Hi there,

Doing some more research before buying my next car. The two areas that the Fabia VRS issometimes criticised for are the brakes and the handling. Is this criticism justified?

Before anyone asks I'm not into modifying cars although I do appreciate that by spening some cash I can probably improve the brakes and the handling.

Thanks and all the best.

Martin.

Martin, my wife has the fabia vRS and I have a Civic type R, IMO the fabia has better brakes than the civic but the handling aint a match. It will all depend on what you're used too but if in doubt give it a real good test drive, we had one out from the dealer for as long as we wanted and it certainly got a real test.

Cheers

ACSC

Yep as said it depends what you're comparing it to. I found the Fabia vRS brakes over-servoed compared to my previous cars and I also didn't like the amount of body roll for a sporty car. However, the fuel economy and ride comfort is impressive for a sporty car!

Chris

The brakes in the Type R must be truly woeful if the Fabia has better brakes - yet somehow, I find that comment very hard to believe.

In my opinion, yes the criticism is justified. The brakes fade too easy, even on a standard car, the steering lacks feel, and suspension setup allows for too much pitching and wallowing.

Like has been said previously, it all depends on what you're expecting from the car, and what you're moving from. Quite clearly coming from a Type-R or equivalent, the handling isn't going to be on a par.

For what the car is 'out of the box' I don't think there's too much of an issue with handling and brakes. The brakes lack some feel, granted, but they work pretty well in normal situations. The car never proports to be a hot hatch, like the Type-R or Cliosport. And it does a reasonable job of getting upto those levels with a few choice upgrades in the remap, brake and suspension departments, if the owner wants that sort of car.

I think it's unfair to think of the car as substandard in some areas, just because quite a few owners on here make upgrades in certain departments. It also has to be remembered that the majority of members here are car enthusiasts, so are more likely to want to get more out of their cars than Joe Public. I'd be interested to see what % of Fabia vRSes sold in the UK have been modified from their original factory spec.

Steve

IMHO the Fabia IS just as much fun as the R and I prefer the brake set up on the Skoda!

I wouldnt want to put them together on a track or anything, just each car has its own plus and minus points. But the Fabia is AS much fun to drive as the Civic but in its own way.

AC

The brakes on the fab are crap, if you're a spirited driver who likes to slam the anchors on at every corner they will fade very easily. I don't know about anyone elses but the pads also seem to take a little while to warm up and reach full efficiency.

The handling isn't the worst, it is kinda wallowy but in a way you don't mind it cos it does make the car nice and comfortable for a small car.

Those are probably it's main weak points but there are so many good points as well it really doesn't detract from the car too much.

As said you could fit nice springs for about £130 which will sort out the wallow.

The brakes on the fab are crap, if you're a spirited driver who likes to slam the anchors on at every corner they will fade very easily. I don't know about anyone elses but the pads also seem to take a little while to warm up and reach full efficiency.

The handling isn't the worst, it is kinda wallowy but in a way you don't mind it cos it does make the car nice and comfortable for a small car.

Those are probably it's main weak points but there are so many good points as well it really doesn't detract from the car too much.

As said you could fit nice springs for about

Again, my opinion for what it's worth, and i have put the Fabia through its paces. There is nothing wrong with the Fabia vrs's stock brakes. If you are getting brake fade, you are doing something odd/wrong and should maybe look at your driving style. Other than that, you have a mechanical problem. Really, under repaeted use at high speed, the feel aside, they stop the car, again, and again and again. No fade, no fuss, no drama. The abs is slightly oversensitive imo, and over servoed, giving a lack of feel.

The suspension is a compromise of handling, and long haul ride comfort. If you wish to veer toward better handling, a set of eibachs and rear anti roll bar will sort it. Only then, you may find the lack of brake feel unnerving, and switch to 312mm brakes.

I have experience of a wide variety of cars, and to echo sharkrider, some/most have suffered horrific fade.

Mr Birkett, yet again you dispute someone with first hand experience of both a fabia and a type r.

"The brakes in the Type R must be truly woeful if the Fabia has better brakes - yet somehow, I find that comment very hard to believe.

In my opinion, yes the criticism is justified. The brakes fade too easy, even on a standard car, the steering lacks feel, and suspension setup allows for too much pitching and wallowing."

Steering lacks feel? Combine this with the brake fade you describe having experienced, and i'm sure you must have had a differant Fabia vrs to the ones I have driven. I've decided that you are a bad driver, and perhaps should swap your clio, which in some way compensates for your lack of ability, for a noddy car, or better still, a push bike.

In fact, no, i take that back about your driving, although I suspect it to be the case, I haven't had the pleasure of your wheelmanship. Maybe it's just you are one of life's complainers. Yet you now own a French car, notorious for desperately poor build quality, and indeed brake fade, and you have nothing but praise for it.

You see, not only do i find that hard to believe, I simply refuse to believe it.

Yet you now own a French car, notorious for desperately poor build quality.

I will second that one !!

Brakes are fine once run in. They lack feel, but they stop the car fine, from way above NSL in the UK, without trouble at all. There is definitely a bunch of over-assistance going on, and the difference between a reasonably gentle to a full-on-braking session isn't all that easy to control, it's ok up to a point and then the assistance seems to change gears & really hammer those brakes. That said although it annoyed me a little it was perfectly adequate. Braking performance wise the car was able to get ABS to kick in at high speeds on the motorway in Germany, a car with inadequate brakes would not be able to do achieve that.

If you drive the vRS as a warm rather than hot hatch the body roll is actually not too bad. If you are going for it 'properly' then you will have to understand the importance of tyre pressure (read: too low and the handling gets substantially worse, stick to the higher end of the recommended pressures for the fronts in particular). Also, understand the engine is a heavy lump, and that weight doesn't fancy changing direction. Keeping that in mind though you can anticipate the car very well indeed and make excellent progress.

I spent money on the 312 mm TT brakes, and I must admit they are impressive and stop the car very well, feel is much improved too. That said I reckon suspension upgrades will make a more profound difference on it's own, in that it will make the car grip the road better, esp. when a little bumpy, stop a lot of the dive/roll and in turn, allow the standard brakes to show more of their potential.

I got the Eibach spring&damper stuff + 312 mm kit + Jabbasport rear ARB all fitted at the same time so it is hard to state exactly what made the biggest difference, but it sure has transformed the car, and SWMBO did not complain about a harsh ride, so that's a pass too

Ouch shifty i seem to have hit a raw nerve here....

Ok let me explain. Around ours there are some very twisty roads, ones where there are very tight bends followed by quite short stretches of straight followed by another bend.... so on and so forth.

Now, this kind of road IMO is one the Fabia's torque excels in, letting you build up a signficant amount of speed on the short straights - you'd agree with that ? OK, now, you have perhaps more speed than you would be able to build up in most normal cars, so therefore, you get to the next bend, and you have more speed to scrub off than you would in some other cars, yes ? So the brakes have to work harder. And to be fair, the Fabia is quite a heavy vehicle, and you have to admit the car does pitch quite a lot under braking.... that all equals added work for the brakes.

Now, my understanding is, there are other, bigger cars within the VAG stable that also have 288 mm, such as the Leon FR TDI, Golf GT TDI, etc etc... yet if you look at them they all have a bigger caliper design.... for some reason, on mine at least, the calipers were weedy.

I am sorry but I cannot deny that on some of the roads I went on, brake fade was evident, the softening up of the brake pedal combined by lack of braking action was very noticable. If the brakes are so good, why does everyone get 312 mm brakes ? Answer: because they obviously help a great deal. Now, its worth adding that the brakes did get better with time, but also in time, I learned just not to push the car as hard as I would have liked. After that I got no more brake fade, but also I just didnt enjoy driving the car as hard either.

As for the Clio, well again, I have had no problems with build quality. The cabin is a nice place to be, rattle free and relatively ok. I understand it will have problems, that is par for the course, but neither is the Fabia completely perfect, which did have a few rattle and squeeks. I am sorry if people dont want to hear this, and I am also sorry for the people who have owned Renaults in the past and had bad times - I believe them, but for me so far, its been fine, touch wood ! However, the Renault DOES drive better, IN MY OPINION. Its just more fun.

As for the Type R, well I've read a lot of reviews on it that really do praise the brakes, and have even read comments saying they "are like nothing else this side of a race car", and yet, I am being told that the Fabia has better brakes :confused: I'd like to hope a race car had better brakes than that.

Maybe I had a baddun, I dunno....

Even in the Clio last night, I give it a real hammering and towards the end of the journey the brakes did seem to slightly soften, but it was hard to tell really as it was right towards the end of the journey - up until that point, they'd held up very well indeed, and still seemed to have power left.

As for my drving, think what you like about my driving - I've never claimed to be Michael Schumacher, and TBPH, I couldnt not really care less about whether you think I am capable or not of having a car like mine - the fact is, I can afford to have a car like mine, so I will have a car like mine, and anyone who doesnt like it can bugger off

anyone changed stock pads they thought were crap, for others that made a world of difference?

I will let you know after this weekend, I've just bought some new pads and will fit them at the weekend to see if things improve much.

To those people saying that everyone who is complaining about the brakes is either wrong or driving badly, how can you possibly judge how someone ELSES car behaves? The brakes on MY fabia are crap, they take too long to warm up and they fade very easily without even having to be that aggressive with them. How the brakes are on YOUR car i shan't be arrogant enough to comment as I don't know.

Now it may well be that they have used two different pad compounds resulting in this range of braking performance hence why I have bought new pads to find out.

Part of the reason I get the brakes to fade so easily on the fab is also down to it's handling, it's quick on the straight but I have to slow down a lot more than I used to for the same corner.

My last car was a MG ZS, now say what you like about MG-Rover but one thing the ZS did do is go round corners and go round them quickly. The handling on the fabia is miles away from the ZS as I noticed today coming to work the same corner I have taken in the ZS at 75mph I had little confidence in the fab even at 50mph. No doubt it would do it probably at 60mph but that body roll is unnerving and you don't feel in control. Of course this is easily sorted by fitting better springs, and no doubt with those fitted and it's stiff chasis, wheels on each corner it would probably handle very well.

Like I said though, I don't really care it makes up for it in many other ways one of which is the ride quality, the ZS was a bone shattering (exageration) ride, bumps and pot holes on country roads often left it unsettled as the shocks absorbed little of the impact. You could often find yourself a good foot further to the left or right on corner as the car bounced, that I don't miss.

it does seem there is some differences between certain peoples fabias, I don't get the same mpg that most people are claiming however I have the lower ratio gearbox and I think that has a big effect. God knows why they felt the need to alter the gearbox because I believe the orriginal setup was probably better.

Agree Schtopper. To be honest, when someone begins to get personal over their previous car, then they've already lost their argument, AFAIC.

Shifty: :rofl: pmsl I actually laughed out loud at that .....

pbirkett: "Ok let me explain. Around ours there are some very twisty roads, ones where there are very tight bends followed by quite short stretches of straight followed by another bend.... so on and so forth."

we all have roads like this, and this is where we all find out if we have brake fade.... I've been down the snake pass to Glossop today, at speed, and its this sort of road, but down a mountain... brakes being pressed about 50% of the time, and yes, still no fade......

Schtopper: please do post on how your new pads work out, may give us a conclusive answer as to why so many peple have such different experiances, but do bed them in gently wont you?!?!

Maybe to use the Type R's brakes to there full potential i should drive it like a race car on the road!!!

As i dont race everywhere and jam on the brakes like being on a track I still maintain that the Skoda has better brakes for my everyday drive, obviously its all down to personal style and preference, if i was upgrading the brakes on either car the Civic will be top of the list!!

ACSC

we all have roads like this' date=' and this is where we all find out if we have brake fade.... I've been down the snake pass to Glossop today, at speed, and its this sort of road, but down a mountain... brakes being pressed about 50% of the time, and yes, still no fade......

[/quote']

Well it leads me to one of two conclusions: 1 you arent trying hard enough (quite likely IMO) or 2 my Fabia was a bad'un, but then that is the excuse everyone comes up with when their beloved car doesnt live up to someone elses expectations.

Sorry, but it doesnt hold any water with me anymore :P you Fabia drivers are just soooooo touchy. Heck even on talkaudio, a forum that has nowt to do with Skodas or Fabias, the owners of the vRS are getting a bit of a rep for being full on and touchy, and what does that tell ya!

Schtopper: please do post on how your new pads work out, may give us a conclusive answer as to why so many peple have such different experiances, but do bed them in gently wont you?!?!

Will do, I will be doing the usual gentle braking for the first 200 miles, by the time i've driven down to Emma's and back they should be nicely bed in (480 mile round trip).

Suposedly these pads are designed to be effective from cold and it's this I'm interested to see if there is a difference cos currently my pads definetly need warming up before they are at their full potential.

Well it leads me to one of two conclusions: 1 you arent trying hard enough (quite likely IMO) or 2 my Fabia was a bad'un' date=' but then that is the excuse everyone comes up with when their beloved car doesnt live up to someone elses expectations.

Sorry, but it doesnt hold any water with me anymore :P you Fabia drivers are just soooooo touchy. Heck even on talkaudio, a forum that has nowt to do with Skodas or Fabias, the owners of the vRS are getting a bit of a rep for being full on and touchy, and what does that tell ya! [/quote']

there was nothing touchy or personal in that quoted comment pbirkett, it was simply quoteing that you seemed to imply your roads have bends that need braking on , and then as you just said again, we arn't using our brakes! which is nonesense. read it again, and see that it is simple facts. it is you who seems to be reading massive things inbetween the lines that simply aren't there. "beloved car doesn't live up to someone elses expectations" what sort of crap are you on about?!

It wasnt you who was being personal or touchy though

ah..... ok......... no worries.

This is a great follow-up to yesterday's

There's been two posts by Shifty recently I've wanted to reward with positive feeback but unfortunatly I must spread feedback to other members before giving to Shifty again.

Ha I was wondering when you'd show your ugly mug in here.

I thought as much, someone "tries" to slag me, off, and you give em positive feedback huh?

Haha what a tit you are.

Not taking sides, but this is a car forum, let's not slip down to just slagging people off.