Dash cams/Data protection ?

[spinifex]

56 minutes ago, FluffyEyeball said:

The filming of outside things from inside your house is a difference topic and has different laws surrounding it depending on whats being filmed. If you were to deliberately and knowingly film people and/or their property in such a way you would be contravening their human right(s) to privacy.

 

I understand what you're saying - and while I'm not legally trained and I'm sure the laws are different in every country, based on this premise, this would mean that every crime "caught" by various CCTVs footage, would be inadmissible in courts, as it's a violation of privacy rights.

 

The analogy of a camera in your coat is similar, I admit, but in fairness, we're talking about a camera that is specifically used for PROTECTING your property, ie the car, against damage..... versus a SPY camera mounted on a piece of clothing, which is ONLY used for spying purposes.

[mrj2k8]

5 hours ago, FluffyEyeball said:

 

Your manner is becoming increasingly patronising and antagonising, there's no need for it. 

 

Perhaps you could save the trouble of anyone seeking legal advice and, with your LLB, advise us all on the correct law(s) regarding the use of recording equipment on private property; and provide suitable evidence to match?

 

Your answer is there is no law!

 

RRG is a private company that allows the public access to their premises, in some cases to perform a service for payment (i:e) maintenance of your vehicle.

 

Now if they stipulate contractually that by them performing the aforementioned service that they can disconnect your CAM then fair play you sign your rights away when you put your X on the line, but of course that would be down to the owners of RRG and not an employee of the company to make that decision.

 

Now yes they can refuse to provide a service if they choose, but then they have the power to do that anyhow, You also have the right to choose who performs the service on your car.

 

As for my manner if its not what you like to hear scroll on by, your replies are a mix of pseudo Google searching and a skewed version of what you interpret as law. 

 

Now lastly as previously mentioned there is no law, its a civil matter between a private company and an individual, Data protection doesn't come into it and nor do your human rights!.

 

Now that's £200 please ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gRoberts]

How does this apply to bailiffs and police with body cams?

 

Could you refuse entry to your business on the terms that no recording is allowed?

 

It's for their/your protection after all.

[FluffyEyeball]

 

5 hours ago, mrj2k8 said:

 

Your answer is there is no law!

 

RRG is a private company that allows the public access to their premises, in some cases to perform a service for payment (i:e) maintenance of your vehicle.

 

Now if they stipulate contractually that by them performing the aforementioned service that they can disconnect your CAM then fair play you sign your rights away when you put your X on the line, but of course that would be down to the owners of RRG and not an employee of the company to make that decision.

 

Now yes they can refuse to provide a service if they choose, but then they have the power to do that anyhow, You also have the right to choose who performs the service on your car.

 

As for my manner if its not what you like to hear scroll on by, your replies are a mix of pseudo Google searching and a skewed version of what you interpret as law. 

 

Now lastly as previously mentioned there is no law, its a civil matter between a private company and an individual, Data protection doesn't come into it and nor do your human rights!.

 

Now that's £200 please ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you put the X on the line, whatever you have agree'd to can be done by the workshop staff unless it states otherwise. This would be documented on it for the customer to read prior to signing. 

 

The owner has the right, under UK law, to remove the property that is doing the recording (i.e. your vehicle with it's running dash cam) if the owner of said property and/or camera does no obey the request to cease it. As you would be on the end of phone, the workshop staff, acting on behalf of and with permission from the owner, could leave your vehicle parked somewhere off their property and request you attend to it. Just as if you were filming but refused to stop or leave on request, they could use reasonable force to remove you from the premises too.

 

5 hours ago, gRoberts said:

How does this apply to bailiffs and police with body cams?

 

Could you refuse entry to your business on the terms that no recording is allowed?

 

It's for their/your protection after all.

That's an interesting point; maybe because police need a warrant to enter private property when permission has been denied (?I think), or there is a crime currently in progress (emergency situation) the warrant would cover the use of a body cam too?

 

9 hours ago, spinifex said:

 

I understand what you're saying - and while I'm not legally trained and I'm sure the laws are different in every country, based on this premise, this would mean that every crime "caught" by various CCTVs footage, would be inadmissible in courts, as it's a violation of privacy rights.

 

The analogy of a camera in your coat is similar, I admit, but in fairness, we're talking about a camera that is specifically used for PROTECTING your property, ie the car, against damage..... versus a SPY camera mounted on a piece of clothing, which is ONLY used for spying purposes.

Just from looking quickly I think the rules governing domestic vs state/industrial CCTV are different. If you operate domestic CCTV inappropriately e.g. pointing it into the neighbours bedroom, but happened to capture a murder; would it be disregarded? I don't know.. However you could still, I think, end up in bother for your incorrect use of it and the breach of your neighbours privacy.

[spinifex]

Interesting thread this - and despite the heated tone from some members, it's still an interesting point to ponder.

 

Yes - Google-law-degrees aren't worth the LCD screen they're displayed on..... but still.......

 

I have no legal training and don't pretend to have...... and the laws are different in every country or locality....

 

BUT.... from a hypothetical viewpoint, for the most part, the recording on a dash-cam would usually ONLY occur while the ignition is switched on.... unless someone has it wired or running on permanent power (parking mode is it?)

Now, most people I would suspect, would only have it functioning in ignition-on mode, and the amount of workshop goings-on that it would therefore record would be minimal.

In MOST instances, it would only be recording a test-drive, or the simple drive in-out of the workshop to the car park.

 

If a workshop does NOT want/agree to any recording being performed, they MUST advise the customer PRIOR to accepting the job (whether that be by specific mention verbally, or by a clause in the Ts & Cs the customer signs when leaving the vehicle).

If they fail to notify a customer of that point, then they have NO RIGHT to disconnect or disable any recording equipment without prior approval of the customer, if it's not directly involved in the service/job that is being provided to the customer.

If a customer fails to notice the condition in the Ts & Cs and still signs, then it's their own fault... but the Ts & Cs must then clearly define what the workshop staff will do in the instance that a recording device is discovered in the vehicle (ie a specific mention of staff either disabling or disconnecting it, or simply stop-work on the vehicle until the owner returns and disables it themself)

 

It's the same premise as any other valuable item left inside a car while at a workshop.  If I leave my laptop plugged in charging on the passenger seat while getting a simple oil-change, I expect NOBODY to touch it while it's at the workshop.... nobody has any need to touch it, it has nothing to do with the service, and disconnecting it may potentially cause data-loss.

 

[mrj2k8]

8 hours ago, FluffyEyeball said:

 

If you put the X on the line, whatever you have agree'd to can be done by the workshop staff unless it states otherwise. This would be documented on it for the customer to read prior to signing. 

 

The owner has the right, under UK law, to remove the property that is doing the recording (i.e. your vehicle with it's running dash cam) if the owner of said property and/or camera does no obey the request to cease it. As you would be on the end of phone, the workshop staff, acting on behalf of and with permission from the owner, could leave your vehicle parked somewhere off their property and request you attend to it. Just as if you were filming but refused to stop or leave on request, they could use reasonable force to remove you from the premises too.

 

That's an interesting point; maybe because police need a warrant to enter private property when permission has been denied (?I think), or there is a crime currently in progress (emergency situation) the warrant would cover the use of a body cam too?

 

Just from looking quickly I think the rules governing domestic vs state/industrial CCTV are different. If you operate domestic CCTV inappropriately e.g. pointing it into the neighbours bedroom, but happened to capture a murder; would it be disregarded? I don't know.. However you could still, I think, end up in bother for your incorrect use of it and the breach of your neighbours privacy.

Fluffy

 

What part of there is no law do you not understand.

 

One minute I'm taking my car for a service the next I'm scrapping with the spanner monkeys because I won't turn my Dash Cam off, get real.

 

Now as previously mentioned any private business has the right to set any terms & conditions of service it sees fit as long as they are legal its upto them. 

 

The rest of your post is typical Google gibberish. 

[FluffyEyeball]

15 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

Fluffy

 

What part of there is no law do you not understand.

 

One minute I'm taking my car for a service the next I'm scrapping with the spanner monkeys because I won't turn my Dash Cam off, get real.

 

Now as previously mentioned any private business has the right to set any terms & conditions of service it sees fit as long as they are legal its upto them. 

 

The rest of your post is typical Google gibberish. 

 

"Spanner monkeys"?? How rude and patronising of you.

 

This will be my last direct reply to anything you post on this forum. Your manner is disgusting and highly offensive, I believe what you claim to be incorrect and I do not believe you have the qualification(s) you say you have. 

 

You have reduced an otherwise civil discusion and debate into offensive name calling and derogatory remarks, and you will be reported for such.

[mrj2k8]

57 minutes ago, FluffyEyeball said:

 

"Spanner monkeys"?? How rude and patronising of you.

 

This will be my last direct reply to anything you post on this forum. Your manner is disgusting and highly offensive, I believe what you claim to be incorrect and I do not believe you have the qualification(s) you say you have. 

 

You have reduced an otherwise civil discusion and debate into offensive name calling and derogatory remarks, and you will be reported for such.

 

Thank god its like arguing with an 8 year old.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

12 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

 

Thank god its like arguing with an 8 year old.

 

The irony of a childish insult...

[Llanigraham]

23 hours ago, spinifex said:

 

Presumably if the dashcam is INSIDE the vehicle, it's actually on YOUR property, so this argument is invalid.

If you were walking around their workshop with a handycam recording stuff, then fair enough they can ask you to stop recording.

But a camera MOUNTED inside your vehicle, which has NOTHING to do with the reason the car happens to be at the workshop, then they cannot stop you from recording.

The camera is on YOUR private property, and you can record whatever you damn-well please.

The best the workshop can do is throw a towel over the outside of the windscreen to cover the lens - but they can't do anything about the microphone (if fitted) as that would be inside the vehicle as well.

Removing the power to the camera, when it has nothing to do with a simple oil/filter change or wheel alignment, for example, is tantamount to damaging your property, as they have NO legal right nor reason to touch that cable/camera.

 

This is the same argument as saying "you cannot stand inside your house filming something going on outside your window"....

 

Wrong. A car is a legally described as a "chattel" and is not "private property". Therefore the garage owner is legally allowed to tell you to turn it off or remove it.

 

[Llanigraham]

26 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

 

Thank god its like arguing with an 8 year old.

 

As someone who purports to be legally trained you really need to control your rudeness!

[spinifex]

Wow - you all need to take a chill-pill and calmTF down !!!

Seriously, I'm glad most of you people are not in Australia - "spanner monkeys" is a slang expression and it's neither offensive nor insulting and anyone who thinks it is, seriously needs to harden up and apply some maturity to their lives.

 

Taking offence at that comment, and then complaining about it in such a manner is just childish and inappropriate for this discussion..... which is what this is.... a discussion.
A frank and open airing of personal views, personal knowledge and personal opinions.  The legality &/or accuracy (or otherwise) of those views, opinions or statements is what needs to be discussed in a polite and friendly manner.

I've always found Briskoda to be very forthcoming and friendly with information and viewpoints and assistance whenever I've asked anything... and I enjoy coming here to read all the forums.

 

But seriously, if it's going to descend to this childishness between members on something so trivial as this, then maybe not......

 

To whoever it was calling someone's qualifications into question - that's really something for a private message.  If the guy says he has a law degree and is stating legal doctrine, then either do some PROPER FACTUAL research yourself to debunk his comments, or keep quiet and accept that what he says is accurate.

Saying "I don't believe you have that qualification" is childish, unnecessary, and without you proving you are correct, is downright rude.  Grow up.

This person does not need to prove their qualification to you, nor does he need to provide any specific documentation or statutes to prove his claims.  This is presumably what he gets paid for, so unless you're wanting to PAY for his services/information, I suggest you take it on the chin, and accept what he's saying is true unless you can prove otherwise.

Yes, it would be nice if he linked to a particular piece of legislation to prove his point, but he doesn't NEED to....  you can do your own research, just as any of us can do.

 

You can have a POLITE argument of viewpoints, but please don't degrade yourselves by stooping to such subterranean levels.

 

PS (I have my own personal opinion of this topic in question, as I've stated in this thread - but I have no affiliation or personal connection to any of the other members arguing here - I'm not for nor against any particular party - so I'm not "taking sides" as to the accuracy of views stated - just taking exception to the rudeness of the interactions between members)

 

Edited 3 March, 2017 by spinifex

[john999boy]

Let's stay focused on the topic and please refrain from getting embroiled in irrelevant side issues as it only leads to Staff intervention .

[pist0nbr0ke]

PMSL at most of this thread.

 

I have dash cams. I couldn't give a flying turd if a 'techician' or other garage employee disconnected them. I tend to forget they are even there. Ironically, I only have them as defence against the ever increasing band of dash cam warriors who see themselves as the police, and take a dislike to anyone daring to overtake or exceed 45mph on an A road 

 

Let's face it, what 'damage', likely to occur in a garage or on a test drive, is a front or rear facing camera actually going to record?! 

 

Scuffed alloys? Nah, doubt it.

 

Damage to any panel other than bonnet, boot or possibly bumpers? No...

 

Wheel bolts or a timing belt left loose? Nope!

 

If it's crashed, it will be obvious...

 

If you are that worried, service the car yourself or go elsewhere. Simples.

 

All this BS about rights etc...try driving in to an MOD site and telling them it's tough because the camera is inside your car and therefore on private property...

[StevesTruck]

On 28/02/2017 at 14:41, James@RRGRochdale said:

It doesn't have to be a case of "if we're not happy" it should be a compromise between customer and the company that: you are not allowed to record from your vehicle whilst it's in our workshop. 

 

There needs to be an understanding and a bit of mutual respect. Not all garages are out to rip people off or abuse their customers cars.

 

There's dishonesty in every trade yet the motor trade doesn't half cop for a large portion of the bashing. 

 

Can you imagine filming other tradesmen at work? Or a doctor, dentist etc They'd never work for you again! Look at how these idiots portray the police when they pull their phones out. Always a one sided account that hardly ever tells both sides in an unbiased manner.

 

Just to add - we have cctv on both the inside and outside of our business property with notifications all over our site. If something happens to a customers vehicle on site then our employers are usually already watching us. 

So why people feel the need to carry out their own investigative work is beyond me?

 

Shopfitter/merchandiser speaking - I'm always on cctv at work. 

 

I generally go with the rule that the higher a trade is paid, the more you have to watch them to make sure they're actually doing what they're getting paid to.