MOT nightmare

[toddywow]

hi all, forgive me if I am posting in the wrong area ETC.

 

so Its time for my MOT on my 2009 VRS diesel CR170 and I simply cant get it to pass.

 

since owning it (1 year 4 months) I have had to replace... throttle actuator, egr valve, abs unit and  I've needed a new turbo 3 months ago!

it keeps failing the Smoke test and im at my wits end trying to figure out why, my garage has no clue and even suggested going somewhere else?! it was last there for 3 days in which they claimed they've cleaned everything and was close to taking all of my intercooler of and cleaning that out before I stopped them, at one point they wanted to replace my injectors which made me stop the whole operation and just wait before I really commit to something that might not even solve the issue.

 

my next step would maybe be a carbon cleaning service? can anyone vouch for these services in regard ? 

 

as for my car it has a stage one shark performance remap and a DPF delete (still passes MOT) would these be causing more smoke that usual? after I got my turbo replaced I actually thought my  car smoked less! and the first mot it had last year it passed fine. the amount of REDEX and like for like fuel additives and sprays through the air box I've added to my car is unbelievable and still no progress on the reduction of smoke.

 

the car drives fine, it pulls hard revs freely I have absolutely no problems with the performance I only thought the smoke that comes out when you gave it a boot full was normal, it doesn't seem to be any more or less than any other car on the road. would taking it for a blast before a while you wait test help my situation out?

 

any questions please ask away ill try my best to answer id like to think im not completely clueless about cars and stuff.

 

thanks in advance

 

-Todd

 

 

[Rustynuts]

2 minutes ago, toddywow said:

 

 

so Its time for my MOT on my 2009 VRS diesel CR170 and I simply cant get it to pass.

 

 

as for my car it has a stage one shark performance remap and a DPF delete (still passes MOT) would these be causing more smoke that usual?

 

 

The whole idea of a DPF is to stop a diesel car from producing soot out of the exhaust. If it's smoking, then I should think not having a DPF would be something to do with it. There are different levels of particulate density for DPF and non DPF cars, and you're trying to hit a level your car isn't set up to achieve.

[seriesdriver]

Hi I take it you get the car fully warmed up before they mot it how high are the smoke  readings ? are they a bit over or very high it may help someone who knows more to help you. 

[toddywow]

10 minutes ago, Rustynuts said:

 

The whole idea of a DPF is to stop a diesel car from producing soot out of the exhaust. If it's smoking, then I should think not having a DPF would be something to do with it. There are different levels of particulate density for DPF and non DPF cars, and you're trying to hit a level your car isn't set up to achieve.

thanks for the Reply Rustynuts, when I got the car MOT'd last year the car passed. it has been modified this way since I owned the vehicle. sorry I should of made this clear.

[Vegasphil]

Who did the MOT last year then? Take it there? 

 

Failing that the CR seems to do alright with the DPF installed. Why did you get rid?

 

Mine was MOT'd at Skoda last week with the shark map and "passed" the smoke test as aborted - "too clean" on the emissions checklist! 

[CWARD]

Try some BG244 or Archoil 6400-D but your will need time for it clean through the fuel system as in a tank of fuel driven carefully. I used it in my old Mondeo when it scrapped a pass at 2.94 on the third attempt. Using it annually it kept to around 0.14-0.16 which equates to a fast pass. 

A remap might cause over-fuelling if done badly but Shark have a good reputation so wouldn't have though this could be the issue. 

You could also try he Italian tune up if you've been dawdling around in it as you exhaust pipe could also be full of soot. 

[toddywow]

17 minutes ago, Vegasphil said:

Who did the MOT last year then? Take it there? 

 

Failing that the CR seems to do alright with the DPF installed. Why did you get rid?

 

Mine was MOT'd at Skoda last week with the shark map and "passed" the smoke test as aborted - "too clean" on the emissions checklist! 

I purchased the car already modified, I was only aware the car was remapped and until I spoke with shark on the phone asking about the map, starting to think it was a bad idea buying the car already modified. and since then the garage I went too has changed ownership I am however thinking of returning and hoping the garage staff are still there.

[toddywow]

9 minutes ago, CWARD said:

Try some BG244 or Archoil 6400-D but your will need time for it clean through the fuel system as in a tank of fuel driven carefully. I used it in my old Mondeo when it scrapped a pass at 2.94 on the third attempt. Using it annually it kept to around 0.14-0.16 which equates to a fast pass. 

A remap might cause over-fuelling if done badly but Shark have a good reputation so wouldn't have though this could be the issue. 

You could also try he Italian tune up if you've been dawdling around in it as you exhaust pipe could also be full of soot. 

thanks for the info I will look into BG244 and the 6400D. as for the Italian tune up i think I've tried that plenty of times lol

[TheClient]

Detail of the smoke test under the below post and thresholds if you don't know. It would be good to know that they followed that procedure and what your readings are. The OP of this thread also had the problem however their car is earlier so presumably PD TDI. The OP hasn't updated the thread for resolution unfortunately.

 

 

[Rustynuts]

1 minute ago, TheClient said:

Detail of the smoke test under the below post and thresholds if you don't know. It would be good to know that they followed that procedure and what your readings are. The OP of this thread also had the problem however their car is earlier so presumably PD TDI. The OP hasn't updated the thread for resolution unfortunately.

 

He says in the first post that it's a 170 CR engine.

 

[TheClient]

1 minute ago, Rustynuts said:

 

Yep, I acknowledged. Is the smoke test differentiated CR / PD then> 

Edited 9 March, 2017 by TheClient

[octyal]

Haven't they been having issues with the Siemens injectors on the CR engines? Could be part of the problem, I would suggest a leak off test of the injectors, see what's going on.

[Rustynuts]

Yep, the CR engine came in after the cut off date for the new mot test, so the level of soot needed to pass the test is about half of the PD engine.

[TheClient]

8 minutes ago, Rustynuts said:

Yep, the CR engine came in after the cut off date for the new mot test, so the level of soot needed to pass the test is about half of the PD engine.

Out of interest, where is the new diesel smoke test and thresholds documented? I don't normally do diesels - hence my link to a previous thread but now interested.

[Rustynuts]

5 minutes ago, TheClient said:

Out of interest, where is the new diesel smoke test and thresholds documented? I don't normally do diesels - hence my link to a previous thread but now interested.

 

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/m4s07000404.htm

[toddywow]

thanks for all of the info everyone.

 

as for results I never got any from the garage just "its no where near mate smoke all over"

ill see If I can get them from them tomorrow.

 

im going to another garage over the weekend and I will update the this thread when I have some results. ill ask them about the injectors as well.

Edited 9 March, 2017 by toddywow

[Rustynuts]

2 minutes ago, toddywow said:

 

 

as for results I never got any from the garage just "its no where near mate smoke all over"

ill see If I can get them from them tomorrow.

 

That's not a valid test result. They're obliged to test it and give you a printout, only after the density test are they able to use the visual test of volume of smoke to fail it as far as I can read from the test procedure.

[TheClient]

30 minutes ago, Rustynuts said:

 

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/m4s07000404.htm

Brilliant. So the testing and procedure all look identical and there is a fast path pass still at 1.5m-1 for first test, it is just that the limit on the 6 averages runs is 1.5m-1 rather than 3.0m-1 for post July 2008 cars..

 

Maybe they've just failed on the appearance of smoke obscuring vision etc. - they do that can't they?

[Rustynuts]

The visual smoke check is number 4 on the test procedure, and you're obliged to go through 1, 2, 3 before that. If the Fast Pass is okay then it prompts you to move straight to number 4 for a visual check, so you can't just do number 4 without at least attempting the metered smoke density test and getting a valid (or invalid) reading I presume.

[silver1011]

Diesels tend to smoke more as they age and the mileage increases.

 

A stage 1 remap will increase wear rates on the engine over time and therefore the level of smoke emitted out of the exhaust. This might suggest why the car has passed previous MOT's but is struggling now.

 

Unfortunately the DPF designed to catch all of the soot is no longer present so everything is arriving at the end of the exhaust where the MOT probe is inserted.

 

I'm assuming the garage are aware the DPF has been removed? If they wanted to be awkward then they could fail it on this alone.

 

If you really are struggling then it might be worth having an aftermarket DPF fitted, the car re-coded and then MOT'd. After that you can remove it again until the next MOT. 

[Guest]

At no point has anyone mentioned the condition of the air filter...

[toddywow]

 

11 hours ago, MicMac said:

At no point has anyone mentioned the condition of the air filter...

air filter looks fine, is there a way I can test to see it is still in good condition?

[toddywow]

11 hours ago, silver1011 said:

Diesels tend to smoke more as they age and the mileage increases.

 

A stage 1 remap will increase wear rates on the engine over time and therefore the level of smoke emitted out of the exhaust. This might suggest why the car has passed previous MOT's but is struggling now.

 

Unfortunately the DPF designed to catch all of the soot is no longer present so everything is arriving at the end of the exhaust where the MOT probe is inserted.

 

I'm assuming the garage are aware the DPF has been removed? If they wanted to be awkward then they could fail it on this alone.

 

If you really are struggling then it might be worth having an aftermarket DPF fitted, the car re-coded and then MOT'd. After that you can remove it again until the next MOT. 

it has crossed my mind to get a new dpf fitted and coded ETC but I predict this cost to be outrageous? the garage is aware its been modified but it is passing the visual DPF inspection. its off somewhere new today and im going to see what happens maybe ill ask really nicely if they can somehow not put the smoke meter in as far or something if that is even possible haha

 

thanks for all the feedback

[Guest]

Other than a visual check and without specialized air flow measuring equipment no.

 

If it looks fine and no large quantities of fine particulates fall out if you hit it against a flat surface, you're probably good to go.

 

Even a well clogged filter can be rejuvenated to some extent by knocking the worst of the trapped material out and then vacuuming, from the dirty side.

 

It was just a thought is all as I read through this thread.

 

If the filter 'looks' OK I could imagine it had trapped some airborne material, like clear automotive aerosol spray.

 

This would not necessarily be obvious to the naked eye but would indeed clog the filter.

 

As an experiment, if you give it a bootfull at standstill can you see black smoke? If so remove the air filter and retry to see if the smoke is reduced.

 

Short term running without a filter should be OK... I have actually had to do this 5 mins pre MOT on an old diesel car that had been tweaked. Unimpeded air flow=better combustion/less smoke.

 

I say 'should', obviously if you run the engine in dusty environments it's not to be recommended.

[Ecomatt]

I would take it to Shark Performance if possible and get them to look at it. I see why people remove the dpfs but there isnt the issue on the CR as there is on the PD engines. I would also consider getting the car onto a dyno and get some live data done. That way you will see what the issue is.