As per the topic. I drive 2.0 TDI 150hp, chose it over 1.4 TSI for more nm, better economy, enough low revs torque, flawless drive.

 

However recently we did few tests w/ a friend. 

1.4 TSI was faster in the disciplines rolling start 50km/h-160km/h, 60-160km/h, on third and fourth gear. 1.4 was a car ahead, which according to my calculations is 0.3-0.5 second faster.

 

Expected more or less, then we decided to repeat it few days after, approximatelly same 0.3-0.5 no matter the fuel.

 

Then we decided to test if nm of the diesel makes sense for overtaking, we repeated same disciplines but put 4 people in 1.4 TSI and two in diesel. Suprisingly 1.4 was head to head with the diesel, no matter the bigger load!

 

Then I was thinking - maybe smaller engine struggles with reliability but the truth is that my engine is more problematic - DPF regens, temperature dependent, vacuum-oil pump noise.

 

Then I decided - the decision I've made in the past regarding fuel was that 1.5-2.0 liter difference for the diesel in normal conditions. But the really is that 1.4 is very economical and the delta is more like 0.5-1.0 in favor of the diesel.

 

But the thing costed me 2000€ more! I started thinking if I miss something and why this engine exists at all for Octavia? Does it have any advantages to justify the cost?

 

I was mad back then, now I share it not to justify my money but to open a discussion, and maybe find something as a plus. Beside the low rev relaxed drive,which I really like.

With a 1.4 TSI, euro 5 or euro 6, ACT or no ACT the economy is easily affected by the Weather, Rain, wind, load carried etc.

 

So try a 1.4 TSI 150 ps at full revenue / Gross Max weight against a 2.0 TDI 150ps and see the difference.

If load carrying or towing is not important for much of your year then a TSI is the way to go.

 

A loaded with 4 or 5 passengers and luggage 2.0TDI SCR DSG getting 10 miles to a litre, or 630 miles for 63 litres or even less is nice IMO.

(in my case i can seat 2 more but without luggage, and get better than 45 mpg over 50 mpg and continue at NSL's in poor weather or fair.)

Edited 28 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

4 minutes ago, TTodorov said:

Does it have any advantages to justify the cost?

Before "Dieselgate", yes. It is viewed as greener alternative and a workhorse for high mileage drivers.

Now, no. It will depreciate faster than petrol version and cost more to maintain.

 

Mileage argument doesn't work for 2.0 TDI either, the 1.6 TDI has that covered. Perhaps only saving grace is the very reliable wet-clutch DSG.

 

 

Only reason I went for 2.0 TDI was because finding adaptive cruise equipped cars was hard, finding petrol ACC cars was impossible. So, like you, I thought 2.0 TDI DSG will be more reliable than 1.6 with dry-clutch DSG. I don't drive short distances with it (got an EV for that) so I hopefully won't have issues associated with short distance diesels (DPF, EGR, fly wheel etc) and rewarded with almost 60mpg.

@wyx087, thanks for the answer. 

I was also 'forced' to drive it on longer distances and use smaller petrol for the town distances.

After reading your post, I realized your only plus is not applicable to me - mine is manual

 

@AwaoffSki, thanks for the answer.

Towing is not something I do, unfortunatelly. Under load you might be right, bigger engine should perform better, however I use it half loaded on the trunk and usually two adults + a child. So not that much loaded.

I was amazed that 1.4TSI could be head to head when we loaded 4 people there and I was with a friend in the diesel. So around 160-180kg more in the 1.4TSI and it pulled as the diesel in the flying test. Only difference is the driver - I shift fast but use the clutch w/o pedal to the metal, not like the one in the 1.4 - pedal for acceleration is not totally up when shifting.

Edited 28 November, 20178 yr by TTodorov

 

However recently we did few tests w/ a friend. 

1.4 TSI was faster in the disciplines rolling start 50km/h-160km/h, 60-160km/h, on third and fourth gear. 1.4 was a car ahead, which according to my calculations is 0.3-0.5 second faster.

 

if you are bothered about your car 0.3-0.5 slower, you really should evaluate your priorities. It’s pathetic 

8 minutes ago, Tim1631 said:

However recently we did few tests w/ a friend. 

1.4 TSI was faster in the disciplines rolling start 50km/h-160km/h, 60-160km/h, on third and fourth gear. 1.4 was a car ahead, which according to my calculations is 0.3-0.5 second faster.

 

if you are bothered about your car 0.3-0.5 slower, you really should evaluate your priorities. It’s pathetic 

 

Bit harsh..? 

@AwaoffSki, thanks! Sounds explanatory.

 

@Tim1631, it's not only this point. What I've tried to say and said is that 1.4 has advantage almost in every aspect

1 hour ago, TTodorov said:

@AwaoffSki, thanks! Sounds explanatory.

 

@Tim1631, it's not only this point. What I've tried to say and said is that 1.4 has advantage almost in every aspect

But will the 1.4 petrol engine get to 400,000 miles plus that many taxi drivers have got out of there diesel models?.

 

The government may well be saying there going to have a war on diesel cars which is putting many people off diesels, but diesel is a by product of refining crude oil so rest assured that as the demand for diesel drops so will the price. I give it about 3 years till diesel starts getting around 10p per litre less than petrol, and that will increase till we see oil burners eventually replaced with more electric and other alternative fuel cars. Petrol and diesel cars are not going to be phased out because of there impact on the enviroment but because oil reserves are drying up, we have exhausted the easy to get to oil reserves, hence why we are seeing many countries turning to extracting fuel from coal which is very energy demanding compared to extracting crude oil.

Edited 28 November, 20178 yr by POWYSWALES
Edit

3 hours ago, Tim1631 said:

However recently we did few tests w/ a friend. 

1.4 TSI was faster in the disciplines rolling start 50km/h-160km/h, 60-160km/h, on third and fourth gear. 1.4 was a car ahead, which according to my calculations is 0.3-0.5 second faster.

 

if you are bothered about your car 0.3-0.5 slower, you really should evaluate your priorities. It’s pathetic 

 

As ever a helpful comment. The OP is discussing his personal choice and thoughts and you've added exactly zero to this thread, which is also ....pathetic. 

Hmmm.

 

Possible that diesel car deals might become more competitive as manufacturers try to shift stock, but a UK Government which needs every penny it can get is going to treat diesel like cigarettes and hike the duty again and again to try to nudge people away from oil burners.

 

There’s plenty of oil around because of shale, but the environmental trajectory is taking us away from purely fossil-fuelled vehicles come what may. 

All Philip Hammond MP did this week was increase by 1 band and changed the nice Tax deal business users get by 1% on 'New Diesels', 

and those are New on the 6th April 2018 and after as they are First Registered and if they are not RDE tested and meeting emission standards not yet introduced.

 

There certainly will be Manufacturers & Dealers wanting to punt before next April higher emission Euro 6 Diesels in the UK or coming in soon and not already sold.

 

As to hikes on current diesels it looks like that will be Low Emission Zones done by Local Authorities and the Scottish Government that will hit the pocket 

or the Business Users accounts, so the Customers.

Edited 28 November, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

7 hours ago, TTodorov said:

Beside the low rev relaxed drive,which I really like.

That's a fairly massive plus for a lot of folk - self included.

In the end the constant active regens in a briefly owned Octavia 3 2.0 TDI persuaded me back to petrol.

Can't say I don't miss the easy going low down torque though.

 

The 1.4lts by VAG (of which I have owned various generations & versions)...are quite good in their simper forms....

 

I have the 140PS non ACT...& run it only on shell vpower....& the variable camshafts (both) really make use of it....& it goes way quicker than you think......& with 250Nm from low down it pulls...

 

Only problem is the stupid servo actuator on the turbo..the linkage sticks solid as VAG made the design less rattily compared to other versions.....just now the tolerances are so tight it seizes solid....

 

Anyway fixed it permenatly  on mine & VAG have a TSB on it which will part fix it, but not as good as my fix...

I am surprised the OP is surprised there is little performance difference between the 150 hp models. Even the Skoda 0 to 100kph figures are within tenths. A half car length between individual cars is nothing really.

Where the OP failed diligence in the comparison is recording consumption and that would have been heavily in favour of the diesel. Basically what offski said, that diesel does best under high load/speed situations.

Normal UK road conditions and laws do not really allow high speeds so the natural advantages of a diesel, especially with DPF, are rarely allowed to shine.

The 1.4tsi is simply surprisingly good in most circumstances and I like it.

Edited 28 November, 20178 yr by Gerrycan

4 hours ago, Redboy said:

 

As ever a helpful comment. The OP is discussing his personal choice and thoughts and you've added exactly zero to this thread, which is also ....pathetic. 

@Tim1631 nevers adds anything of worth which I agree, is pathetic

I've been driving an A1 1.4 S-Line 67 Plate with DSG today, 4k on the clock - bloody hell that thing is quick. S mode a lot of the time and hooning it around the back roads. Mega fun. Deffo going to get the wife one when her Mini is due for replacement.

On 11/28/2017 at 18:42, TTodorov said:

What I've tried to say and said is that 1.4 has advantage almost in every aspect

 

Yes it does. Really everything is on petrol engine side, but a consumption. TDI will always be better, but it is more expensive in the start, which makes this advantage less significant. 

 

Carwow made upthere improper comparison. You don't compare cars in 4th gear how they accelerate, or 5th gear. Each of these cars has a gearbox which suits its engine and this is not intercomparable. You compare MINIMUM acceleration, not at a certain gear. Besides, they are completely wrong, Nm are not important on the engine side, but Nm on the wheel side. This is where gearbox makes a difference. TSI has operable RPM range 1000-6500, TDI 1000-4500, which means TDI should have ~50% longer gears. What is this telling you? This means that in hypothetical 1:1 gear on diesel, where 350Nm on engine is 350Nm on front wheels, TSI has 250 x 1.5 = 375Nm and is actually faster. This is hypothetical only, TSI may have longer gears due to economy handicap of petrol engine, which is taking toll a bit on performance.

 

So, if they've tested properly with 5 people onboard, they should have tested minimal acceleration, and if TSI is faster then TDI when empty, it will be faster also when the car is full.

KevC-Derby, 

Was that a 125ps one. 

 You should try a Audi 1.4 TFSI 185ps S-tronic if you ever see one advertised for sale.

4 hours ago, KevC_Derby said:

I've been driving an A1 1.4 S-Line 67 Plate with DSG today, 4k on the clock - bloody hell that thing is quick. S mode a lot of the time and hooning it around the back roads. Mega fun. Deffo going to get the wife one when her Mini is due for replacement.

Relative to a Qashqai then yes it is. There is quite a lot of low down torque available in a spacious but relatively low weight vehicle that belies its small capacity engine.

It pulls like a much bigger (non-turbo) engine from low revs runs and while it revs freely it does run out of puff above 4k rpm.

My other drive takes about 5 more seconds to get to 100kph and so our 1.4tsi Octavia seems like a sports car by comparison. 

In truth there are other cars out there for similar price that  offer more power but most do not offer the same economy potential or driving characteristics I like in this engine.

Be interesting to hear comparisons between the old 1.4tsi and the new but similarly power/torque specified 1.5tsi.

Edited 12 January, 20188 yr by Gerrycan

On 11/28/2017 at 20:37, Octy0GG said:

That's a fairly massive plus for a lot of folk - self included.

In the end the constant active regens in a briefly owned Octavia 3 2.0 TDI persuaded me back to petrol.

Can't say I don't miss the easy going low down torque though.

 

 

To add my experience after 3 years:

 

I had the same "what have i done?!" when the plans of long holidays driving across Europe in the 2.0TDI 150ps O3 evaporated , leaving the car to do about 7k a year mostly in 10k out to work and 10k back home in rush hour traffic.

 

But after 3 years I've not had any issue with it, regarding the DPF or putting the car where I want it to be after a set of lights/toll gates. It's clearly run a regen during some journeys, often interrupted, but I've never had the DPF light come. And it can still put a smile on my face - probably best I don't get a car with more power, I'd definitely get in trouble.

 

That said, I'm looking at getting the 1.4tsi in a VW Touran for the OH . . . I'll garner your opinions in a different thread...

 

EDIT to add link: 

 

Edited 12 January, 20188 yr by lpt100

Related to potential DPF issues, I don't think they are common on new 2.0 TDI.

 

Our experience with ours Elegance 2.0 TDI, now 3 months from full 5 years old, almost ONLY short city distances 6-7km in the morning and 6-7km in the evening, no DPF issues - in other words, worst possible exploitation for such a car. The only issue with the car was with starting lock behind steering wheel, replaced under warranty. Other than that, perfectly good and reliable car.

 

It is true that reasonable replacement in 3 months should be a TSI, but it is still under negotiation.

I concur, mine gets used as a 'Dad Taxi' to cart my half asleep son to and from college, round trip of 6 miles with no DPF issues whatsoever so I would have no concerns there.

 

As for performance comparisons, well, as others have hinted at, why buy an 'oiler' in the first place? If you're stuck with this car and you feel it's a bit lacking, have a chat with those very nice guys at DTUK, for a few hundred Euro, your motor will truly have a new lease of life! 

18 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

KevC-Derby, 

Was that a 125ps one. 

 You should try a Audi 1.4 TFSI 185ps S-tronic if you ever see one advertised for sale.

 

I assume it was 125ps, I’ll have a look on Tuesday as I’ve told Hertz I don’t mind if they want to send it for me again ;-) It had ACT as saw the 2 Cyl active message a few times.

Had a browse round used A1s online this afternoon, they hold the money well.

No Audi Dealership keep the Asking Price high and so do others.  This gives an impression of low depreciation. 

Asking prices are not what you have to pay prices.

VW / Audi way, keep asking prices high, then say the price is the price and offer over the odds on what is being traded in and punt those off to auction.

 

When available in all the colors, all the engines, all the specs, then they are not selling like Hot Cakes.