2011 Elegance 1.2 Tsi - any issues?

[guineapig]

Hi all,

 

Been a lurking member for years now, but could really do with some advice.

 

I currently have a 2015 1.4TDi Fabia (new model shape)  on PCP and it’s coming up soon towards the end of the lease April/May next year. To be perfectly honest, it’s not been the most pleasurable car to own, it’s had a few bits replaced / fixed under warranty amongst other things and  the DPF has a nasty habit of regenerating every 150 miles or so.

 

I’ve been offered a very good price on a 2011/2012 registered Fabia 1.2 TSI, which is in quite good condition and I’m suspecting that in the current climate, any trade in value over and above the guaranteed final value / final payment of the 1.4TDi isn’t going to be that great and I’m not going to get much return from it. 

 

So, I’m thinking of cutting my losses (if any) and trading down to the cheaper petrol option as the car is only really used to do a round trip of around 50or so miles to work 3 or 4 days a week and if this summer is anything to go by, it’ll only get used once a week as I’ll bike to work the rest of the week.

 

i did have a 2009 Fabia before getting the new one and kind of regret getting rid as I felt the old style MK2 Fabia was built hell of a lot better than the latest one and didn’t feel like the bonnet or roof was flexing when I washed it!

 

So, after a lot of back story, my question is:

 

Is there anything I need to look out for on the older Fabia? As far as I know, it’s the standard 1.2 TSI 84 Bhp (Elegance model), so not aware of any problems with them, but any advice or knowledge would be gratefully received.

 

The fuel and road tax costs are going to be higher, but cost wise it’s going to be cheaper and I presume it will be maintenance wise as well (have a good independent Garage / mechanic that knows Skoda inside out).

 

Cheers!

[JGrindel]

Elegance spec is nice thats all I can say. Plenty of mods you can do to make it better, Sat-Nav, auto headlights, octavia / superb full multi function wheel etc! I know the TSI engines have issues with their chain which is known to skoda / vw so as you will get a years warranty with the new car maybe pay a bit and get a couple extra years to cover ownership. 

 

I have driven the 1.2tsi 105 (courtesy car for a week after being hit at a set of lights) and it was a lovely nippy car, not amazing fuel consumption but I did do motorways. Quite and contempt. Again the elegance spec is nice as it comes with maxi dot plus climatronic! Hopefully more on here can shed some proper ownership knowledge. Just thought I would chuck my 2 cence in! 

[Kenrw8]

I have a 2011 60 reg FL elegance and been happy with it with no breakdowns. I've done a few tweaks, remap to 122hp from 84, fitted catback ss exhaust, poly bushes, Pure 600 dab radio, add sound insulation to boot and rear seat, part led bulbed, 120% brighter dipped beam, 80w main beam. Mix driving get 36mpg and upto 46 on long motorway runs at limit. Very quick with remap. As for timing chain been told regularly yearly oil change is best preventative, mine still on original with 75k clocked.

Edited 13 November, 2017 by Kenrw8

[istannbullu34]

Surf it on the web, you will see a lot of victim stories,

 

Mostly about cam chains, all 1.2 tsis' built before 2012  are under danger of it, some people did 100k plus miles and nothing some wrecked the engine becausr of that even before 50k

 

Turbos also seem like they are prone to fail, 

 

If you somehow decide to buy, make sure to start the car after the car was kept stopped more than few hours and when you turn the key if you hear a metallic sound for the first 1-2 second , i would recommend to stay away, i had a lot of anger and stress

 

Wife is not keen on selling it because of the huge boot otherwise, i would  exchange it the same day,

 

Do not get me wrong it is all about reliability of the car - apart from that i am so happy with the performance for such small engine

 

 

Edited 13 November, 2017 by istannbullu34

[Filipelol]

3 hours ago, istannbullu34 said:

Surf it on the web, you will see a lot of victim stories,

 

Mostly about cam chains, all 1.2 tsis' built before 2012  are under danger of it, some people did 100k plus miles and nothing some wrecked the engine becausr of that even before 50k

 

Turbos also seem like they are prone to fail, 

 

If you somehow decide to buy, make sure to start the car after the car was kept stopped more than few hours and when you turn the key if you hear a metallic sound for the first 1-2 second , i would recommend to stay away, i had a lot of anger and stress

 

Wife is not keen on selling it because of the huge boot otherwise, i would  exchange it the same day,

 

Do not get me wrong it is all about reliability of the car - apart from that i am so happy with the performance for such small engine

 

 

Mine does this at 43 000 milles, should I replace the timing belt?

[istannbullu34]

5 hours ago, Filipelol said:

Mine does this at 43 000 milles, should I replace the timing belt?

 

Ours is chain rather than belt, there was a known design error, it is recommended to fit whole kit - it is not only the chain to be replaced

 

I have changed mine  when the car had 40k miles.

 

If you check from my profile the old posts you will see a topic about cam chain issue. If you have time  to go through it, it is worth to read

[guineapig]

Thanks everyone!

 

im currently doing research to see when the engine was made as I’ve found that post June 2011 engines were built with the fix included and I’ll also need to check to see if the turbo shim fix has been done.

 

whats the best way to check these things? I spoke to Skoda yesterday but they just gave me the service history and not any repairs / fixes that have been done. Are there any easy identifiers?

 

the car itself is a private sale, but when I started it last week, it didn’t make a rattle, but I wasn’t listening out for it. I’ll probably need to go see it and start it up again from cold (was cold last time) to check.

 

cheers

 

 

[xman]

The fix introduced in 2011 did not end up fixing the problem, which turns out is a design issue. It was not until sometime in late 2012 or 2013 that a completely new chain kit was designed and fitted that problems were reduced significantly. 

 

I have in our fleet an Octavia 1.2 tsi (cbzb) with a build date of Nov 2011 which still developed chain problems in early life and it was not possible to convince the dealer that the intermittently heard loud rattle on start up was a warranty issue. In the end I paid to have the 2013 kit fitted.

 

In your case, check the car has had EVERY oil change at less than 10,000 mile / one year intervals. Those that have gone longer are likely to develop the chain problem much earlier. If you hear the loud chain rattle on startup at any time then either budget for the new chain kit fitted £500 or so or walk away. A few dealers are willing to listen and may offer significant  goodwill especially if it has a full skoda service record.

 

Check the forum for chain kit part nos very carefully if considering changing.

 

Shame because apart from this problem the camchain engine is great.

 

If you do buy this car and hear a very loud rattle on start up, switch off immediately, then restart. The loud rattle could be the chain riding up on the sprocket and if you ignore it can skip a tooth or come off, in both cases it usually trashes the engine.

 

A tip to remember, never park the car in gear, or such that the engine may be turned backward, even a bit. This is because this chain design in this engine can lose tension if turned backward, which could be disastrous.

 

Good luck and fingers crossed.

Edited 14 November, 2017 by xman

[Filipelol]

9 hours ago, istannbullu34 said:

 

Ours is chain rather than belt, there was a known design error, it is recommended to fit whole kit - it is not only the chain to be replaced

 

I have changed mine  when the car had 40k miles.

 

If you check from my profile the old posts you will see a topic about cam chain issue. If you have time  to go through it, it is worth to read

Sorry I cant seem to find it, mind telling me the threads name ?

 

[istannbullu34]

49 minutes ago, Filipelol said:

Sorry I cant seem to find it, mind telling me the threads name ?

 

 

Here it is

 

Click

 

In order to understand the whole point, it is better to read from the beginning to the end

[Filipelol]

2 hours ago, istannbullu34 said:

 

Here it is

 

Click

 

In order to understand the whole point, it is better to read from the beginning to the end

Thanks you for your time 

[guineapig]

I managed to get the build date today - mid September 2011, so it should have a post  June 2011 (slightly) updated engine in it.

 

i need to go and have a look at it and have a good listen to the engine - it seemed very quiet even at start up when I last took it out and it had been standing for a few days at least as the front disks had a light rust on them. 

 

Is is there any way to check if it’s had a new chain kit fitted at some point? 

 

Also, if it’s quiet at start up and at 6 years old with 41k on the clock, could it still be a problem or is there a chance it’s a good one?

 

[Ootohere]

A good chance of a good one.

Suss out the seller, how they looked after the car, check the tyres fitted, how or where serviced and check the MOTs, for 2015,16 & 17 and see if there were any fails or advisories issued that need checking out.

[xman]

1 hour ago, guineapig said:

 

Also, if it’s quiet at start up and at 6 years old with 41k on the clock, could it still be a problem or is there a chance it’s a good one?

 

 

Yes and yes, no one can answer otherwise.

 

Ask the owner to his face if he was ever aware of a rattle on start up on occasion. Then ask him if its had any work done, and where, and ask to examine service/repair records. Watch his reaction. If you have any doubt, repeat....maybe get it in writing?

 

Initially the rattle is notoriously intermittent, it basically occurs when oil drains from the filter and tensioner when stood which depends on the filter drain down seal, oil temperature etc etc or if the engine ran back on a compression stroke when shutdown and pushed the tensioner back. It only occurs for 3-4 seconds max at start after which the tensioner tightens, the chain engages the sprocket correctly and then the engine runs quiet. A restart will be quiet.

 

Note that if the owner starts the car from cold just for a few seconds, the filter will fill and tensioner tightens, it will usually not repeat for an hour or more so its easily masked.

 

That the cylinder head / exhaust manifold is stone cold before you start it is one check you can do.

 

So only you can make the judgement. No guarantees or sure fire way.

 

The 1.2tsi cbza/b is otherwise a really great* engine, but only real way to check for chain problems is to use it over a month or so and listen  out at each start.

 

*that is apart from on early motors (pre 2012) failure of no 3 lead and as a result the coilpak also.  If the lead is not fitted with ribbed trunking (marten protection) as in later cars the lead often fails due to resting directly over the hot exhaust shield.

 

Ignition leads without trunking

https://goo.gl/images/zT5L5P

 

Ignition leads with trunking

https://goo.gl/images/YwuRU8

Edited 14 November, 2017 by xman

[guineapig]

2 hours ago, Headinawayoffski said:

A good chance of a good one.

Suss out the seller, how they looked after the car, check the tyres fitted, how or where serviced and check the MOTs, for 2015,16 & 17 and see if there were any fails or advisories issued that need checking out.

Thanks!

Ive got the history from Skoda Customer Services today - full service history with Skoda until the last year / 10k miles when it was done at an independent Garage, although I trust the place as I’ve dealt with him before (knows Skodas very well!) along with the most recent MOT.

 

Hopefully going to look at the paperwork this weekend, so should hopefully get as much information as possible.

 

May also tap up the Skoda dealership where it came from originally and was serviced for details of any warranty work if they’ll give me the information.

[guineapig]

2 hours ago, xman said:

 

Yes and yes, no one can answer otherwise.

 

Ask the owner to his face if he was ever aware of a rattle on start up on occasion. Then ask him if its had any work done, and where, and ask to examine service/repair records. Watch his reaction. If you have any doubt, repeat....maybe get it in writing?

 

Initially the rattle is notoriously intermittent, it basically occurs when oil drains from the filter and tensioner when stood which depends on the filter drain down seal, oil temperature etc etc or if the engine ran back on a compression stroke when shutdown and pushed the tensioner back. It only occurs for 3-4 seconds max at start after which the tensioner tightens, the chain engages the sprocket correctly and then the engine runs quiet. A restart will be quiet.

 

Note that if the owner starts the car from cold just for a few seconds, the filter will fill and tensioner tightens, it will usually not repeat for an hour or more so its easily masked.

 

That the cylinder head / exhaust manifold is stone cold before you start it is one check you can do.

 

So only you can make the judgement. No guarantees or sure fire way.

 

The 1.2tsi cbza/b is otherwise a really great* engine, but only real way to check for chain problems is to use it over a month or so and listen  out at each start.

 

*that is apart from on early motors (pre 2012) failure of no 3 lead and as a result the coilpak also.  If the lead is not fitted with ribbed trunking (marten protection) as in later cars the lead often fails due to resting directly over the hot exhaust shield.

 

Ignition leads without trunking

https://goo.gl/images/zT5L5P

 

Ignition leads with trunking

https://goo.gl/images/YwuRU8

Thanks Xman!

 

Some great information there on the HT leads- can’t for the life of me remember if they were sleeved or not, but will remember to check when I go see the car this weekend.

 

When I start the car, should I be able to hear the noise whilst sat in the car or get someone else to start it and listen from the outside?

 

[xman]

The noise is loud you can hear it quite clearly it in the drivers seat. Metallic rapid ratchet noise like handbrake ratchet but lasting 3 or more seconds.

 

If needed, a new set of ignition leads with the marten protection trunking on is about £28 iirc from ECP, as opposed to well over £100 from Skoda dealer.

 

Easy enough to change provided you have a plug lead removal tool.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Sealey-VS5293-Spark-Plug-Lead-Tool-VAG/1623343326

 

However the original clips that the leads fasten on that steel pipework are too small so a tywrap is needed to keep no 2 lead clear of that exhaust shield. My dealer just left it dangling and yes the trunking melted and welded on to the shield and burned out a hole. Yet another thing they did wrong......

 

Also when that original no 3 lead did go open circuit, it took out the 4 way coilpak, which skoda priced at something stupid like £260  iirc (you can get one from ECP around £60) although after a loud moan they gave me 50% goodwill on parts but not labour. 

 

Now I'm on top on things I'm generally very pleased with the two cars fitted with this engine. Diy Servicing is a doddle (with the right oil filter removal tool) quick and cheap. Wish I started doing it myself earlier and saved hundreds of pounds.

 

Edited 15 November, 2017 by xman

[Ootohere]

The seller can get the information printed off the Skoda System for the Services since they stopped Service Books, 

Servicing, Warranties, Service Campaigns etc. At Dealerships or from Skoda UK Customers services.  Emailed to them.

Or just try asking yourself.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us 

EDIT, 

Sorry, i see you got the Servicing information, the Warranty work if any should be included with that as with Service Campaign work if any done.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

 

For MOT's just check the DVLA / DVSA MOT HISTORY CHECKER.  google it,

then you just type in the registration number.

 

Edited 15 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Filipelol]

Someone recomended using 0W40 oil as it reaches the tensioner faster, is this true ?

Edited 15 November, 2017 by Filipelol
Typo

[Kenrw8]

Well my 73k 1.2 TSI feb2011 has yearly service with oil change so continuing this hopefully the car should not need chain replacement.

By the way checked the service campaign link and 

No relevant recall campaigns have been launched by ŠKODA for the entered VIN

Edited 15 November, 2017 by Kenrw8

[xman]

Quote

Someone recomended using 0W40 oil as it reaches the tensioner faster, is this true ?

 

Ski recommends a simple full synthetic 502.00 oil such as Quantum Platinum which is 5w-40 as compared to 5w-30 longlife iii which is 504.00

 

Being a bit thicker probably allows oil to stick in and around the chain parts longer when the engine is stood instead of drain away. And it's slower to drain down past the sometimes marginal seal in the oil filter. Also, from what I gather, ski is convinced the additive package in the long life oil can be detrimental to the day to day performance of the oil.

 

He's probably right, the couple of times I've witnessed this oil put in our cars in error they did sound that little bit quieter and didn't hear a rattle in the short time (<1,000 miles) it was in there. You might take a 1% or so hit in fuel economy with the higher viscosity oil however.

 

But whatever, stick to 10,000 miles/1 yr absolute max changes, more regularly would be even better. 

 

Draining oil and changing filters on this engine  is such a simple job, it can be done on your drive in 10 minutes, easy to reach drain plug, filter right in front on top no jacking up or removal of trays etc required unlike the latest VAG engines.

 

Edited 15 November, 2017 by xman

[istannbullu34]

14 hours ago, xman said:

The noise is loud you can hear it quite clearly it in the drivers seat. Metallic rapid ratchet noise like handbrake ratchet but lasting 3 or more seconds.

 

If needed, a new set of ignition leads with the marten protection trunking on is about £28 iirc from ECP, as opposed to well over £100 from Skoda dealer.

 

Easy enough to change provided you have a plug lead removal tool.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Sealey-VS5293-Spark-Plug-Lead-Tool-VAG/1623343326

 

However the original clips that the leads fasten on that steel pipework are too small so a tywrap is needed to keep no 2 lead clear of that exhaust shield. My dealer just left it dangling and yes the trunking melted and welded on to the shield and burned out a hole. Yet another thing they did wrong......

 

Also when that original no 3 lead did go open circuit, it took out the 4 way coilpak, which skoda priced at something stupid like £260  iirc (you can get one from ECP around £60) although after a loud moan they gave me 50% goodwill on parts but not labour. 

 

Now I'm on top on things I'm generally very pleased with the two cars fitted with this engine. Diy Servicing is a doddle (with the right oil filter removal tool) quick and cheap. Wish I started doing it myself earlier and saved hundreds of pounds.

 

 

Xman, do you have part no for the leads?

[xman]

No but a skoda dealer parts dept will tell you. Personally I tend to use carparts4less.co.uk (in the uk) just enter vehicle details....

 

Just noticed that the picture on eurocarparts shows the lead set with trunking AND a new lead clip. Those lazy ******s at my dealer must have thrown it away......grrrr.......

Edited 15 November, 2017 by xman

[Ootohere]

Timing chain does not come up as a Recall Action because there was no Recall Action just a TPI.

 

DSG Service Campaign '34F7' comes up if outstanding, and it was a Skoda Service Recall Action, not a DVSA Recall.

DSG Service Campaign '34H5' if outstanding does not come up, yet some dealers called owners in a kind of Skoda Recall.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

Do not trust to that VIN checker.

[guineapig]

1 hour ago, Headinawayoffski said:

Timing chain does not come up as a Recall Action because there was no Recall Action just a TPI.

 

DSG Service Campaign '34F7' comes up if outstanding, and it was a Skoda Service Recall Action, not a DVSA Recall.

DSG Service Campaign '34H5' if outstanding does not come up, yet some dealers called owners in a kind of Skoda Recall.

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

Do not trust to that VIN checker.

 Beat me to it!

 

Dropped the VIN number into the website today and nothing came up.

 

Had another thought today about the car - the budget that I have can possibly stretch to one of those warranties that you can buy for second hand cars and this got me thinking- would it cover me if anything did go wrong?

 

Has anyone has any experience of these warranties? Spent a bit of time studying the small print and one of them, with the exception of the cam chain tensioner, will cover the cam chain and associated gear mechanism as well as loads of other stuff.

 

i could probably stretch to get one, which would still make the car a good deal, even with the extra for a warranty.

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!