Super unleaded

[LBB84]

I'm rather confused about fuel recommendations with the Octavia VRS 245.

 

The owner's manual and under the fuel flap both state minimum 'Super Unleaded 95 RON'... but I thought super unleaded in this country was >97 RON? So what does it actually need...?

 

(Filled up - first time since picking her up on Friday - with VPower today, but the wife's not so keen on the extra ££ every time!)

[GoneToBeemer]

In some countries regular unleaded is only 91 RON, and 95 RON is referred to as “premium” unleaded.

 

On a day to day basis in a standard car, there will be very little noticeable benefit to paying a 10p premium (or whatever is is) on our super unleadeds - a lot of marketing BS.

[stepdavi]

I've done 1400 miles in mine and only used normal unleaded (usually at morrisons) runs great and certainly pokey!

[Ootohere]

It gets lost in Translation.

Remember in the UK that Super Unleaded from ESSO, BP, Sainsbury, Gulf , Texaco etc is 97 Ron Minimum, 

& from Tesco Momentum 99, Shell V-Power Nitro+, & Costco Super Unleaded 99 ron minimum.

 

Tesco Momentum 99 is 5 pence a litre more than Tesco 95 ron, and the car will love the ethanol, and no need for the Detergent Package but then it is the same as Royal Dutch Shell's. only they are not telling you their secrets.

Greenergy that produces Momentum and RDS share import facilities for fuels.

http://greenergy.com/uk/independent 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel 

Edited 7 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[SkodaAsh]

23 minutes ago, GoneToBeemer said:

In some countries regular unleaded is only 91 RON, and 95 RON is referred to as “premium” unleaded.

 

On a day to day basis in a standard car, there will be very little noticeable benefit to paying a 10p premium (or whatever is is) on our super unleadeds - a lot of marketing BS.

In Australia we have 91 RON (regular unleaded), 95 RON (premium unleaded) and 98 RON (high octane unleaded or super premium unleaded or whatever marketing name they want to give it). So there would be no long term adverse effects or efficiency disadvantage to fuelling up with 95 RON?

[GoneToBeemer]

1 minute ago, SkodaAsh said:

In Australia we have 91 RON (regular unleaded), 95 RON (premium unleaded) and 98 RON (high octane unleaded or super premium unleaded or whatever marketing name they want to give it). So there would be no long term adverse effects or efficiency disadvantage to fuelling up with 95 RON?

 

Absolutely not - that’s the recommended manufacturer RON fuel rating, so will run absolutely fine.

[Ootohere]

No long term problem on 95 ron, normal speeds, just not most efficient fuel.

All EU Type Approved petrol cars must be able to run on 95 unleaded, and EU testing is on 95 ron.

 

But then for other world regions the Software is not always the same, ie VW Group engines in South Africa, and even the USA.

There are various fuel grades around the world. 

Some lovely Super Unleaded on Continental Europe, 100 & 100 plus,  sometimes finds its way to UK filling stations, especially October to March,. even onto April 

when winter grade petrol is delivered. (Less hygroscopic)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating 

[stepdavi]

I'm sure I've read that every car sold in uk has to run on 95 ron (normal) unleaded. I had a 65 plate corsa VXR couple years back and was told to run on super for reasons I don't understand (knock, ignition temp etc) but once I knew I was getting shut of it I ran it hard on normal unleaded and was fine.

[Ootohere]

Every petrol car in the EU must be able to.

It does not stop the Manufacturers like Skoda recommending Super 98 for cars like the Mk2 Fabia vRS Twincharger, 132-136kw.

& the 99 ron does make a difference as people know that use them Spirited, or just on cold starts, and how long spark plugs last.

But then many might never notice.   & VW mentions the GTI, which will include, the Polo GTI 1.4 TSI 132kw, but no mention in a brochure, 

or the Owners manual, same with the SEAT & Audi sister cars.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel 

This was online back when Golf GTI's were not that powerful, they still are not, but VW have note changed the site. 

Similar engine / software to a vRS, very similar...

 

Edited 7 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[SkodaAsh]

Very good. In Australia 98 vs 95 is a price difference of 4c per litre, so a full tank costs $2 more for 98 RON. Quite negligible if it really means parts would last longer on the car. Although here we don’t have those freezing cold days like you do in Europe so our cars were not fitted with an ice scraper. 

[stepdavi]

No loss mate. When it is a freezing cold day in uk the fuel filler flap freezes shut so scraper is useless anyway

[SkodaAsh]

31 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

No long term problem on 95 ron, normal speeds, just not most efficient fuel.

All EU Type Approved petrol cars must be able to run on 95 unleaded, and EU testing is on 95 ron.

 

Some lovely Super Unleaded on Continental Europe, 100 & 100 plus,  sometimes finds its way to UK filling stations, especially October to March,. even onto April 

when winter grade petrol is delivered. (Less hygroscopic)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating 

If it were a significant price difference, like that between regular unleaded and 98 RON (about 15c per litre here in Australia) I’d have considered 95 RON. But as I wrote above, $2 more per tank is not enough to be worried about it with the way I drive (lots of short distance trips, rare long journeys). 

 

What would be the difference between 100 and 100 plus? Aviation grade fuel ratings? 

[Ootohere]

?

Did you go down the Wiki page and look at the fuel, Ron / Mon and the various countries?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating 

(not always accurate, but near enough for some info.)

 

 

100 ron or 100 + proper Super Unleaded. Not that all cars / ECU's / Software means it will be giving bang for your bucks.

102 ron even better.   Shell sell some nice Super Unleaded in Italy near Factories and test tracks.

 

I sometimes use Hiperflo 250, bought in 25 litre containers, costs double 99 ron from a UK filling station.

http://www.vitalequipment.co.uk/carless-hiperflo-racing-fuels-101-c.asp 

 

What you get is fuel that is always the same. 

I have had cars on the Dyno where 99 ron minimum was giving as good performance as the 102 ron, and using a 'switchable map' it is nice seeing how the car 

can change.

Edited 7 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[Exeterj]

1 hour ago, AwaoffSki said:

Every petrol car in the EU must be able to.

It does not stop the Manufacturers like Skoda recommending Super 98 for cars like the Mk2 Fabia vRS Twincharger, 132-136kw.

& the 99 ron does make a difference as people know that use them Spirited, or just on cold starts, and how long spark plugs last.

But then many might never notice.   & VW mentions the GTI, which will include, the Polo GTI 1.4 TSI 132kw, but no mention in a brochure, 

or the Owners manual, same with the SEAT & Audi sister cars.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel 

This was online back when Golf GTI's were not that powerful, they still are not, but VW have note changed the site. 

Similar engine / software to a vRS, very similar...

 

 

 

Interesting - all EU cars have to run on 95, as the Golf R is stated as 'recommended' 98 minimum (we're likely just signing up for one). I'm assuming it wouldn't damage the car running on 95 but might retard to avoid pinking and not produce the claimed 310ps (and clearly is better for VW in terms of warranty claim etc)?

 

 

Slightly off topic / thread hijack but Esso's site states the following regarding Synergy+;

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains up to 5% ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol).

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.

 

So do those of us living in the SW, Teeside or Scotland benefit or otherwise in the fact Synergy (and presumably Shell and Greenergy/Certas/Valero super grades) is likely to have some ethanol (presumably to achieve the octane rating)?

 

 

 

Edited 7 January, 2018 by Exeterj

[Ootohere]

With EU Type Approved cars some VWn Group engine cars are 98 recommended & 95 ron minimum, 

and in other world regions not in the EU that might be the same,

or 91 ron minimum.

 

* the PS / BHP you are buying as published in a spec shown as a Max PS / Nm Torque, but really has to be the minimum on 95 ron at different altitudes / temperatures etc and is usually exceeded.

Especially in the UK where the Ambient temp is not going to be above 35*oC and you are not driving above 3,500 ft. Ideal conditions.*

So if you are running a higher octane, a recommended higher octane then so much the better.

Just that Shell V-Power was 98 ron minimum, then Shell V-Power Nitro+ is 99 ron minimum in the UK.

BP Ultimate used to be 98 ron minimum, now it is 97 ron minimum.

 

Cars love ethanol just some owners worry about it.  Better than secret detergent packages that i nice new engine maybe does not need.

Sodium is it?

 

Greenergy are producing and providing Esso filling stations in much of the UK.

Tesco is a part owner of Greenergy.    Bio will not be exceeded where there are limits.

The biggest producer / supplier of Bio in the UK is moaning that they want the Government to allow more Bio to be added,

Last week i heard on the radio  a spokesman saying they will go out of business because the price is so low on it....

http://greenergy.com/uk/independent 

Edited 7 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[Exeterj]

22 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

 

 

Cars love ethanol just some owners worry about it.  Better than secret detergent packages that i nice new engine maybe does not need.

Sodium is it?

 

 

So on an 3 year leased car, it can live with 95 RON much of the time, although we'd plan to stick some Tesco momentum 99 in every few fills maybe (rather than shell v-power - i don't think its nitro round here) - more for our 'power/mpg' benefit than VW's as presumably they couldn't blame say a damaged engine on 95 RON.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Look at the pumps, 'Shell V-Power' 98 ron was reformulated, it is 'Shell V-Power Nitro +' in the UK and 99 ron minimum.

 

The engines must be able to run on 95 ron, VW Group employees or Dealership ones try to blame many things including supermarket fuels

for failings,  saying using 95 ron and supermarket petrol is just another pith take.

[SkodaAsh]

3 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

?

Did you go down the Wiki page and look at the fuel, Ron / Mon and the various countries?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating 

(not always accurate, but near enough for some info.)

 

I did but both for my not being a motor (or fuel) enthusiast as well as my limited understanding of fuel quality vs motor vehicle performance vs internal combustion system tuning for fuel, I could not surmise an accurate answer as to whether I should just fuel up with 98 RON all the time, use 95 RON in a pinch (when 98 RON is not available) or just use 95 RON all the time. If it were about human pathophysiology, I'd be able to understand any article on the topic, but alas the comprehension is not transferable across these subject matters. I think I've satisfied myself that for cost vs benefit, I have no problems fuelling up with 98 RON where available. Thanks anyway for the advice.

[flybynite]

5 hours ago, SkodaAsh said:

whether I should just fuel up with 98 RON all the time, use 95 RON in a pinch (when 98 RON is not available) or just use 95 RON all the time

 

The long and short of it is it is a personal thing, Placebo effect comes into it a lot. Try it for a bit and see if you feel a difference in performance or see a difference in consumption.

 

The management systems on these cars have a huge amount of control over the combustion process. It will run happily on 95 RON (and even lower) all day. If you put 98 RON in the car it will usually be able to make adjustments, mainly to the boost schedule and ignition timing that should result in an increase in available power in some areas in theory.

 

The reality is it will depend massively on the environmental conditions you have at the time. The increase in octane gives the engine management system more flexibility with other parameters if something is hitting limits.

 

Someone in Blighty might not see much of an improvement because it is a bit on the chilly side here at the moment. At the silly temperatures you see in Queensland you may see some benefits. It depends on lots of things.

 

The cleaning agents might have more of an effect if your type of driving tends to clog things up,  short trips, lot of WOT etc. Cars doing their miles sensibly driven and up to temperature stay pretty clean these days.

 

Higher octane becomes more important if you are tuning the engine because you hit limits easier. With a standard tune the car has a lot of flexibility to cope with these things without you even noticing. The EA888 gen3 and its management system is a pretty capable setup and I would not say you need 98 RON until you are well north of 300bhp on this engine.

[Ootohere]

The leaded and Super Unleaded in the UK now October to March and sometimes later after Refineries stop delivering Winter Spec on Continental Europe is wonderful stuff.

Suited to Cold Ambient clean oxygen.   Less hygroscopic in winter.

http://www.platts.com/latest-news/oil/london/uk-still-buying-winter-gasoline-as-european-refiners-8114744 

 

As to the 300ps stuff, odd then that 1.4 TSI 132-136 kW (180-185 PS) VW Engines are recommended 98 Super.

No 98 super sold in the UK anymore, not for a few years now, but 99 Super Unleaded is.

A 1.4 TSI (1,390cc) 140 / 150 PS engine might just benefit as well with a higher octane petrol, even in normal no sporting driving.

 

Some might notice that £3.00 extra to fill a tank for Super Unleaded over 95 ron is a cheap and easy experiment. (£5-6 extra if Shell Super Unleaded.)

You drive the car, fill up, just pay attention through the winter and the rest of the year.

If the same cost of 2 litres of Unleaded does give 20 miles more range to a tank then that paid its way, if just the car runs better maybe also pays its way.

Edited 8 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[SWBoy]

13 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

Every petrol car in the EU must be able to.

It does not stop the Manufacturers like Skoda recommending Super 98

One of the reasons (excuses?) that used to be given was that in the EU the sulphur content of Super 98 was (is?) lower than Standard 95 - higher sulphur content causes faster contamination of pre-cats which needs more frequent pre-cat de-contamination cycles (where the exhaust temperature is increased by changing the injection timing and quantity) which increases fuel consumption and hence emissions.

 

Certainly on my previous car (Audi B7 RS4) I would get around 10% better mpg on Super 98 than Standard 95  which more than offset the approximately 5% price difference - so I used to run Super 98 all the time. But on my 1.4TSI Octavia I just run Standard 95.

 

Don't know how relevant/true the sulphur content issue still is, but just putting it out there...

Edited 8 January, 2018 by SWBoy

[Ootohere]

Only 5% or even more price difference on some over priced Super Unleaded.

(or when it was £1 a litre and Tesco / Sainsbury Super Unleaded was 5% more than 95 ron they sell.)

 

If the Price compared is 118 pence to and extra 5 pence and 123 pence a litre then 'Much Cheapness'.

Pay with a Santander 123 credit card get 3 pence in the £1 back. 

Use a Clubcard and get points.

 

Scots are tight, Long Pockets and Short arms,

but head for thinking, feet for dancing and mony a mickle maks a muckle

 

Edited 8 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[SkodaAsh]

These all sound much the same argument as lens filters in photography. Does the theoretical loss of image quality from using one get offset by the protection it provides to the lens? Theoretically the higher the RON rating the better it would be to a vehicle, but we start to get the law of diminishing returns come in. I trialled 98 RON on my previous car (Nissan Tilda, rated at 91 RON) and it didn't matter which brand it was, there was no difference in fuel consumption as far as I could see on the vehicle, and the 98 RON made for a sluggish start on the car (the 91 RON started the car quickly every time). Clearly a different scenario with cars rated on 95 RON but also just putting the thought out there.

[BigEjit]

What George says^^^

 

I noticed a difference in engine responsiveness and fuel tank range between Shell VPower and other fuels. Even using other premium fuels from the likes of BP and Tesco affected the way the engine performed. Would get around 50 miles extra per tank full on Vpower over standard fuels, plus loyalty rewards per Quarter of around £15 off next fill, plus cashback on a credit card. Makes it as cheap as any other fuel looking at pence per mile.

 

I found BP Ultimate wasn't as good as V Power for engine response and was down on tank range.

And I got slight misfires and occasional engine lights with Tesco Momentum 99 so stuck with Shell ever since.

[Ootohere]

Odd that the Tesco Momentum 99 behaved differently from Shell V-Power Nitro +.

The base fuel arriving at the same Terminals into the UK or Depots that Shell & Greenergy and the 'Packages' added being the difference between Ooo & Ahh 

and the Minimum Octane both being 99 ron. 

The Greenergy supplied fuel being less expensive at the pumps really should make no difference in how the engine runs, 

but then seat of the pants is often how most know.

On the Dyno can be interesting though, but then that is not real world roads.

Edited 8 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki