VAG dropping the Temp Gauge

[ituksw]

Bit surprised to see VW dropping the dash temperature gauge in favour of its red to late warning light? mates new Golf I drove I noticed its not got one and neither has his wifes new VW Polo. Some pictures I've seen of newer Skodas seem to have retained the temp gauge, can owners here who have the new octavia,fabia,superb confirm if Skoda has dropped the gauge? I'd not buy a car without one !

[moley]

The Wife's 09 plate Fabia doesn't have a temperature gauge, just a blue light when cold and red if too hot.  My 14 plate Octavia still has the gauge.

[Ootohere]

Is this on the most basic / lowest priced smaller engine models?

It has been the case with many vehicles that you get no Coolant Temp Gauge just a Blue light to up to temp and then a Red Warning.

 

As it is the Coolant on a gauge usually gets towards or at an indicated 90*oC within a few minutes and stays there unless it was to overheat, 

and there is nothing you can do anyway if overheating a needle rises towards the red area, other than slow down or stop and diagnose the fault.

Basically warning lights do the same as a needle on a gauge that is not accurate anyway.

Cold, gets to heat, stays there, starts to overheat, is too hot!

Coolant low or some other issue, small or more expensive.

Edited 26 November, 2016 by Offski

[Ryeman]

In the glass cockpit world now, it's never too late I suspect, cos the sensors will take over with a 'bong' and message then, if you continue to be disobedient, go into limp mode and finally stop.

It probably saves a quid

I may be wrong

[ituksw]

Is this on the most basic / lowest priced smaller engine models?

It has been the case with many vehicles that you get no Coolant Temp Gauge just a Blue light to up to temp and then a Red Warning.

 

As it is the Coolant on a gauge usually gets towards or at an indicated 90*oC within a few minutes and stays there unless it was to overheat, 

and there is nothing you can do anyway if overheating a needle rises towards the red area, other than slow down or stop and diagnose the fault.

Basically warning lights do the same as a needle on a gauge that is not accurate anyway.

Cold, gets to heat, stays there, starts to overheat, is too hot!

Coolant low or some other issue, small or more expensive.

Can only speak for the new VWs I have just driven, my mates VW Golf is a brand new 184bhp GTD and his wifes is the 1.4 Polo GT ones £20000 and the others nearer £30000 so not bottom end, yes i suppose its to save a quid, but the gauge tells you so much more, you can never have enough information, and being a Auto Electrician its a backward step for me

[Ryeman]

Can only speak for the new VWs I have just driven, my mates VW Golf is a brand new 184bhp GTD and his wifes is the 1.4 Polo GT ones £20000 and the others nearer £30000 so not bottom end, yes i suppose its to save a quid, but the gauge tells you so much more, you can never have enough information, and being a Auto Electrician its a backward step for me

We love our OLD analogue gauges

We are enthusiasts

Probably 75% couldn't care less and it's cheaper...........in any case we're seeing the end approaching it seems

[Ootohere]

ituksw,  

what could a gauge tell you that is so much more on the new TDI Diesel in the Golf GTD?

There will be an Oil Temp in the MFD and so much more to read.

 

Re the £20,000 1.4 Polo GT. are you sure that is what it is?

I suppose it will be the BlueGT with 150ps, you just drive them, they start and go and do what they are supposed to, run on 2 cylinders to save fuel, and tell you when doing that,

they get serviced and if there is a overheating issue they warn you,  also you can check the Oil Temp as it gets to 50*oC then up to operating temperature,

the coolant is at 90*oC or just below in minutes.

Edited 27 November, 2016 by Offski

[TriggerFish]

I'm in a 2016 116d Sport (my word it's awful!) at the moment while my e30 is in under warranty.

 

There's not even a cold light. I assume there's an overheat warning, but nothing seen.

 

The 420d I had for a while had an analogue oil temp. gauge, which is much more useful. How they can go from no info to the most helpful info between models baffles me.

 

As a side note, the gauge on my parent's Focus reads: low stop, 60, middle, 120, end stop. It usually sits just to the left of the middle, so a bit under 90. If you check it on the torque app, it reads 'middle' on the dash before the coolant is even at 60. There's no point in having a gauge if it's going to be so inaccurate! 

[Taylor93]

my 52 plate Toyota Yaris doesnt have a temp dial, just a Cold and then a Hot warning light, Im sure all the following models of Yaris had the same...

 

it worked for them, why wouldnt it work for other marques?

[RickTT]

My E60 didnt have one.. also not an way to see if via the default MFD either..

 

The MY16 superb and Rapid both have them,  you also can view the oil temp via the MFD..

[Clunkclick]

A basic way of telling whether anything is going  seriously wrong with the motive power. . . awl..  . ouch . . .VAG of today don't like that sort of customer empowerment.

 

That would enable the customer  to make an everyday  judgement on operation and condition of the motive power unit, independently of the idiot electronic system. And, it say's here, in the idiot sales blurb, that you're better off relying on some meaningless warning light or error code, which in all likelihood will activate when there's no fault and fail to activate when there is a real fault.

 

Anyway, as we all know, all current VAG vehicles  are "Sealed-for-life"  and impervious to all fault and adverse conditions or is that a steaming pile of marketing BS  ?

 

Roll-on the EU independent  bilateral trade deals.

 

N

 

 

[Ryeman]

When you first turn the ignition on you get an array of check lights but I'm not sure if there is one for coolant warning, there being so many of them.

[SuperbTWM]

I do like having a temp gauge, but as we all know, there is not a direct relationship between it and the actual coolant temperature. With that being the case it might as well just be a lamp on the dash

Edited 27 November, 2016 by SuperbTWM

[Clunkclick]

A rock steady and normal value temperature indication, is possibly the  one remaining way that you can discount those erroneous/ transitory electronic warning symbols that are for ever popping -up. Car digital electronics are still not at the stage  of reliability where the driver can put ime100% faith, 100% of the time in the digital electronic indicators.

 

If you didn't have that, you'd be pulling over to the side of the road every five minutes in compliance with the phoney warning symbols.

 

You can have a binnacle full of erroneous warning symbols just by disconnecting and re-connecting the battery, and yet the car is still driveable. An "In-range" temperature indication is an assurance to the driver, that the fundamentals are OK.  I bet there are a fair number on here that are doing just that at the moment i.e. driving around with a binnacle full of warning symbols - or at least, they will be up to the annual MOT.

 

The car would never be out of the dealerships, getting error code wipes.

 

Its getting ridiculuous now, the customer/owner is entitled to be able to exercise a degree of judgement over the use of the his car/asset and the Construction and Use Regs/ MOT allow for this. Digitisation of the control messaging denies this. Seems to me that VAG are set on a path to remove that independence of judgement.

 

 

Postscript

 

Honestly, with the fooky electronics/battery charging, on VAG/German cars you could  do with an analogue voltmeter/ammeter  too.

 

N

Edited 28 November, 2016 by Clunkclick

[Ryeman]

^^^ now we are left with the 'nanny' situation of sensors knowing what's best; eg battery protection and dynamic 'limp mode'/shut down.

You aren't supposed to know anything - we know what's best.

Remember the importance of battery age and thus voltage status if you want a 'clean' dash as a starting point.

[Clunkclick]

Agree.

If the on-board electronics were 500% more reliable and long-lifed, then maybe, you could take the chance. But that's going to require a step change in the quality and reliability of both the kit and its installation. And as to the current generation of electronics being capable of driving cars in place of the drivers . . . . . .

 

Even Fly by wire aircraft have retained a few basic analogue instruments to allow a semblance of control in the case of the failure of duplicated/triplicated digital systems. I don't think the auto drive cars will have triplicated systems.  So, I take it that VAG value their car travellers less than the average Squeezy Jet passenger ?

.

Not only that, but there needs to be rationalisation of the usuage of electronic devices.

 

Were are all familiar with the failure rate of door mirror, window winder and temperature/recirculation flap motors, sensors of all types and what they do to batteries and alternators, especially when the latter are not operating at their best. One wonders whether in pure engineering terms it would be more sensible to rely on purely mechanical devices. For instance, I'm struggling at the moment with an, as yet, undetermined source of a parasitic drain on which is flattenning the battery after a week of non-use of the car and what appears to be faiiled recirculation and temperature flap motors on my MK 1 Fab - the recirculation flap having shown a short error on VCDS since 2006. The official  fix is, i understand, horrendously expensive if taken to  main dealer (£100 for the parts and 1.5 hours of labour). However, it can be fixed quite simply, using a pure mechanical solution, an insulated peice of piano wire, connected to each of the flap quadrants, by-passing the electric motor, One asks, why wasn't it designed that way in the first place ?

 

Nick

Edited 28 November, 2016 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

I suspect the "Over-automation" approach was already "Determined" long ago :-

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/100271-coolant-temp-gauge/


Postscript

I suppose the determining statistic is that 7/10 cars are fleet, so all the extra down  time and  repair costs generated by an "Over- automated" design fall on the customers of industry and commerce. We are paying for car manufacturers "On-the-hoof" R & D .

 

N.

Edited 28 November, 2016 by Clunkclick

[Ryeman]

They would have liked fly-by-wire instead of hydraulics only I suspect

https://youtu.be/dCTrs9mKmhc

[Breezy_Pete]

Nick: I have a feeling that your temperature flap is a closed-loop, motor-controlled system so that you can set a temperature on the left-hand control, and it will 'go by itself' from then on to achieve and maintain that temperature; by blending heated/cooled/ambient air as required. 

With the 'old-fashioned' mechanically controlled flap, you had to turn it up full initially, then down once the cabin got unbearably hot, etc.

 

Progress? Maybe.

I'm so cave-dwelling, muscle-bound and stupid that I think electric windows are a totally unnecessary, pointless development.

Edited 28 November, 2016 by Wino

[stylo]

I do like having a temp gauge, but as we all know, there is not a direct relationship between it and the actual coolant temperature. With that being the case it might as well just be a lamp on the dash

 

This is the case for my Focus ST.  Our coolant gauge is technically "analogue" in form but from the experience of others, the needle only goes from COLD, OPERATING TEMP and OVERHEATING.

 

As they say, it prevents those with little knowledge of cars to question, "why is my needle moving past the operating temp when the car is not moving".  In this case, the less they know the better the needle in a constant position gives the user comfort their car is not overheating ... hence a blue and red light for coolant temp might actually suffice for a majority of drivers out there.

 

Having said that, a digital coolant and oil temp gauge for me please

[Ryeman]

I remember the old temp probe was in the top tank and would lose contact with the water if there was a sudden leak and thus not actually give a gauge warning........and how many actual kept looking in any case?.

Anyone know where the modern sensor is located ?.

[Fabia00]

I prefer to still have a manual temp gauge even though it is waited to always read 90 in normal conditions to stop people panicking that it has gone to 100 and that the water is boiling. The main reason being is it can help to identify issues such as if a thermostat is stuck etc - my Smart had an issue where the gauge would not go above 60 unless sat in traffic where it would go to above 90 and the fan would kick in and this was down to a lazy thermostat. Had there been no gauge I don't think it would have been picked up.

The lights etc at least on the Yaris the cold light goes off at anything above 54 degrees water temp according to scan gauge I have so therefore it could be running cool if the stat were to go. 

I think it it is a silly thing to cut to save a few pence. 

[Ryeman]

I suspect the engine warning light comes on when any sensor fails or a reading falls outside the design parameters.

Go to dealer with money, do not pass dealership.

[DanHarper]

My GF asked me why the water level kept going up and down on her car. I was puzzled at first so asked her to show me... it was the temperature gauge. Her previous 2005 Yaris didn't have one, the only car save for the instructors car she'd ever driven.

 

I doubt many pay much attention to the temperature gauge, and don't VWs gauges only have 4 settings anyway? Cold, Warm, Up to Temp, Your HG has gone.

[Aspman]

Temp gauge is missing from many cars now. Mazda has a blue 'cold' lamp and I guess it'll have an overheat warning too.

 

I did/do like a dial. Not a great fan of electronic whizz bangery.

 

Don't like LED fuel gauges either.