colour (including your own), religion, politics etc etc. To be honest the term has no meaning anymore, it's just an excuse to shut down debate for people who have no answer. The real racists are the people who obsess about colour and mention it all the time. Me, I couldn't care less about colour, it's character that matters to me.

[TonyB1965]

Seems voters want single market access over curbing immigration

http://news.sky.com/story/britons-prefer-good-eu-trade-deal-to-curbs-on-immigration-in-brexit-talks-says-poll-10619198

 

Seems voters want single market access over curbing immigration

http://news.sky.com/story/britons-prefer-good-eu-trade-deal-to-curbs-on-immigration-in-brexit-talks-says-poll-10619198

Ah yes, Sky, remoaner central, reports on a poll from Comres, one of the pollsters who got it completely wrong before Brexit, to obtain a result they both want to see lol. It's the mainstream media narrative, they just don't get it do they. Anyone who thinks that 17.4 million people don't place immigration as a high priority is either deluding themselves or just lying.

[trundlenut]

Ah yes, Sky, remoaner central, reports on a poll from Comres, one of the pollsters who got it completely wrong before Brexit, to obtain a result they both want to see lol. It's the mainstream media narrative, they just don't get it do they. Anyone who thinks that 17.4 million people don't place immigration as a high priority is either deluding themselves or just lying.

Doesn't matter what people think, just what May and Brexit boys have decided we thought. but you're not allowed to know what it is we thought, buts it definitely what we asked for.

Edited 15 October, 2016 by trundlenut

[TonyB1965]

Doesn't matter what people think, just what May and Brexit boys have decided we thought. but you're not allowed to know what it is we thought, buts it definitely what we asked for.

There were two options on the ballot paper, stay or leave, stay lost, that's it, we get to leave, nothing more to be said. In the original referendum in 1975 it was the same thing, there was no consideration for those that didn't want to join, now it's your turn to get over it and suck it up. Maybe in 40 years time you'll get another chance, but I doubt the EU will exist by then anyway, time to move on.

[trundlenut]

There were two options on the ballot paper, stay or leave, stay lost, that's it, we get to leave, nothing more to be said. In the original referendum in 1975 it was the same thing, there was no consideration for those that didn't want to join, now it's your turn to get over it and suck it up. Maybe in 40 years time you'll get another chance, but I doubt the EU will exist by then anyway, time to move on.

And wherever we end up, be it no change or it all goes down the toilet it's what we voted for. Even if we didn't leave because the cost would be too high. No choice, no involvement, just the blame.

We're riding the bull and BoJo the clown is poking it with a very long stick.

[lol-lol]

There will be winners and losers, no doubt, but we now also have massive opportunities and I have no doubt in the long run we will be better off. Either way, giving away our sovereignty is just too big a price to pay to be a member of a corrupt cartel, and pay billions for the privilege to boot.

 

It will take at least a decade and probably closer to two decades to end up in a place that may be better due to the very poor way we are exiting the EU, that is a very long time for most people to wait and the consequence is a very significant, it would appear around 5% loss of wealth to the UK and its citizen which may get clawed back from around 2030 onwards.  Instead of paying a few billion a year to belong to the world largest single market with no requirement for customs entries for our goods and Visas for our citizens we are going down the road of tens of billions a year loss to the UK economy and a requirement to obtain Visas quite possibly for our movement (those who cannot obtain dual nationality).

 

The regaining of sovereignty issue can be seen to be an illusion. The majority of immigrant coming to the EU each year can be seen from the stats to be from non EU countries so leaving the EU's free movement of its citizens will have a minor effect on those numbers whereas the current large downturn in the UK's currency, as an accidental byproduct, is likely to as the UK has, in a mere 3 months, become a much less attractive place for workers to come and work and send money back to their originating country.

 

I am looking forward to all the opportunities to expand in my industry of re-introducing the whole layer of customs procedures to the 44% of the UK's trade with the EU and on all those German, Czech etc cars and collecting all those taxes to help pay down the UK's massive and still increasing national debt, doing my bit to help.  Not sure UK citizens will be so happy with an increase of about a third in the cost of such goods due to the combination of currency shift and customs tariffs but it does provide the UK government an opportunity to collect a lot more taxes.  I am already collecting much more taxes on non-EU imports due to the 20% currency shift seen already and getting the other half of UK imports included in that tax collection and administrative processing will be a huge growth in the international logistics industry due to BREXIT.  UK government will win on the taxes front, UK citizens lose on the inflation front it is unfolding.         

Edited 16 October, 2016 by lol-lol

[gadgetman]

There were two options on the ballot paper, stay or leave, stay lost, that's it, we get to leave, nothing more to be said. In the original referendum in 1975 it was the same thing, there was no consideration for those that didn't want to join, now it's your turn to get over it and suck it up. Maybe in 40 years time you'll get another chance, but I doubt the EU will exist by then anyway, time to move on.

It is a complex issue brought down to a yes/no choice with zero facts from either side.

However as I said, leave painted a no risk, no brainer choice which is why Leave won.

When those who wanted a better future realise its not what was sold during campaigning Boris and his stooges will have retired into some cushy well paid job happy to blame his advisers.

Notice you hear very little from Michael Gove these days.

[@Lee]

[Ootohere]

The 3 BREXITeers are men of the people, the one we must never forget was from humble beginnings & in the SAS TA,

the one we must remember resigned from being the Defence Secretary because shared a room with his mate that called himself a special adviser so as to save money for the tax payer.

Then the one that if he was not the Foreign Secretary would still be out clowning around or even terrifying children while dressed as a clown.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Offski

[gadgetman]

You missed Priti Patel. Something has to wipe that smug grin off her face

[@Lee]

BoJo 'wanted to punch Gove' (who wouldn't?)

 

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnsons-secret-remain-article-revealed-10619546

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-johnson-idUKKBN12F0U3

[Ootohere]

Lets us never forget Priti but she can only be the 4th Musk-wearing BEXITeer, because even with the way this is working out there can no mixing up 3 or 4.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Offski

[gadgetman]

BoJo 'wanted to punch Gove' (who wouldn't?)

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnsons-secret-remain-article-revealed-10619546

Essentially we had 2 people who wanted to be PM hijacking the campaign for their own ends. I'm pleased they both lost. Just the same as Aaron Banks trying to buy his way and losing every time. I enjoy watching him waste his fortune.

[@Lee]

it's an article by another 'expert' on how the media has swayed the UK over the years

 

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-uk-media-euroscepticism-and-the-uk-referendum-on-eu-membership-2/

[gadgetman]

Lets us never forget Priti but she can only be the 4th Musk-wearing BEXITeer, because even with the way this is working out there can no mixing up 3 or 4.

Miladay de Winter

[Ootohere]

This is Scotland only Conservative & Unionist constituency MP & also the Secretary of State for Scotland.

The person doing the deals for Scotland.

A man that makes many feel sick and that really needs to tidy up his act, but maybe in private.

(What did he have for breakfast this morning.)

There is a term for him in Scotland, a mink.

Edited 16 October, 2016 by Offski