Don't quite know why you're so keen on seats turning into beds, but this is what you need.

Valid points in the OP but it has to be said it is exactly what my Dad says.

 

And no doubt something I'll say to my kids when I'm his age.

 

It's difficult for people to embrace change, not many people like leaving their comfort zones. We all have fond memories about our early driving days and the cars we were driving.

 

New cars aren't without their faults but lets face it as a general rule they are demonstrably better than the cars they replaced.

 

Luckily cars that will appeal are still out there, and for the large part are cheap too. Buy a modern car for the day-to-day stuff where reliability is key, then buy a childhood memory car for the weekend to tinker with.

I'm not sure what is being released now is demonstrably better, this is my point...why have all the additional bits to break such as stop/start, DMFs, cornering lights, electric power steering and so on when they are not improving the older feature much (eg EPS over hydraulic saves 1mpg but plays up more) and making more complexity to break?!

 

Some cars may have this sorted as the positive comments on the Auris above state; but day to day I see fairly new cars with faults that are not necessary and caused by "upgrades" (eg electric handbrake, potentiometer, DMF, stop/start and so on) that made the car worse in the long run.

 

I'm not one to hark back and say old things are better; I want the best of what can be done, not to go off and improve a function by 1% but make it fail expensively, sooner!

Don't quite know why you're so keen on seats turning into beds, but this is what you need.

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The old Maxi....great bed, not so sure of the car!!

 

I like this feature as I like to be spontaneous and be able to sleep when I want to; especially useful on cross-continent trips or if there is a great band or great beer at a pub..!  My old Lada Riva did the same and it was so useful, so often and made the car a cheap second home away from home without the costs of a camper.

 

They managed this excellent feature years ago; give me this over Bluetooth or touchscreens!

Edited 13 November, 20169 yr by mender

But don't forget the cars you remember as being simpler and less complicated were all much more advanced than their predecessors.

 

Fuel injection (vs. carburetors), electric ignition, synchromesh, power steering etc. etc. all pretty much a given now but much more complicated than what went before.

 

Progress. 

Edited 13 November, 20169 yr by silver1011

But don't forget the cars you remember as being simpler and less complicated were all much more advanced than their predecessors.

 

Fuel injection (vs. carburetors), electric ignition, synchromesh, power steering etc. etc. all pretty much a given now but much more complicated than what went before.

 

Progress. 

I'm all for it, if it provides a benefit

 

We reach a stage where we have used computer tech to refine the design, aerodynamics, economy, ergonomics etc-but after this where are we heading now?

 

In the last 15 years, we seem to have concentrated on safety (good, but not perfected when other factors are accounted for like media distraction and poorer visibility!), in-car electronic tech and a miniscule reduction in emissions in return for greater complexity.

 

We can make reliable fuel injection, power steering etc so why start messing with a winning formula by making the set up so sensitive that the EML light is on half the time and the newer EPS units give up after a few years, long before the older units?!

 

Depends on what you want from a car; I think we should have aerospace reliability by now and delete all known troublesome components-to me that is progress, learning from what works best.

 

My own cars have fuel injection, synchromesh, cats etc yet they have retained sensible proven working items like clutch cables, solid flywheels, throttle cables and so on.

They have been 100% reliable (300k to date in Peroduas on service items only) and great to use, what they lack is features I desire, such as ground clearance, the bed feature or some novel design features to make me excited.

 

The progress I want is with that, improving living with the car, not over-complicating it with parts (eg throttle cable vs potentiometer, connectors, cabling, module, ECU, actuator) for no benefit or giving me mobile FaceBook!!

 

This is the point, progress is progess when things improve-I work in the trade and see so many unnecessary expensive failures on parts that are not really needed but were implemented for "progress".....

 

The only thing to excite me in the last few years was the removable washable Captur seat covers 

They are not meant to be held onto for an extended period due to safety and emissions updates....they are just white goods with just a 10 year design life.

They are not meant to be held onto for an extended period due to safety and emissions updates....they are just white goods with just a 10 year design life.

 

That's true.

 

Also there are few genuinely bad cars these days to make the others look good.

But in the affordable bracket there are also very few cars with character.

 

So we have a lot of dull but competent cars to choose from.

 

A characterful car tends to not fulfil the majority of functions for the average buyer so it becomes niche and expensive.

That's true.

 

Also there are few genuinely bad cars these days to make the others look good.

But in the affordable bracket there are also very few cars with character.

 

So we have a lot of dull but competent cars to choose from.

 

A characterful car tends to not fulfil the majority of functions for the average buyer so it becomes niche and expensive.

New cars are 'pretty little things' these days and the spanner man has been basically bypassed in favour of those who were brought up on computers.

Knowledge is doubling every 12 months so yesterday is now 2hrs ago.

I suppose the crux of it is that new cars are designed to appeal to those who like 'new things' rather than those who like cars.

Consumerism in other words.

Yuk.

Us mere mortals are now living in the animal kingdom it seems to me while scientists seem to be off to another universe .

How are legislators able to understand what can now be achieved which was thought impossible before?.

There aren't enough Brian Cox s

We have a very modern car ( Yeti L&K ) & and old car that was bought as a summer toy ( mk2.5 MX5), and we both prefer the MX5.

Personally & I suspect that SWMBO would agree with me that if we had to get rid of 1 of them, it would be the Yeti, even though it is more practical than the 5.

 

The modern cars that everyone buys are no longer driven, they are so close to driving you, that you might as well take a taxi, it is only the exception and expensive cars that you have to drive and even those that don't have all the electronic trickery are very few.

 

I am all for safety and helping save the planet, but not at the cost of making driving lazy, or lining the pockets of the manufacturers who get away with lying about mpg & emissions.

 

I had to replace a bulb in the MX5 a few days ago - because it was an HB4 - £7 to replace, and less that 3 mins of my time,  I dare not even think about how much it will cost and the complete P.I.T.A. it will be to access to do the Yeti.

 

Modern changes are taking away the ability for DIY fixing, and not just cars,  

A simple bulb change, is now either a dismantling of the wheel arch, or undertray to get to it possibly worse replace the whole unit. With a PC, how many people here could get as a DOS prompt to sort out a PC, and how difficult is it to do that now ?

I did my MX5 timing belt replacement without any difficulty.

An example of less (complexity) is more (enjoyable) also.

What happened to k.i.s.s. ?.

Have to admit I really don't like the direction new cars are taking at the moment - as with others on here - as all we seem to read about is further steps towards self driving autonomy (active cruise, auto this that and the other, lane departure warning) and how in-car technology is now becoming the norm (inter-car connectivity, the internet of things, web browsing whilst driving etc.).  I'm not interested in the former and certainly not in the latter and despair at times when I read interviews with manufacturers who think this is the way forward, progress and the next big thing.

 

Sorry but I disagree...   and I wonder how many others do as well and simply turn all the new fangled stuff off as soon as they get in the car?

 

However, I'd hazard a mention that exterior and interior design is now probably more diverse than it has ever been and certainly more diverse than it was in the 90's for example...

inter-car connectivity, the internet of things, web browsing whilst driving etc.).

 

I wouldn't worry too much about that stuff. After the 3yr warranty is up I wouldn't expect it to work any more.

 

Does anyone really think car manufacturers are going to keep updating car computers so that they can work with whatever current phones /  tablets are around?

Nae chance. Car that are very heavily reliant on 'apps' of any kind are time-bombs. How hard is it going to be to sell a car at 10yr old when the ICE has completely stopped working because it doesn't talk to your phone any more?

 

"Sorry mate your car is a write off, nothing wrong with it but we cant upgrade it to V5.6"

 

Look at Smart TVs, some of them are starting to stop working with common apps because they re not maintained.

 

Plus I hate touchscreens in a car. I should be able to work the controls without looking, hard to do that on a featureless flat surface.

Have to admit I really don't like the direction new cars are taking at the moment - as with others on here - as all we seem to read about is further steps towards self driving autonomy (active cruise, auto this that and the other, lane departure warning) and how in-car technology is now becoming the norm (inter-car connectivity, the internet of things, web browsing whilst driving etc.).  I'm not interested in the former and certainly not in the latter and despair at times when I read interviews with manufacturers who think this is the way forward, progress and the next big thing.

 

Sorry but I disagree...   and I wonder how many others do as well and simply turn all the new fangled stuff off as soon as they get in the car?

 

However, I'd hazard a mention that exterior and interior design is now probably more diverse than it has ever been and certainly more diverse than it was in the 90's for example...

Great points

 

Most of the work I do is for owners of cars who are 50+ and have zero idea of what any of the lights on the dash mean or what functions the car has, rendering it all pointless; they can barely work the radio let alone navigate sub menus to change a non-RDS clock to winter time....  A common complaint is the radio is poor; often I find they have turned RDS-AF off or have put all the sound to one of the speakers, or treble to max for example!

 

The exteriors are more diverse but an utter nonsense in many ways; for example I do paint repairs and a typical trend now is to beef up the model or launch a pseudo-offroad version with black body plastics so it looks more rugged and protected than the standard body colour bumper model.  

However, it is fashion over sense, as you cannot properly mend grazed or damaged unpainted plastics, so for example a regular repair to a scuffed lower Qashqui rear bumper means a complete rear bumper shell and all the work of removal, sensors and refitting, the top half has to be be painted in the body colour as is does not separate from the black bit giving an insurance job of around £1000 for a little scuff....against a smart repair of £120 on a painted one!

I can bodge the black plastics with texturing and black paint but it is not a proper, permanent repair and can be damaged by hot jet washes.

 

This is what I'm on about- cars for the daft, Aspman hit it spot on!  The above is one example of dozens I could list where the end result is poor value for the owner.

Do we actually need the complexity of mk3 Superb xenon headlights or is it that other manufacturers do it so we are forced to compete.

Could you sell a simple car (if it's possible) these days?.

 

I had to replace a bulb in the MX5 a few days ago - because it was an HB4 - £7 to replace, and less that 3 mins of my time,  I dare not even think about how much it will cost and the complete P.I.T.A. it will be to access to do the Yeti.

 

Modern changes are taking away the ability for DIY fixing, and not just cars,  

A simple bulb change, is now either a dismantling of the wheel arch, or undertray to get to it possibly worse replace the whole unit. 

One of my biggest bug-bears and I feel it should be on type-approval that all main bulbs should be an easy DIY roadside fit, with spares located as standard in the car.

 

Not like Renault Meganes, Modus, Jag X-type and countless others where it is a huge disassembly job (or in handbook "dealer only").

 

In all of our cars, you can reach the back of the light easily and it is a 2 minute job; some new cars are the same eg the Suzuki Celerio, but.....

 

...hats off to VW on the new Polo for their outstanding design, one plug and two screws on the top of the light unit and the whole light slides out in from guides not bolts underneath in one piece so you can do the bulbs in the easiest way possible, see

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftWdQM29N0k

 

Now THAT is progress, fair play VW, lets have that on all cars please.

A 2007 civic had the abs pump in the way of the RH headlight and the dealer said they would have to do it for me.......just imagine!

Do we actually need the complexity of mk3 Superb xenon headlights or is it that other manufacturers do it so we are forced to compete.

Could you sell a simple car (if it's possible) these days?.

With all the bells and whistles of Xenons, cornering lights, adaptive lighting and all the new systems I have used, I have found nothing to beat a large clear-reflector headlight llens (oh how unfashionable!) and decent bulbs like +130% Philips Xtremes at around £7 ea, or if really keen the new H4 LEDS at around £70ea for clarity and patch-free lighting.  The rainbow edge and odd white light of many top end cars gives me a headache and gives no clear advantage over the above.  So why?  Fashion...!

 

These new lights are turning many little "pay for it yourself" bump jobs into a full-on insurance claim and all that goes with it as they are fragile and very expensive to replace.

 

I find the cornering lights on the new Mondeo a distracting nonsense on twisty road, couple that with the "double diagonal cross" effect of oncoming headlights through the heated windscreen filaments and night driving is horrid in the extreme.  Not progress.

A 2007 civic had the abs pump in the way of the RH headlight and the dealer said they would have to do it for me.......just imagine!

Cheeky, IIRC the low beam is accessed DIY by removing arch liner and going in from below, the high beam are ok from the bonnet with small hands...

 

Stupid though, see Polo system above-it's not rocket science and part of my OP-why not improve cars by things like this, not add complications to save a few g/km emissions!

Times ticking away on all of them I suspect.

I remember the 5th Gear expose comparing a Golf's simplicity with a Renault IIRC which needed front wheel access.

I remember as a young mechanic fitting clutches to Vauxhall's in 20 minutes. They later did away with the access panel on the bell housing and the moveable input shaft making it a sub frame off, gearbox out job...

Still rather have a modern car than a 1982 Cavalier though ☺

Way back in the late 70s IIRC Holden sold a 1.6 device called a Camira which I was once to endure .....on a motorway in top acceleration was not detectable .

It was promoted as "the 1.6 that thinks it's a 2.0" A very bad joke brought about by the energy crisis.

Our first example of white goods

Edited 15 November, 20169 yr by Ryeman

I remember as a young mechanic fitting clutches to Vauxhall's in 20 minutes. They later did away with the access panel on the bell housing and the moveable input shaft making it a sub frame off, gearbox out job...

Still rather have a modern car than a 1982 Cavalier though ☺

That was a really great idea by vauxhall,i used to love doing these clutches as a apprentice.