Has Germanys motor industry cheating killed the diesel

[Ttaskmaster]

Of course, this only applies to them what can afford shiny new cars in the first place... I thought I'd scored big by getting a nice car from 2003!!

If they scrap my diesel, I'm walking. Ain't no way I can afford 20k to drop on whatever electric golf cart Nissan try to save the planet with... only to have to scrap it five years later when it's decided producing all these electric batteries is polluting more than all that's come before!

[Ootohere]

So Michael Gove MP and Environmental Minister for the UK is going to kill diesels by a thousand cuts or actually hitting some in the pocket by hundreds or thousands of quid a year location location location dependent if the Conservative and Unionist spin doctors are to be believed.

 

Theresa May MP must have told the plebs she left in charge of the country while she is offski on holiday to fill your boots on announcements of scrapping things and announcing the introduction of others.

So for The Gove it will be scrap speed humps and dry hump the the diesel drivers.

[moley]

The government announces that they are going to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans in 2040. No mention of Lorries. How will the government recoup the loss of revenue from fuel tax?

Some of the people involved in the decision might not be around in 23 years time.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

Edited 26 July, 2017 by moley

[vrskeith]

8 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

So Michael Gove MP and Environmental Minister for the UK is going to kill diesels by a thousand cuts or actually hitting some in the pocket by hundreds or thousands of quid a year location location location dependent if the Conservative and Unionist spin doctors are to be believed.

 

Theresa May MP must have told the plebs she left in charge of the country while she is offski on holiday to fill your boots on announcements of scrapping things and announcing the introduction of others.

So for The Gove it will be scrap speed humps and dry hump the the diesel drivers.

Ministers cars will of course be exempt, I expect George - there's rules and there is rules!?

 

2040,this will give all the money people / ministers, enough time to shift all their investments and directorships into businesses that produce stuff for Electric vehicles. 

Edited 26 July, 2017 by vrskeith

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, moley said:

The government announces that they are going to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans in 2040. No mention of Lorries. How will the government recoup the loss of revenue from fuel tax?

Some of the people involved in the decision might not be around in 23 years time.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

 

The below is a telling statement

"With nearly 40 million people living in areas with illegal levels of air pollution, action is needed now,"

 

With a few people, Volvo owners come to mind, who keep cars for 20 years, then perhaps this will influence their next car to be an electric one and especially, as with the Renault Zoe, you could change your 22 kW-h to a 41 kW-h when the higher density ones became available.    

 

[CWARD]

1 hour ago, moley said:

How will the government recoup the loss of revenue from fuel tax?

 

I doubt they would increase the cost of electric through additional taxes as it would have implications to industrial and domestic users although we would need more power production to provide the electric for these cars. If kept central then everyone would pay for the additional capacity requirements otherwise it's the self generation and storage which coincides with other announcements last week.

 

I think the simply answer will be road charging per mile. The technology already exists and our neighbouring business has been fitting the tracking systems for years now. It will go down like a lead balloon with the public so expect it phased into motorways first through ANPR tech already incorporated into the "smart" motorways before bringing in the vehicle tracking. 

[Sad555]

Read 27,000 jobs to go at vw in the next few years .

[Breezy_Pete]

2 hours ago, moley said:

ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans in 2040

Over my dead body....

 

 

 

 

 

...probably.

[Ootohere]

All pure coincidence the BMW / MINI announcement yesterday and the Environment Secretaries today, and it is 'The Gover' announcing,  where is the Chris Grayling MP Transport Secretary today?

Off maybe with the Select Transport Committee Chair, DVSA, HMRC & the Secretary of State with responsibility for the UK Law's talking on how they are going to take legal actions against 

VW Group & any other Manufacturers that have already accepted Grants and Financial assistance to introduce Green Vehicles from 2009 and cheated.

[skomaz]

3 hours ago, moley said:

The government announces that they are going to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans in 2040. No mention of Lorries. How will the government recoup the loss of revenue from fuel tax?

Some of the people involved in the decision might not be around in 23 years time.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

 

Good job I keep my cars for a long time then! - currently mine are 10 years old, 12 years old and 22 years old.

 

At that rate I'll probably be dead before I HAVE to go electric.  

[CWARD]

I have no problem with going down the electric path, however I'm not paying the premium to do so. Hopefully they will start to drop in price before I have to purchase one.

[Bignij]

4 hours ago, moley said:

Some of the people involved in the decision might not be around in 23 years time.

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

Wise men plant trees they'll never sit in the shade of. 

[Sad555]

We can't produce enough electricity now let alone FOR all the cars in the UK

[Ootohere]

That must be an England 'We'.

Other parts of the UK can produce enough electricity but do not because there is no storage system for when the generation can be even greater than the demand even with exporting it to England.

Wind Turbine Owners & Companies are being paid not to produce just as Coal & Gas fired always have been, and even Hydro Generation can have electricity available that has no use during off-peak periods, ie overnight, and non peak day time if Industry is not needing it.

 

Aberdeen has a plant that uses renewable energy to produce Hydrogen, as does Fife and elsewhere, 

pity the busses cost so much and are more broken down than running....

 

The Carbon Capture Schemes were all planned and several companies wanted the go ahead and support of the Government after they ran the competition and then the Conservative & Unionist Government shelved that idea.

 

Maybe England needs to get on with their Nuclear Generators and the renewables and the infrastructure.

As it is you are getting 'Fracking' if you like it or not, because Michael Gove MP and his cronies in the lords and big business want it, EV's or no EV's...

 

The Story is about the Use and Storage and storing in vehicle batteries and transferring spare capacity from vehicles back into the Grid and then charging back at low cost energy, 

eg Like White Meter system for storage heaters.

The 3 D's was what the EV guys were speaking about yesterday.   Digital Technologies to activate charging and discharging between vehicles and charge points.

Delivery, Digital and some other D, probably disaster as the UK Government can not organise a pith up in a brewery.

 

A new way of thinking, a new use of technology from China......  or is that France, That and Chinese Nuclear Power Stations....

http://nissaninsider.co.uk/electric-vehicle-technology-to-power-new-nissan-office 

 

 

Edited 26 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[moley]

12 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

The below is a telling statement

"With nearly 40 million people living in areas with illegal levels of air pollution, action is needed now,"

 

With a few people, Volvo owners come to mind, who keep cars for 20 years, then perhaps this will influence their next car to be an electric one and especially, as with the Renault Zoe, you could change your 22 kW-h to a 41 kW-h when the higher density ones became available.    

 

If these Electric cars are so good why have you not bought one yet?

[lol-lol]

49 minutes ago, moley said:

If these Electric cars are so good why have you not bought one yet?

 

Several reasons but I am due to change one of my cars in a few months time so will do the comparison then and i think one EV and one ICE car would work out well considering ie do a mixture of medium and long journeys a mixture of sites with lots of EV charging points and none.

 

One negative to changing is that I get a fuel card for my business and private mileage, get taxed on the fuel I use, so fuel is about 45p a litre cost wise but even that works out 4.5 p a mile I suppose which is more than home charge would cost but much less than public charge but then I would expect to charge for free at work so need to think about that.   

 

Residuals for the first Zoe's were pretty bad but I expect the ZE40 will be much better and this is getting reflecting in their lease costs improving as that is likely to continue with all the legislation coming out.

 

I did try and get one of  our Bluecars, https://www.blue-city.co.uk/news,  but whilst we use to sell them to the public it has been decided just to use the short term rental model so the Zoe has returned to the top of the list.  I would like a Tesla but they are silly money at present.  Perhaps  they will drop quite a bit with a UK-USA trade deal?

 

Best to buy one in spring time rather than autumn, due to the better range in summer, so expect to have an 18 plate one on the drive for March 1st.

 

Edited 26 July, 2017 by lol-lol

[Sad555]

And we were once told that when we had nuclear power electricity would be so cheap to use,I used the "we" as in the general public..................ps is Scotland in the uk still,has the dwarf decided for the people?

[Ootohere]

The Wee people up in the top bits of the UK have plenty electricity generating ability then, and the wee woman will keep on trying to act on emissions no doubt, 

and for some reason people around Perth and points north will pay some of the highest tariffs for electricity in homes and businesses in the UK.

Luckily there are still places with free charging and parking for EV's.   Since Renewable Generated electricity is plentiful.

 

The cost of clearing up the Nuclear Waste from several sites in Scotland and military 'test' sites and the reactors from submarines will mean every generation from now on will never get cheap nuclear power.

http://no2nuclearpower.org.uk/scotland 

Nice tourist routes in beautiful parts of the UK are facing restrictions as the convoys move the waste south or to the airport.

Then there are plenty unhappy at the pylons built across the wild countryside that attracts tourist so that the generated electricity can get to the National Grid to be used in the South.

Edited 26 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[moley]

8 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Several reasons but I am due to change one of my cars in a few months time so will do the comparison then and i think one EV and one ICE car would work out well considering ie do a mixture of medium and long journeys a mixture of sites with lots of EV charging points and none.

 

One negative to changing is that I get a fuel card for my business and private mileage, get taxed on the fuel I use, so fuel is about 45p a litre cost wise but even that works out 4.5 p a mile I suppose which is more than home charge would cost but much less than public charge but then I would expect to charge for free at work so need to think about that.   

 

Residuals for the first Zoe's were pretty bad but I expect the ZE40 will be much better and this is getting reflecting in their lease costs improving as that is likely to continue with all the legislation coming out.

 

I did try and get one of  our Bluecars, https://www.blue-city.co.uk/news,  but whilst we use to sell them to the public it has been decided just to use the short term rental model so the Zoe has returned to the top of the list.  I would like a Tesla but they are silly money at present.  Perhaps  they will drop quite a bit with a UK-USA trade deal?

 

Best to buy one in spring time rather than autumn, due to the better range in summer, so expect to have an 18 plate one on the drive for March 1st.

 

If pollution from Petrol a diesel cars is such an issue running costs and fuel cards should not enter the discussion.

EV cars are still poor value and the range is still the major problem. If you buy the car in the spring so you get better range in the summer are you not going to use the car in the winter? What effect is there on the range of an EV when your running climate control in the summer? 

[Sad555]

I suppose all sat nav (time to arrival)will have to be reprogrammed for long journeys to include 2 hr stop every 80-100 miles and recharge time and location of nearest charging point available,so all journeys over say 250 miles will add a few extra HOURS ,happy days ahead but not for me.

[CWARD]

The Royal College of Physicians report that started the whole 40,000 premature deaths quoting. Motor transport was only a part of the cause but the only one that is being banded around. The full report is in the link if you have enough time to read it. https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/file/2912/download?token=rhEZPBDl

 

 

[CWARD]

10 minutes ago, Sad555 said:

I suppose all sat nav (time to arrival)will have to be reprogrammed for long journeys to include 2 hr stop every 80-100 miles and recharge time and location of nearest charging point available,so all journeys over say 250 miles will add a few extra HOURS ,happy days ahead but not for me.

 

I know for the Tesla cars take into account the distance, charge and will route you via their free and fast charging points as well as advise you to what speed to do meet the predicted time along with best use of the battery charge available. It really is clever stuff and this is the route that all EV manufacturers should be taking rather than stick an electric motor and battery into an existing design concept like the Zoe and Leaf. This allows for a vehicle that can be used for covering large distances as well as the usual sort commuting trips. 

Highly recommend that you have a read of Xaveir's experience for going electric with a Tesla. Whilst the Model S Xavier has still has an eye watering price they are bringing in the Model 3 which is more in line with average persons needs and budget.

 

[vrskeith]

32 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

I know for the Tesla cars take into account the distance, charge and will route you via their free and fast charging points as well as advise you to what speed to do meet the predicted time along with best use of the battery charge available. It really is clever stuff and this is the route that all EV manufacturers should be taking rather than stick an electric motor and battery into an existing design concept like the Zoe and Leaf. This allows for a vehicle that can be used for covering large distances as well as the usual sort commuting trips. 

Highly recommend that you have a read of Xaveir's experience for going electric with a Tesla. Whilst the Model S Xavier has still has an eye watering price they are bringing in the Model 3 which is more in line with average persons needs and budget.

 

Won't be for me then, I'll be pushing up daisies by or being looked after, whatever that means. In the meantime I will continue to enjoy my German internal combustion engines and have a blast before Trump or North Korea put an end to it all ,especially for those that haven't, in their privileges position got a bunker!

[CWARD]

By the time the prices have dropped enough for me to buy one, electric cars will be the norm and the discussions on here will have moved on to fully automated argument. Like yourself when Trump and Kimi Jong-un go nuclear I'll digging frantically digging a deep hole in the back garden for our bunker

[Ttaskmaster]

On 26/07/2017 at 08:39, CWARD said:

I doubt they would increase the cost of electric through additional taxes as it would have implications to industrial and domestic users

 

What, like they would never try and make up the loss on cigarette tax by charging a nicotine tax on things like electrical devices, batteries, neoprene mats and anything else that doesn't contain any nicotine, simply because you buy it from a vape shop?

 

17 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

Maybe England needs to get on with their Nuclear Generators and the renewables and the infrastructure.

 

Not until someone can make more money off that than the current systems...

 

13 hours ago, Sad555 said:

And we were once told that when we had nuclear power electricity would be so cheap to use,I used the "we" as in the general public..................ps is Scotland in the uk still,has the dwarf decided for the people?

It would... if it weren't for the whole market being governed by whoever makes the most money out of whichever resource. Nuclear would be dirt cheap to supply, but requires new infrastructure in place to deliver, which costs money and reduces profits, whereas the guff we currently have is already here, making money and far easier to sit on. When that runs out, then we will get the next easiest/most profitable thing, and so on.

 

 

2 hours ago, CWARD said:

they are bringing in the Model 3 which is more in line with average persons needs and budget.

Ja - Twenty-Four frikkin' GRAND!!!

It'll take me at least 16 years to pay that off...