Guys,

 

Was doing 68 miles a day, I've now changed jobs and do 125 miles a day.

 

My hyundai santa fe auto has faithfully served me upto this point, but at 35.33mpg (average over the last 42,000 miles) diesel costs and depreciation are big now im doing 30k a year rather than 16k. This is just for work so social etc would add another 3-5k. 

 

I'm wondering if i should change. Thinking about a Skoda Octavia 1.6 TDi (2010 ish), Seat Leon 1.6 TDI (2010 ish / 2013), Honda Civic 2.2 (2010 ish), Honda Civic 1.6 diesel (2103 ish)  

 

I would love a Skoda Scout DSG (had two before 57 reg and 60 reg), but at only 45mpg the cost to change would easily wipe out any benefit in reduced diesel costs. Equally goes the same for the Superb sel 190 4x4 estate dsg.

 

I've had 4x4 since 2008 and 4x4 plus auto since 2014 and I sure that I will miss it, a few sums suggest that something cheaper and more economical could save approx £3,000 a year....

 

The Honda's appeal as no cam belts, the 2.2 has no dpf but very weak clutches. The Honda 1.6 2013 is very economical (according to fuely) but there are no honda specialists so servicing with the pricey.

 

The Oct / Leon will need cam belts, have dpf's and fuely suggests that its not a good as the honda for mpg.

 

If Civic 2.2 do i go for a 60 reg with <50k for £6,000 or a 58reg with 100k for £3,000 but has a new clutch?

 

Equally a new fly and clutch is approx £900? add this to the 60 reg civic and your nearly at the 2013 1.6 dtec price point.

 

Similar for the Octavia, although I cant find a 1.9 with esp and BXE engines problems have spooked me so maybe the 1.9 is out?

 

Ideally a nice well looked after 130 pf tdi Superb might be worth a punt, but are there any? Autotrader would suggest no, unless a 5+ owner car with 100k and part history is something you'd consider...... Not for me.

 

I'm open to other thoughts, but I'm 6'3" so need something to take me and have maybe up £8,000 to spend?

 

Doing so many motorway miles means that the leon / civic size is the smallest I would consider and MUST have ESP. 

 

The ESP is a real pain as its an option on Octavia's but std on the Seat and the Honda. 

 

If I got the 1.6 (skoda / seat maybe honda, but it feels a bit stronger than the vw 1.6) i would get it mapped as 1.6 is enough for 85-90% of the time, but occasionally extra power is need to get out of trouble.

 

The 2.0 cr tdis would be fine std, but Im thinking the 1.6's have lower car tax and mapped would give similar performance with better mpg 

 

I cruise at 70 (tomtom 70 that is) the route for those interested is A417/419, M4 ,A34.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.... :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honda for the bottom line AFAIC.

father in law has a 1.6dtec civic tourer and gets about 60mpg on a run so would be my favourite for your sort of mileage.  its comfy enough as well.

I’m forgetting the rust factor though.

the list of roads gives me nightmares just thinking about doing that sort of miles!

'Toyota unlikely to launch another diesel car'.

 

So look at what they have built and are available at a good price, because they did build some cracking ones that are good for high mileages.

I do the journey M5/A417/9, M4 and then to Heathrow or Southampton a lot, about 50k a year for work and pleasure going down the SW also.

 

Most modern cars can cost a fortune to fix if they go wrong ie gearboxes, turbos, once they are outside warranty.  Just had the gearbox changed on the Dacia Logan at zero cost to me, loan car for a couple of weeks also at zero cost, all under warranty, also had a turbo go on a VAG car at 65k miles, which was outside VAGs poor warranty, which they did replace after some haggling.  Had a dozen VAG cars, Audis, SEATs and Skoda, mostly diesels VAG have not done a decent 4 cylinder diesel since the PD series and they are getting a bit long in the tooth now.  The 1.6 CR is not bad went linked to the 7 speed DSG, phenomenal fuel consumption but those gearboxes can seem to start having funny turns around 60k to 100k and cost big.  Also cannot chip the engine as it would excess the 250 Nm torque limit.

 

The only solution I found was, which many have also, was to change to Europe's fastest growing car marque ie Dacia which was the only solution to run a car not at a loss when factoring in company car payment, fuel card support and the tax reclaim on business mileage. So cheap that one can buy new and have the warranty and change every 2-3 years.  Petrol version is so economical and capable of any driving speeds on UK roads, comfy Renault seats.  Slight drawbacks are the 12.5k serving interval presently.

 

Big shout out for the Air Balloon Pub/roundabout which got a mention in Prime Minister's Questions yesterday.  Suspect they will not do the tunnel or whatever until at least the middle of the next decade by which time I hope to be with my feet up in a villa in Portugal or Spain.  

 

Hope Honda are still there at Swindon for the long term ie after BREXIT.  Good fortune at finding a good solution.

 

The PD engine was good because it didn’t have the level of anti pollution ancillaries that the latest versions are lumbered with.

Years ago I did almost the exact same commute with a daily 124 mile round trip for several years (which then changed to a weekly 805 mile round trip).

 

I  left the decent car at home for SWMBO and the kids, and bought the most economic (used) diesel box on the market at the time just for the commute.

 

The mighty little AX 14D did 27000 a year for 6 years, at 70+mph and 60+mpg, and it only asked for fresh oil every 8 weeks or so and glowplugs for it's 10th birthday.

 

Even better, my commuting allowance paid the diesel bill and the monthly HP payment so it was a free car!

 

A bit small for the tall OP maybe but a perfect long distance vehicle for me. Excellent ride, fairly quiet and above all cheap to buy and run.

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by camelspyyder

1 hour ago, Ryeman said:

The PD engine was good because it didn’t have the level of anti pollution ancillaries that the latest versions are lumbered with.

 

We are only just finding how good (or actually bad) the CR engines are.  Especially the high specific output CR's are dreadful for NOX.

 

The PDs, I had lots of the 130 hp versions, a 105 or two, and they would do about 10 mpg better than the 2 litre CR wiesel, the 1.6s I tried were absolutely dreadful in terms of pickup though I gather they got better as time went on and when I tried to drive at a good pace they were back down below 50 mpg, defeats the object.

 

Car makers, particularly VAG it seems, tried harder and harder to get manufacturers figures of mpg, low CO2 that were just not achievable by owners, the PDs could astound the owners, 1,000 range from my A4 with the PD engine but still quite quick ie 0-60 in 9 seconds or so, 60 mpg and then it seemed to go backwards by introducing counter balance shafts and the CR.  My 130 hp PD would walk away from the 140 hp 2 litre I had at the same time. 

 

Scrappage scheme needed to get all the 7 year old plus diesels off the road and limit others to non-urban areas to reduce the tens of thousands of UK deaths per year.  Not such a problem here in the relatively lowly populated west of England but awful in the SE, Birmingham area and other met areas.

 

3 cylinder turbo petrols the way to go, you know it, I know it.   Eventually it will be two cylinder and then single cylinder turbo petrol and then pure lecky.

Interesting 

I used to get 20-21 km/L from the brill pug 1.2(130hp) in the 308 ........but in the bigger Picasso the Prince 1.6 (165hp) gives 18-19/L which quite amazes me with it’s fuel efficiency.   The 1.2 wouldn’t be any better.

45 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

3 cylinder turbo petrols the way to go, you know it, I know it.   Eventually it will be two cylinder and then single cylinder turbo petrol and then pure lecky.

 

I thought that the small hi power petrol engines were actually worse than the diesels for their NOx emissions in the real life testing - I'll try to find the article.

 

3 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Interesting 

I used to get 20-21 km/L from the brill pug 1.2(130hp) in the 308 ........but in the bigger Picasso the Prince 1.6 (165hp) gives 18-19/L which quite amazes me with it’s fuel efficiency.   The 1.2 wouldn’t be any better.

 

I am usually happy with getting 16 kms per litre ie 46 mpg ish though i do puff my chest out if I get 50 mpg ie 18 kms per litre.  I can get up to 25 kms per litre but that is the super boring cruising at 80-90 km/hr.

 

On UK motorways, and in fact on "most" of the  A417/419 that the OP mentioned, one can cruise at 120 kph ie 75 mph without much fear of being nicked by the police so one can get make good process. The A417 "missing link"   http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/a417-missing-link/#  is a mile or so streach which is single carriageway after twenty or so miles of duel carriageway and mean quarter of a hour queues sometimes and people diving down single width lanes with passing places, a right dogs dinner which has existed for a couple of decades or so.

 

Just like with most things the UK is out of step with mainland Europe ie petrol is cheaper than diesel here where it is the other way round in the EU. My situation is different to many as I put fuel on a fuel card and pay the tax on that as a Benefit in Kind so fuel consumption/cost is of less importance where as paying an extra grand or two for a diesel t makes little sense.  

 

I imagine that PCP cost of diesels in the UK have risen as their residuals are now much weaker as driver abandon diesels in favour of petrol, hybrid and EV but that can mean some very good deals on 3 year to 6 years diesels second hand being much discounted.  

 

 

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by lol-lol

2 hours ago, io1901 said:

 

I thought that the small hi power petrol engines were actually worse than the diesels for their NOx emissions in the real life testing - I'll try to find the article.

 

 

That is not a general truism.  Like many cars, if you push them to the edge of their performance envelope, they can get a bit NOXy etc.  My Dacia 0.9 TCE is listed as 10 mg/km.  I suspect that at high temperature ie high ambients in the range of 25 to 30 C the pollution does spike.  The rules actually allow the engine to protect itself to run richer to protects itself but then it would probably go higher CO but actually less NOX.

 

NOX occurs when engines are running at the higher temperatures hence it is the high specific output engines that tend to be worse ie diesel getting close to the 100 hp per litre and petrols pushing the 150 hp per litre.   The Ford ecoboost engine, 125//140 hp per litre NOX is not very good at 30 mg/km ie which is half the legal limit of 60 mg/km, diesels are allowed to go up to 80 mg/km.  My Renault engine in the Dacia has a eco button which reduces turbo boost pressure and I expect NOX but is driver optional.  Engines can be remapped during service to help this but one might get a bit of feeling of lack of pickup in  some scenarios.  I had the Logan loaded with 600 litres of luggage, 4 adults and it was warm when we came back from Southampton port, up the A34, M4, A417, M5 and I did not use the eco function much but most the time I do and that helps fuel consumption good and CO/CO2 and I expect NOX will still be in the lower part of the allowable limit of up to 60 mg/km but the new emission test will tell as we have seen with the 3 cylinder turbo VAG engine which got reclassified as being well over 120 gm/km of CO2 and I expect many engines/cars will follow suit.   

 

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by lol-lol

You want something small, simple and almost disposable since your mileage will render the car worthless within 3-4yr.

 

Unless you have very specific reasons for it you probably want to avoid 4x4, autos and pretty much every electronic extra and sensor you can.

Forget about chipping and speed that's just going to cost you.

You'll also want to look for a car with a ready supply of cheap consumables and reasonable servicing.

 

Octavia 1.9d of some variety is probably a good choice. and any other similar VAG stable car. Polo or similar if you can fit would be better on mpg.

 

My mate has a 2010 passat on 130k and the engine is running fine but he's starting to get irritating expensive failures in other places (heater controls, rattles, bearings).

 

I used to do 110 miles a day commuting in a Renault Clio diesel (100hp). Mileage was impressive (70+ mpg) but it was a hateful little car that fell apart and the servicing and parts were not cheap.

 

Honda diesel is not particularly economical I got 45 in my Accord, but I suppose Civic should be better. Never missed a beat though.

^^^^^^ The latest Clio is pretty good in my opinion, did 25k miles in it and it feel very solid etc compared to the MK3 I expect but then the Dacias, based on the mark 3s, are also quite good so whatever they did seemed to work in terms of chassis etc.  I am hankering after a Clio RS 220, since it appears Skoda is never going to do a Fabia VRS again.  Tried the Renault 1.5 diesel engine but it was not a patch on the 0.9 l turbo petrol, the 110 hp version in the Brabus Smart and Twingo GT would be good in the other smaller Renaults combining good mpg and a fair degree of performance.  Got the Logan up to 115 and the clock is not to far out either compared to the GPS.  

 

I loved my 1.8 TSI Octavia L&K. Quick and super comfortable and mid 40s mpg but over 50 mpg if gentle.  18k between services. DSG version of course.

The 1.4 TSI also sounded pretty good.   Struggle to think of car built after 2010 that does not have the chance of a huge repair bill ie turbo etc.  With my Fabia 2 VRS I got a CSMA warranty to cover the bit from 60k to 105k miles to give me piece of mind. Surprisingly good mile miler.       

Small cars not an option Leon or bigger, equally crash rating important. Seem to may squished cars. I'd rather pay the £3000 than be in A&E or worse. From memory dacias aren't great on Euro ncap.....

 

Just do not land yourself with some VW Group Euro 5 TDI that has had the fix and been punted by someone getting shot of it.

 

Are you not just as well sticking with what you have & getting 35 mpg?

 

35,000 miles, and 35 MPG,  vs 50 MPG

1000 gallons @ £5.45 is £5,455

700 Gallons @ £5.45 is £3,815   so £1,640 difference.

 

(35 mpg  £5,455 vs 55 mpg £3,468  difference £1,987),   

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

1 hour ago, thewez said:

Small cars not an option Leon or bigger, equally crash rating important. Seem to may squished cars. I'd rather pay the £3000 than be in A&E or worse. From memory dacias aren't great on Euro ncap.....

 

EuroNCAP has become a bit of nonsense over the last few years.  The Sandero is 4 stars but does not get 5 partly because it does have lane departure for example.  Also NCAP does not take any consideration for rear collision.  Be in a A3, Fabia, Golf, Leon in the rear passenger seat and you are quite like to die in a rear collision where in a Logan, with a much bigger crumple zone of 1m plus of boot, will give rear passengers a better chance of survival.

 

Not that one would hope one would not have an accident in a Dacia as all Dacias, since introduced to the UK, have Electronic Stability Program, something many VAG cars have not had even until recently.

 

Modern cars are all relative safe, none will withstand a major impact at over 40 mph in to a truck, bridge or similar.  Best to have a largish car ie 4.5m plus, lots of crumple zone front and rear.   Also avoid having an accident with ABS, ESP.  Before with customs did a year with the Department of Transport truck road accident team and am always fussy about vehicle safety but I feel as safe in a Dacia as I have with any of the cars, Audis,Dacia, Jag, Renault, Seat, Skoda are all good.  Use A rated wet performance tyres, all season or winter tyres in the depths of winter and pray for not being involved in a big accident.  Despite all the high standards of car safety right across the board the death and injury toll is still massive on the road and it has flatlined since 2010. Still a lot to do on road safety.  But then these deaths are only 5% of the premature deaths that air pollution is causing !

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/654962/quarterly-estimates-april-to-june-2017.pdf

 

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by lol-lol

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

I am usually happy with getting 16 kms per litre ie 46 mpg ish though i do puff my chest out if I get 50 mpg ie 18 kms per litre.  I can get up to 25 kms per litre but that is the super boring cruising at 80-90 km/hr.

 

On UK motorways, and in fact on "most" of the  A417/419 that the OP mentioned, one can cruise at 120 kph ie 75 mph without much fear of being nicked by the police so one can get make good process. The A417 "missing link"   http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/a417-missing-link/#  is a mile or so streach which is single carriageway after twenty or so miles of duel carriageway and mean quarter of a hour queues sometimes and people diving down single width lanes with passing places, a right dogs dinner which has existed for a couple of decades or so.

 

Just like with most things the UK is out of step with mainland Europe ie petrol is cheaper than diesel here where it is the other way round in the EU. My situation is different to many as I put fuel on a fuel card and pay the tax on that as a Benefit in Kind so fuel consumption/cost is of less importance where as paying an extra grand or two for a diesel t makes little sense.  

 

I imagine that PCP cost of diesels in the UK have risen as their residuals are now much weaker as driver abandon diesels in favour of petrol, hybrid and EV but that can mean some very good deals on 3 year to 6 years diesels second hand being much discounted.  

 

 

Hahahaha you’ve flushed me out.

We love the quiet speeds .

Peugeot’s 1.2 will even get cylinder deactivation soon.

pop pop pop

What about bangernomics?:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Golf-mk3-1-9-tdi-with-four-DOTZ-alloys/292357543306?hash=item4411de158a:g:wt0AAOSwUwFaJZvA

 

My wife had a Mk3 and if ever we had a comfortable, solid, economical, reliable, get you anywhere car, this was probably it.

 

Gaz

I do the exact same mileage as you (62 miles, 124 mile round trip). 1/3 country roads, 1/3 single carriageway A-roads and 1/3 dual carriageway A-roads.

 

I bought this for £12,000 in 2013 at 18 months old, a 14,000 mile 2.0 TDi (140PS) SE...

 

 

It's just clicked over 133,000 miles and I plan to run it for as long as it proves to be reliable.

 

I average 49mpg (manually calculated) with quite lengthy stints at 75-80mph.

 

It's been a very good car, lacks a few creature comforts but other than a premature failure of the clutch plate (well documented weakness with Sachs) all it has had is regular servicing (I change the oil myself every 10-15K) including a £300 cambelt and waterpump.

 

It is extremely comfortable, arguably designed for our type of commute.

 

Sure it's probably only worth 50p right now but if I get another 2 or 3 years out of it (200,000+ miles) it will have easily paid for itself.

 

I'm sure a smaller car would prove more fuel efficient but remember you are spending hours in the thing every day (3 hours for me), paying for a little more comfort is well worth it.

 

Oh, and I haven't had the emissions recall carried out and never will.

 

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by silver1011

^^^^

 

I suspect that a long ‘water line’ is no impediment at all at speed.    It looks acceptably efficient.

48 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Hahahaha you’ve flushed me out.   We love the quiet speeds .

 

I will do the magic "double-nickel" ie 55 mph ie 90 kph when I am either early for a meeting or just seeing how good I can get the consumption.

 

Indicated 70 mpg on the 3 cylinder petrols in this sweet spot is not impossible. Probably in reality between 65 and 70 mpg. wind has it part of course.

 

What is amazing is the cars have not got a lot more economical in the last few decades but then they have nearly doubled in weight with all the safety and comfort built into them now.

 

Cheaper and lighter hybrids with even smaller petrol engine is what we need to both improve consumption and lower emissions.    

 

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by lol-lol