Apr/Revo/Shark/JB1

[Johnski21]

Just wondering if any of the 230 owners had looked into/has had stage 1 maps from the companies listed above?

I've looked at them all and the performance/price obviously varies on each. I'm swaying towards the likes of the revo sps/shark set up where you can remove the map yourself come resale time etc.

My cars only done 1300 miles so won't be for a while but I think a remap would make such a difference. Only thing that puts me off is listening to the pitfalls of the dsg box potentially not being able to handle it in the long run

Any feedback appreciated guys.

[Mallettsmallett]

You can do the same with Super chips bluefin as well. And it's cheaper.

[pist0nbr0ke]

I read somewhere recently that dealers can now detect remaps even if reverted to 'standard' map before dealer visits, which would include STS and Bluefin I would think?

 

If warranty is a worry a tuning box such as DTUK may be a better way forward, as everything they affect is 'downstream' of the ecu and therefore nothing is changed within the ecu?

 

From here:

 

 

NOTE: As of 2013, the VW Group online dealer tools have the ability to see software on any modified vehicle. When a modified vehicle is plugged in online it is flagged on the system, this flag is called TD1 please read the below overview:

TD1is the VW Audi Group warranty ‘Flag’ for a vehicle that has been modified, this is something you should all be well aware of. If you’re not then please note; since the change in main dealer on-line diagnostic tools throughout 2013 performance software can and will be seen when a vehicle is plugged into online at a main dealer. This is the case even if it’s switched to ‘stock’ mode, it is possible although not confirmed that TD1 could be flagged if a vehicle has been flashed with any tool other than the OEM online system. Our recommendation to all our dealers is to make the vehicle owner aware that their warranty will be affected if they have software installed on their vehicle; this isn’t anything new as we’ve never claimed software is undetectable however prior to the new main dealer systems Revo software did tend to go unnoticed.

 

Edited 25 October, 2016 by skodaphile

[bytterga]

i was very close to order a remap because of the " turn back to original" and "undetectable" ad's but after having a chat with the guy he told me that remaps on vw and bmw are not "undetectable" anymore.

a little thinker if there shoud be trouble..

[Johnski21]

It's not so much the warranty that's an issue. I'm just wondering if anyone has installed those maps or was thinking of purchasing them.

Superchips don't offer a bluefin for the 230 as the ecu security is different apparently. They do offer a "tuning box" with 30bhp claimed gains. I've left them out of the thread due to the price/gains vs the others listed in the title.

I recently spoke to an Audi master tech who confirmed the td1 flag does come up with remaps and even with "tuning boxes" they can tell one has been added at some point

[pist0nbr0ke]

...even with "tuning boxes" they can tell one has been added at some point

 

Interesting - I wonder how?

 

I suppose if there was a minor fault code stored that might be one way to tell, (i.e one that had not caused a light on the dashboard and may not be obvious) but it would have to be very specific to identify it as being due to the installation of a tuning box. They would also have to prove it was related if they were going to blame it for a warranty issue, which could be difficult.

 

Removing the box and clearing any stored fault codes with VCDS before going to the dealer may well solve that, unless the cleared codes are still stored elsewhere and only visible to dealer equipment?

[Johnski21]

Interesting - I wonder how?

I suppose if there was a minor fault code stored that might be one way to tell, (i.e one that had not caused a light on the dashboard and may not be obvious) but it would have to be very specific to identify it as being due to the installation of a tuning box. They would also have to prove it was related if they were going to blame it for a warranty issue, which could be difficult.

Removing the box and clearing any stored fault codes with VCDS before going to the dealer may well solve that, unless the cleared codes are still stored elsewhere and only visible to dealer equipment?

He said they could detect that the fuelling and boost had been altered. It must leave some sort of trace but it sounded like they only checked things like this when there was a suspicion it had been done if warranty work was required to replace turbos and in result of engine failure etc

[themanwithnoaim]

Yep, far more detailed investigation is carried out in the expensive case of engine or turbo replacement.

However, information stored within a car is only ever in what us "old gits" called RAM and therefore, lost under total and prolonged power failure.

[SC03OTT]

I raised this point a few months ago after reading about someone who took their car to Audi for work. Audi could tell him the fastest speed he'd been, number of times launch control had been used and I think a few other things. If they can retrieve that info I'm willing to bet that can retrieve even more. Let's say the maximum recorded result of a sensor. If that result is sitting at 120% of what the maximum is meant to be, you'd probably have issues. This is really all speculation of course. It's a not a gauntlet I'd want to run though and we probably shouldn't be advising owners that these boxes are totally undetectable.

[pist0nbr0ke]

I doubt the tuning boxes are ever going to be 'totally undetectable' - for example, there is a minor amount of physical dismantling/refitting involved to fit some of them, this could result in scratching of surfaces on fixings or surrounds, or potentially broken clips worst case scenario - these could be spotted by an anorak!

 

However, as I understand it, they simply intercept a signal from the ECU to a sensor or controller, and modify it, telling the sensor or controller to increase boost or fueling etc. I'm no expert, but unless there are further readings then taken from other sensors after this process, there wont be any excessive readings to be recorded?

 

Long & short of it is buy a reputable unit or remap if you are going to do it, this should lessen (but obviously not remove) the chances of ever having to worry about dealers & warranty. I have actually heard of a main dealer offering an 'approved' remap, although I'm assuming it's the dealer standing over the warranty in that scenario, not Skoda UK...

[Auric Goldfinger]

I have actually heard of a main dealer offering an 'approved' remap, although I'm assuming it's the dealer standing over the warranty in that scenario, not Skoda UK...

 

Volvo offer "Pole Star " as an Approved Power gain and Ford do  "Mountune "  ( I think )

Edited 25 October, 2016 by Auric Goldfinger

[CHRIS ELLIS]

Revo on the mk3 230 is the nuts so my friend tells me.dsg handles it better than the manual so I've been told.

Edited 25 October, 2016 by CHRIS ELLIS

[GoneToBeemer]

Volvo offer "Pole Star " as an Approved Power gain and Ford do "Mountune " ( I think )

Yup - both warranty safe tuning options...and of course, twice the price!

[Wakey]

Revo on the mk3 230 is the nuts so my friend tells me.dsg handles it better than the manual so I've been told.

 

It's not the concern of how the dsg behaves with the remap; more the longevity of the clutch packs within

[Johnski21]

It's not the concern of how the dsg behaves with the remap; more the longevity of the clutch packs within

That's my concern too. Although abusing the car even without the remap can cause clutch failure I suppose. When I had my audi mapped the tech was able to tell that the "clutch protection" had been removed in 1st and 2nd by the map. Basically he said audi allow a certain amount of torque in 1st and 2nd so that the clutch is somewhat protected for longevity.

I suspect the skoda dsg box works the same and remaps remove the torque allowed to the box.

What map did your "friend" go for Chris, stage 1 or 2?

Edited 25 October, 2016 by Johnski21

[Johnski21]

I doubt the tuning boxes are ever going to be 'totally undetectable' - for example, there is a minor amount of physical dismantling/refitting involved to fit some of them, this could result in scratching of surfaces on fixings or surrounds, or potentially broken clips worst case scenario - these could be spotted by an anorak!

However, as I understand it, they simply intercept a signal from the ECU to a sensor or controller, and modify it, telling the sensor or controller to increase boost or fueling etc. I'm no expert, but unless there are further readings then taken from other sensors after this process, there wont be any excessive readings to be recorded?

Long & short of it is buy a reputable unit or remap if you are going to do it, this should lessen (but obviously not remove) the chances of ever having to worry about dealers & warranty. I have actually heard of a main dealer offering an 'approved' remap, although I'm assuming it's the dealer standing over the warranty in that scenario, not Skoda UK...

I doubt they would look for scratches etc but if the fueling and boost are being changed then surely the ecu is recording these values. Even if they are after the ecu?

[CHRIS ELLIS]

Stage 1 301.5 bhp 390 ft lbs.its a completely different car to drive.so I'm told.

[toni8b]

Who cares, most warranties are 2 years or so, afterwards, you pay for replacement parts, if needed. Even if you remap the new car, its not going to fail in 2 years.

Edited 25 October, 2016 by toni8b

[CHRIS ELLIS]

On another note I traded on my mk2 fl with a revo map to a skoda dealer.they sold it on after a week.so surely they must give it a years warranty to ever they sold it to.they even gave the guy my details so he could asked about the map on it.

[Ootohere]

VW Golf R's & Seat Leon Cupra 280's were failing within 2 years of launch without a Remap as were some that were remapped.

Luckily those that had them still standard were covered without question and those that had them remapped were in the lap of the gods.

 

The thing is if you want to modify just don't expect the Manufacturers Warranty to cover you but it might.

Do not sign a declaration when making a Warranty Claim saying that there has not been Non Factory approved Engine Management applied if there actually has, 

because basically you are committing fraud if found out.

The Warranty Underwriter might just ask you to withdraw your claim and pay their expenses for diagnosis and the repairs.

[Hedge]

Revo on the mk3 230 is the nuts so my friend tells me.dsg handles it better than the manual so I've been told.

 

 

I need to arrange a test drive with your 'friend'. 

[CHRIS ELLIS]

I'm sure that can be arranged.

[Orville]

Assume that you'll void the engine and transmission warranty before making the decision. Saying that, Skoda refused to cover my defective clutch under warranty despite the car being completely stock and having only covered 14K careful miles. I had to prove manufacturing-defect and fight them for 4-months before they coughed-up under threat of Legal action. Skoda's warranty sucks for items they consider "wear & tear", and from my experience Skoda will attempt everything possible to get out of valid warranty claims. Forget 3-years / 60K mile warranty for transmission - officially they are only covered for 6-months / 6K miles from new. Any hint of tuning and you'll have no chance.

[Mallettsmallett]

When I had my audi mapped the tech was able to tell that the "clutch protection" had been removed in 1st and 2nd by the map. Basically he said audi allow a certain amount of torque in 1st and 2nd so that the clutch is somewhat protected for longevity.

Manual is the same. You try getting off the line in first and second and you end up sounding like you're thrashing the pants off it. Get to third and you go 'aah, that's where the torque went!'

I would like to see an oem torque curve compared with one 'mapped out'. So far, the ones I've seen have virtually no difference below 2.5k

Edited 26 October, 2016 by Mallettsmallett

[Johnski21]

Stage 1 301.5 bhp 390 ft lbs.its a completely different car to drive.so I'm told.

How does it work Chris with the different modes? I.e is that 301bhp with sport engaged or in normal drive mode etc?