ACTION REQUIRED letter

[Breezy_Pete]

In fact when I look closer to the issue, it seems to me that the mentioned piece of software could actually be inside file that flashing software would download. In that case diff tool will register change even if no fueling/map change is performed. If that is true then only detailed look into map itself could reveal if changes to mapping (and thus performance) is done.

 

I believe somebody will do it eventually, but for now I can't find anything such on Internet.

 

Yeah, I imagine quite a few people will be interested to understand (if possible) the exact details of how the cheat worked, and how the fix has actually changed the mapping. 

 

Logging EGR operation with VCDS will be a much easier thing to do though.

[langers2k]

Yeah, I imagine quite a few people will be interested to understand (if possible) the exact details of how the cheat worked, and how the fix has actually changed the mapping. 

 

One chap wanted to know how the cheat worked on his VW Sharan so he did some work to reverse engine his ECU. There is an interesting talk here: 

 

It's mostly valid for vehicles with SCR (adblue) although I imagine the cheat decision logic will probably be quite similar for non-SCR vehicles. The biggest difference will be in how the NOx was reduced, probably by using more EGR at a guess...

[Breezy_Pete]

Great stuff, just watched that, thanks.

So for AdBlue equipped cars, it looks likely that the only significant difference post-fix is going to be increased use of AdBlue, no big deal.  That's good news.

Wish he'd done a non-SCR car/ECU too. Can only be a matter of time if it hasn't already been done by someone.

[Llanigraham]

No Ad-blue (Skoda) cars are included in the "fix".

[skoda1982]

SCR engines were released after the cheat was discovered so will not have the Cheat software   

[Breezy_Pete]

The video in post #127 describes an SCR car that had the cheat.  It was a VW, not a Skoda, admittedly, and in Germany I think, not the UK.

I don't know whether any Skodas anywhere in the world had SCR and the cheat, not sure whether Llanigraham has researched beyond the UK situation before making his claim; Graham, what's your info source? 

 

Are you referring only to the UK Skodas, skoda1982?

Edited 27 November, 2016 by Wino

[skoda1982]

The video in post #127 describes an SCR car that had the cheat.  It was a VW, not a Skoda, admittedly, and in Germany I think, not the UK.

I don't know whether any Skodas anywhere in the world had SCR and the cheat, not sure whether Llanigraham has researched beyond the UK situation before making his claim; Graham, what's your info source? 

 

Are you referring only to the UK Skodas, skoda1982?

yes it was only engines code EA 189 EU5 1.6 20l        EA288 EU5 and EU6 engines declared defeat device free 

Edited 27 November, 2016 by skoda1982

[Breezy_Pete]

If you look back up the thread, until langers2k's excellently informative video I was advocating looking at EGR function via VCDS logging, I hadn't even thought of looking at adblue injector duty cycles. Possibly I had it in the back of my mind that EGR function changes were more likely to be relevant to Skoda owners. :thumbup:

[Llanigraham]

The video in post #127 describes an SCR car that had the cheat.  It was a VW, not a Skoda, admittedly, and in Germany I think, not the UK.

I don't know whether any Skodas anywhere in the world had SCR and the cheat, not sure whether Llanigraham has researched beyond the UK situation before making his claim; Graham, what's your info source? 

 

Are you referring only to the UK Skodas, skoda1982?

 

The original "complaint" that listed what VAG engines that were affected.

The SCR engine was not in the list, or subsequent ones.

[Breezy_Pete]

Are you talking Skoda only?

If not, I guess Felix and his car in langers2k's video is fictional? Edit see at 42.01 in the video. 2013 EA189 with SCR. Looks real to me.

Edited 27 November, 2016 by Wino

[Ootohere]

I am liking my Euro 6 2.0TDI SCR / DSG very much, the Coasting function makes 60 mpg very easily achievable and the Ad-Blue is just perfect, 

the range was 7,000 miles on collection and 1,500 miles later is still showing 7,000 miles.

 

& there was VW in the US having to cheat with the Euro 5 TDI SCR because the Ad-Blue tanks would have had to be too large, or refills too often.

[Breezy_Pete]

It was a very poor decision by them!

[langers2k]

Graham, the cheat effected all ea189 engines.

The ea189 engine is available with and without SCR technology, even if the UK yeti didn't use SCR.

The ECU software is likely to be similar for both cases and the earlier video is the most indepth explanation I've seen of how the cheat worked. As mentioned, there will be obvious differences for the non-SCR case.

If you know of a similar study for the non-SCR engines I'd be interested to watch or read it. Until then I'll stick with the SCR explanation but expect the NOx reduction to be done using higher egr rates instead.

[Ootohere]

Wino,

That is almost an understatement considering the cost to the VW Group and many others.

 

I read just in the last couple of days that even before the Defeat Device Scandal in the USA, VW Group had the highest number of recalls per number of vehicles.

Then their good news was that Porsche had the lowest.

[Breezy_Pete]

It's high time the Premium Bonds bought me a Porsche...

[Ootohere]

there is lots of confusions, but after over 1 year what happened in the US is pretty clear.

Never is it mentioned who was in charge of VW in the US at the time, Stefan Jacoby 2007-2010 and then he went to head Volvo, but left due to 'ill health' & then went to GM Global and must know quite a lot being a VW man through and through and even a relation of the family that are the owners of the VW Group along with others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

Edited 27 November, 2016 by Offski

[Yety]

My extended warranty runs out 08/01/2017, and I casually checked the VOSA? website for recalls for my car - blow me there was one. Recall R/2011/171.

This was for 2.0 CR engines of a limited production run. Faulty material can cause leaks on the high pressure fuel injection pipes during the service life of the vehicle.

The remedial action is to add rubber balance weights to the pipes - basically vibration dampers.

The period was 01/01/2009 to 15/12/2011. My engine was built 08/12/2011. Out of curiosity I called into my favourite Skoda dealer this afternoon. Getting nowhere with the front desk, they wheeled out a tech who understood what I was on about. He pounced on the nearest desktop computer in reception and trawled around the Skoda system around my vehicle. He said that what I had turned up, was in fact true, but part of the "fix" was to retrofit these dampers as well as the software changes. A conversation then ensued when he said I couldn't have the dampers as I was going to refuse to accept the software changes. I suggested that perhaps that the "fix" entailed more than just removal of the defeat coding - possibly different fuelling strategies and that the dampers would be fitted to mitigate any possible vibration/ work hardening issues. I asked what he knew about increased EGR use - his eyes narrowed, brow furrowed and we moved outside the building. I explained that I was possibly more au fait than the usual punter about diesel engines and software mapping and we opened my bonnet to look at the engine. He asked internally the warranty guy, who authorised the supply and fitment of the the dampers for me, despite Skoda's instructions to fit only as part of the fix!! He very nearly said something that he changed his mind about!

We discussed EGR replacement on a 4x4, and we agreed that it was a pain and they didn't like to have to do it.

My next service will be the cam belt, water pump and various tensioner pulleys, and so I will sign my life away by refusing the "fix".

My take on this is Skoda did not effect the Recall R/2011/171 at the time as it was not safety related, but now it may come into play. Possibly different fuelling timing/pressures? The dealers obviously don't know what the fix is precisely, that would be too dangerous to let loose on the dealer network, but I think he had a fair idea what was involved. Very friendly and helpful, perhaps they wanted to get rid of me.