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Running in TSI engines


Rainmaker

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Something that concerns me - your 'new engine' has probably been well and truly run in before you even set your eyes on it and probably driven by up to 10 people or more by the time you get it.

 

Drivers from new:

Off the production line in to a compound at the factory

Out of the compound on to a car transporter

Off the car transporter in to a sea port compound where its stored while waiting for the ship

Driven in to a ship

Driven out the ship at delivery port in to a compound - see my observations below

Out of the compound on to another car transporter - possibly to another compound

Driven off the transporter and delivered to a dealer

PDI check by the dealer

 

Anyway you get the idea.

 

I once parked up by the huge car compound at Bristol docks (I don't think Skoda's are delivered here) and watched them unloading the cars from a ship. They were running three minibuses all full of drivers. The minibuses would drive in to the ship and the drivers would drive each vehicle out of the ship and in to the compound - they didn't hang around, you could hear the revs being used all right as they raced the new cars across the compound. Anyone who's ever been past Bristol car compound knows how big the site is. There are over 500 acres of compound, far more than you can see from the motorway. The last driver from each minibus is then followed by the minibus where all the waiting drivers hop back in and the whole process starts all over again until the ship has been emptied. And as quickly as they can - in someone's pride and joy.

 

The other huge advancement in modern engines is materials technology as well as modern fully synthetic oil. I remember the days of hearing worn big end bearings knocking, or piston slap, engines requiring a rebore etc - all mainly things of the past. The engines in modern vehicles seem to be the longer lasting bit, the suspension, steering, electrics and all related components seem to wear out first and generally scrap the vehicle due to economic costs while the engine is still going strong.

 

The 'robots' as you call them are incredibly accurate these days, both in the machining tolerances and assembly of every single engine component - I guess for those in the know you will realise from my user name it's what I do for a living. The company I work for supply CNC (Computer Numerically Controlled) machines and I go along and train people how to set them up and run them. Every time a new production line is set up some new technology comes along and the game moves on once again. The Mercedes C class factory in East London is very impressive, unfortunately I've never been in a Skoda factory - yet.

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A few people have asked for this thread, so here it is. I'm not a mechanic nor an engineer, but I do have a fair bit of experience in this area (on both ends of the spectrum) and am happy to share what I've learnt so far. More importantly, despite other threads existing on the topic it might be an opportune time for other TSI owners to chip in with their experiences. Please forgive my verbosity and any omissions.

 

Hi Rainmaker, really appreciated this topic. 

 

Same here, not a mechanic or an engineer, but I've noticed a few things in my aprox 450,000miles driven so far in this lifetime   :) 

 

I too have learned that the first 600miles are crucial to the way the car behaves in her future. I am talking about oil consumption, fuel consumption and brake discs wear. 

 

I really believe that running in in important - if you value your pride and joy and expect to have it in pristine condition - that's why VAG or some motorcycle manufacturers reccomend it.

 

No matter how good the "robots" are nowadays, perfect parts are difficult to phisically manufacture, so the first hundred miles are essential for the mating of the parts. You've explained it very well, so I will not go into that again.

Same with brakes, the first 20-30 brakings are essential for how the brake pads are seated on the brake discs.  

 

My "old school" running in for the current Superb was "overdoing it" - almost 3,000mile before she saw the redline and Sport mode, but, now, at 50k miles there is 0 oil consumption and I still run the original brake pads and discs. The car is used in normal D mode in town and only Sport mode on B roads and twisties, so I give her the beans with every good occasion, but ONLY after Oil Temperature has risen over 85 degrees. This is essential for the turbine cooling as well. 

 

Hopefully I'll post soon an order for a 2.0TSI DSG Superb (still wait to see the prices for SportLine in Romania), so I look forward to a petrol engine running in (last 10 years only diesel running in). I'll be looking for advice at that time, as for sure going from a diesel running in (average rpm is 2-2200) to a petrol engine running in (I guess 3500rpm) will be a bit scary ("OMG, it that 3500rpm too much for the engine?" type of questions, after being used to diesel) 

 

Regards

Edited by Norian
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Now that's what I like to see! - Bags of common sense backed up with good sound reasoning  :thumbup:

 

Most illuminating, and a BIG thank you for taking the time to put that all together and for sharing it with us   :clap: - regards....Tony

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Hi Rainmaker,

Although eventually I will be running in a diesel I agree with everything you said and believe exactly the same principles apply to diesels.

I have also read your notes on higher octane fuel. Did you use that from the off, or use the ordinary stuff initially? I would have

expected the higher rated fuel to be better for the car from the start but would be interested to know your views.

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Great post, and as an Engineer I agree with all of it. I ran mine in very carefully but made sure I used all the reasonable rpm range without going mad, had the oil replaced at 1,000 miles and then began opening the 'envelope'.

I have done it with every new engine I have owned whether diesel or petrol, turbo or normal. Machines may make them better, but common sense and a bit of thinking about it makes them better still.

Now if we could just find a way of getting the ancillaries, electronics and sub-systems to be as good.......

But then again the motor industry does kinda want us to buy new ones occasionally :-)

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I absolutely recommend the highest octane you can get your hands on, and to keep using it from day one. My S3 was handed over with £5 of 95 RON (oh so generous) in the tank, but the Tesco (and a Shell) are directly opposite the dealership. As such mine got brimmed with M99 straight away. I did experiment a little with Costco 97, but the car felt flatter and was definitely more hesitant and slower to pick up. Idle and low down torque isn't as good on lower octane fuel, and when you're asking for 'everything' top end (for example a fast overtake) you will find the car simply throws up its hands and dithers if you're on lower octane fuel. 

 

When mine was taken into the body shop, they 'very kindly' ran it low on fuel and then added £10 of Asda's finest... :(  I'll give it its due, the MPG wasn't bad - but mostly because it was basically having a tantrum because of 'falling' from 99. The engine was literally flat, lethargic and practically refused to work. I'm being a little dramatic of course, but trust me the difference between 99 and 95 is night and day. The car just doesn't like it at all. Bear in mind this makes sense, as you'll have spent a few tanks having the ECU advance the ignition to suit the new higher quality fuel. Suddenly you dump in 95 and the ECU 'panics' and retards the timing into the safety zone to prevent any damage to the head. 

 

Going the other way (95 or 97 > 99) is a bit more gradual and nowhere near as instantly noticeable. You'll feel a bit more grunt low down very quickly, but it's only really over the course of the tank (or two) that you sort of realise that the car is very willing, pulls hard from low down and gives you its all without hesitation at the top end. You will also see MPG rise over the next couple of tanks. In other words, it DOES make a huge difference, but not in a way where you fill up and then your eyes fall out of your head immediately. :D

 

My diesel Superb 150 is approximately six weeks away.  I filled my ten year old diesel Mazda with BP Ultimate last week and immediately noticed a sharper engine response even taking into account the warmer weather which always seems to help cars go better.  However, my normal practice is to fill the tank when there is a quarter remaining as I am not happy with running it too low, so I am expecting and hoping for yet further improvements with another tank.  To be fair, it was going really well before I even added the more expensive fuel.  It has been a truly brilliant car for me over ten years.  I hope the Superb will match it.  It will need to be a very, very good car to better it. 

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Many thanks for the comprehensive and detailed instructions. I've ordered my 1.4 TSI and am awaiting delvery so will be delighted to follow these instructions.

Also it's great to see someone prepared to sit and write such a lengthy update in this day and age of tweets and text speech. My grammar-fascist wasn't triggered once. (I'm also a grammar-hypocrite so there's no point flagging any of my mistakes, I'll just blame my phone). ;-)

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A very interesting read and have to admit I was reading it and thinking "hmm, I did not do that" and "oh, did not do that either"

 

For me I have never had mine over 4000RPM and it rarely sees over 3000RPM.  On an outing this evening I hard accelerated for me and it went nearly into 3000RPM for a fraction of a second as it changes up so fast, my normal driving normally sees it changing up at 2000RPM and then cruising at just under that on my normal commute there is very little opportunity for overtaking and some mornings I can be stuck in 5th most of the way :(.  That said I do tend to pick up speed quickly on the short 5 minutes I am on a dual carriageway. 

 

Whether this is good or bad in the long run I guess I will find out, but it responds instantly and tonight it was projecting 600 miles for a tank of fuel which is the highest I have ever seen it.

 

In terms of oil usage, am on about 5500 and have only put in just over half a litre, the car did not start using oil until it went past 2500 miles.

 

I guess the question is would I do things differently if I had read that before and the answer is possibly for some and probably not for others and not always through choice.  The roads around me lend themselves more towards the lower rev end than the higher end, I was told by Skoda to just drive it normally which is what I did and I guess coming from a car that had the get up and go of an asthmatic snail what I did seemed like it was fast at times and still does.

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Thanks for such an informative article. I like to run in a car but now realise I have got a few things wrong!

I'm about to take delivery of a 2.0 TSI DSG, my biggest problem will be patience, I don't do much more than 5k a year now I've retired, so it will take a good six months to fully run in!

Edited by Oldgits
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I know what you mean about the oil stick, when I topped up in Austria to come home in theory it was three quarters down the small section of the stick but then I only put in half a litre and it was pretty close to being back at the top so as you say clearly not a good indicator as the dealer said that it was 0.97 of a litre from the bottom of that section to the top. 

 

In terms of opening it up on Motorways the nearest one is an hours drive away, my commute is B roads for all bar the last couple of mile.  Have got a few trips to do for photography etc which are either Didcot, London or Hull so will certainly make sure it works on those trips but that is one of the hazards of living in Lincolnshire rubbish roads well that and pot hole filled roads.

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I just filled up again (busy week!). We'd covered 440 miles and achieved 35.1mpg for the tank. Bear in mind we do mostly short town miles, so I found that fantastic for a 'big' engine. On the way to filling up (8 miles each way, as I was doing a 'shop' too) I got 41mpg and then 40mpg on the way home, which is becoming a regular occurrence whether I try or not. The car has done nearly 4,000 miles now and the oil has moved a fraction down the dipstick. I'm conflicted about adding a top up (I do have a 1 litre bottle of Mobil1), as some say the dipstick is so poor it's easy to over fill unless you trickle / check / trickle / check again etc. Either way the car is a little peach and I have to admit it's really growing on me. 

 

Great news on the consumption figures, I wouldn't have thought you could reach those values in a 2.0TSI. 

I would have guessed that the average for this engine on the Superb would be around 28mpg...

 

Interesting on the type of petrol used, I'll keep this in mind.

I'm used to diesels, where there is no difference you can perceive between standard diesel (that's 51 cetane number) and extra-diesel (that's 55 cetane number).

 

Regarding oil consumption, is this still a fact with the 2.0TSI ? I thought this was fixed by introducing the EA888 engine

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A few people have asked for this thread, so here it is. I'm not a mechanic nor an engineer, but I do have a fair bit of experience in this area (on both ends of the spectrum) and am happy to share what I've learnt so far. More importantly, despite other threads existing on the topic it might be an opportune time for other TSI owners to chip in with their experiences. Please forgive my verbosity and any omissions.

 

Overall, I would start backwards by prefacing thus:

 

Despite fierce debate online, and many conflicting articles, I really don't think running in a modern engine is rocket science. In the good old days, the big old push rod engines were made by hand and would have a lot of 'hone marks' on the metal, including inside the cylinders. Bearing in mind there was only one kind of oil - mineral - and it didn't last very long, running in was quite a complex procedure. You needed to provide enough lubrication to stop the engine lunching itself, but not so much the new moving parts couldn't wear each other smooth in perfect mating unison. All that worn metal left thousands of tiny (and not so tiny!) fragments floating around in the oil, which would then call for a 'running in service' not long after you took delivery of the car. Being too gentle could result in glazed cylinders, badly seated piston rings and bore wash - all of which are bad and all of which would require a top end rebuild to correct. Conversely, being too hard on a new engine (or indeed any engine) will accelerate wear and can cause its own problems, including a life of drinking its own oil. 

 

These days engines are (mostly) made by robots, which have a massively more precise output and are also infinitely more conforming. Engine 1 will be pretty much identical to engine 2, etc. In fact with modern synthetic oils, even after 150,000 miles one can expect the original factory honing marks to still be present and undamaged. Everything is built to such fine tolerances that the engine is perfectly 'just so' right from the factory. Because of this, many marques these days don't have any special running in procedure. They just advise customers to drive like normal and forget about it, and that certainly doesn't seem to cause any real problems. 

 

VAG (including Škoda) do still include running-in advice, and as such it'd be prudent to follow it. Regardless of what the Internet says, the people who designed and built your engine are likely the ones who know how best to treat it. That said, nobody can pretend that Škoda manuals (especially) are very clear or detailed - especially when it comes to the topic of running-in. The guidelines are very general, open to interpretation, and - respectfully - often in some Czech version of 'Chinglish'.

 

Generally speaking though, the manual's suggestion involves not exceeding 3/4 of the rev range for the first 600 miles, and then progressively increasing the revs (including, shortly, trips to the red line when warm). The manual also advises not using full throttle, not labouring the engine at too low revs (manual gearboxes only, DSG would not allow this even in manual mode) and also not staying at constant speeds and revs for too long at a time during the running-in period. 

 

This makes sense, as the end result is a drive that allows the new engine to warm up, and then uses most of its rev range to help 'stretch in' the new engine and its many components. You're not just bedding in one thing, but rather thousands of complex moving components, all mated together 'just so'. Luckily, due to the aforementioned excellent manufacturing processes you won't find lots of swarf in your oil any more, and a running in oil change is no longer mandated. Your engine, regardless of how well built, is still a new beast however - and still requires some TLC. Here are my own observations, and I invite your own!

  • Make sure the oil is up to operating temperature (~80oC) before you start increasing the revs past around 2,500rpm.
  • That said, once the car is warm don't be scared to use the engine. The worst thing you can do is 'baby' it and just drive it everywhere on the low end torque, never seeing over 2,000rpm. This will be almost guaranteed to cause you problems with seating the new piston rings and can cause issues with oil consumption in the future. 
  • As per the manual, vary the revs. Your new engine will still be 'tight', and that is something you will physically feel as you start to explore the rev range over the weeks and even months after acquiring your new car. For example, there will be a slight resistance/hesitancy/flat spot in the power when you reach (for example) 3,000 or 4,000rpm. This is the engine resisting itself (to put it colloquially), and a manifestation of the parts claiming their space and rubbing up against each other under high load for the first time(s). Gently push through it, but gradually. 
  • Once you get past about 600 miles you can consider the car mostly run-in according to the manual. At this stage, if you have managed to restrain yourself thus far (and I hadn't!) you can start to push further up the rev range. Perhaps 5,000rpm when accelerating, before dropping into a higher gear for cruising, then 5,500rpm or 6,000rpm the next time, and so on. 

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat, but they all have the same end result if you're careful. Drive away soon after starting the engine, never leave it idling, don't thrash it when it's cold, and don't cruise in the same gear and at the same revs for long periods of time. Ideally, on delivery day you would have a route planned from the dealership and back home via the scenic route. Moderate hills, twisty roads, varying speed limits all interspersed with nice straights are the order of the day. That way you get to warm up the engine, and then give it a lot of varying loads, speeds and revs (30 in 2nd, 50 in 6th, then 40 in 3rd and 60 in 4th and so on). Once your oil is warm don't be afraid to push the loud pedal, certainly you want to be hitting 4,500rpm at points throughout your drive, or at least as that's what the manual recommends. 

 

Repetition kills new engines (at least figuratively, if not literally - eventually). Even if you have to drive on a motorway during running-in (can't you hit 'avoid motorways' on the sat nav for the ride home?), at least vary your speed and revs. Provided the engine is warm, give it some beans in a low gear up the slip road, then drop into 6th for a short while as you get your bearings on the new road. Then drop it to 5th or 4th (still at 70), and after ten minutes drop back to 60 in 4th, or 3rd, and keep changing gear up to 5th/6th and back down again. You are aiming to keep the engine 'guessing', and to not let it sit too still for too long.

 

One important tip which all camps seem to agree on, no matter how they word it, is using the throttle to slow down as well as speed up, as much as you can. I don't mean full bore accelerations (though some do advocate this), but rather refraining from using the brakes as much as you can. This isn't actually anything to do with the brake system, nor the 'new' pads and disks. Rather if you're regularly cycling your speed between 30/40/50/60/70 (or more) and back again, doing it using 'acceleration sense' (i.e. by adding and removing throttle, without using the brakes) puts a lot of varying loads on the new piston rings, which in turn helps them 'seat' better against the cylinder walls. In the long run that will aid low oil consumption and prevent glazing. Belting down the slip road as you speed up to 70mph in 3rd, then taking off the throttle completely to allow the car to slow itself to 60 while you merge onto the motorway behind a HGV in lane 1 is one example. Sitting in lane one or two (as circumstances dictate) at 70/whatever in a particular gear, drop a few cogs and give it some beans into the next lane over, and then ease off the gas so that the car naturally slows itself back down, re-adding the power as you get towards 50mph so that you bring yourself back up to 70... all the while varying the gears and revs you're sitting in. That kind of thing. 

 

Those of you lucky enough to have advanced driver training (IAM, RoSPA, emergency services) will already be ideally placed. Just take it for a brisk run out across your favourite routes, taking in plenty of B roads, some fast A roads and a lot of changes in pace and gradient. Firm, brisk, and smooth - but definitely progressive - are the order of the day. Every drive - certainly after the first couple of hundred miles - can be a chance to push the engine, and its rev counter, that little bit more. You will literally feel it loosening up over the days and weeks after delivery, just enjoy it. Soon (especially after the magic 2,500 miles) you'll have a nice smooth, relaxed and revvy motor. 

 

You do have to bear in mind that not only is your metal new, but so is your rubber (tyres) and so are your brakes. That said, you can almost fully run-in a new modern car just on the way home, provided you have a decent and long enough route. It's always one of my great pleasures, and generally in our case involves a day out in Wales (well away from certain well patrolled main roads). Your tyres won't be providing optimum grip for the first few hundred miles, and your brakes will take time to wear in properly. A few firm stops can aid this, but don't plan them for when you are approaching that stationary HGV or a brick wall! ;)

 

In summary (again), just drive the thing. Let it get warm, don't purposefully abuse it or bounce off the rev limiter in 2nd all day, but at the same time don't be too gentle. In the past I collected a new (diesel) car and - being young and naive - didn't quite get the gist of the whole 'drive it like you stole it / give it death' ethos. Having read online how white vans and hire cars are generally the fastest and loosest things on God's green earth, I literally ragged the poor bugger from cold, right to the red line over and over, and thought I was doing tremendously well. Until, that is, I realised even a year down the line it was slow and wheezy off the line compared to my brother's (identical, collected the same day) car and that I always got about 5mpg less than he on the same drives. I'd knackered the poor thing. Don't mistake progressive and hard driving with a lack of mechanical sympathy. Provided you get it warmed up, keep an eye on the fluids, and don't treat it like it's made of glass, you'll no doubt end up with a fine specimen which rewards you with years (and many tens of thousands of miles) of trouble free service. Just don't be too scared of that gas pedal... or a loud, high revving trip or three. ;)

 

Remember, OEMs take new engines off the line and subject them to 'torture tests'. The poor things are strapped to a dyno - or into a sample car - and revved through the red line, and kept at full speed and load (V-Max) for many days and even weeks on end without ever letting off the gas. They must get through some fuel!! However, they test them this way to ensure that the engines are capable of taking sustained high speed, high load service for customers, without coming to any harm. So, compared to that, you can't really do much damage... again, provided you warm it up first! Here's a nice example from a Ford test to give you an eye opener to finish:

 

Click me (YouTube link).

 

Sorry this is so long, but I hope it helps give those who asked some food for thought. Feel free to add your own experiences, which - in these modern times - may well mostly echo the 'I just followed the manual and it's been fine' ethos. :thumbup:

That is brilliant Rainmaker. It answers all I asked in an earlier posting. Spot on fella :thumbup:

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Thanks again guys. Pentaxian, again don't be worrying. Your car is clearly nicely run in else you'd be eating oil like the clappers and certainly wouldn't be achieving the excellent MPG you are. Mine are only suggestions, and of course a good blow-out / Italian tune up to clear the cobwebs once or twice a week does wonders (the car feels so effortlessly alive afterwards!). I should perhaps have made a point of saying in the OP that once the car is past the run in period you are certainly not obliged to keep driving it up and down the rev range all the time. For example I ran in almost exactly as per my OP, but now it's over I spend most of the week just pootling around in D and under 2,000rpm as that's where the car is most economical. That said, I do make sure I give it some beans on every trip where it's possible and I do take it for a damn good thrashing / pleasure drive at least once a week to keep the cobwebs at bay. :D

 

Norian, oil usage has supposedly been much reduced on this gen of the engine, you're right. It's still rather new, so not very easy to tell if they've been successful. That said, TSI engines use most oil during run-in and most of us on here are thousands of miles into the life of our engines and have barely used any oil at all (if any). Since the dipstick is so unreliable it's arguable that what it says one day isn't the same as the next, so I wouldn't say these engines 'use oil' in the way TSI engines used to. 

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Thanks for the great share!

I have a 1.4 TSI ACT 150 bhp manual transmission. The car is at ~ 600 km. I have been following the "gear suggestion" which sort of tells me to gear up to 6 at 70 kmh at below 2000 rpm rev.

I have a 250 km drive back from holiday and I will follow your advice. I like the way it accelerates anyway (yes! 150 bhp is pretty powerful after a 112 bhp golf :) )

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  • 4 weeks later...

That is brilliant Rainmaker. It answers all I asked in an earlier posting. Spot on fella :thumbup:

This post is so informative it ought to be in the pinned posts section. Just sayin'

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