Engine revs without foot on accelarator

[Janner74]

An update. I drive the car this morning and I was wrong with the revs. When I lift the clutch, the revs rise to 1000-1100. So it seems to be fixed already on the Karoq. However, it does kangaroo when you pull away. 

[Manti]

Hi All new member here. I have driven Octavias for 12 years having had 4 new models in that time. Took delivery of a new 1.5tsi Estate last month. Immediatly reported engine surge problem and was told to drive for a month. Did this and the problem got worse and the fuel consumption was very poor and the general drive jerky. Returned car after month reporting all this. They said required a software upgrade. Done on Tuesday and now all appears fine. Smooth driving, no surge and fuel economy back to what I was used to with the previous model.

[BigKev2]

Its such an insult to be told to just drive it for a month. Will the car magically heal itself ?

I have had the software update and the rev issue is gone, well its still there but hardly noticeable. The car however is still not smooth on pullaways. Its as though you have taken your foot off the accelerator, it nose dives when letting the clutch up in second gear. It seems to be the throttle response. All the cars I have driven have only needed a touch of throttle to maintain momentum as the clutch is lifted in second gear. With the 1.5TSI you have to give it quite a bit of Acc pedal movement to avoid a nosedive. Anyway it is what it is as I have had enough of chasing Skoda. It dosnt really spoil the car,   I am getting a long term MPG of 48 which is good for a petrol car with mostly shortish trips and cold weather

[SoupDragon]

After a week of driving with the software upgrade to stop the rev. surges, I firstly find the engine much easier to get on with. What I found really annoying was the sudden uncontrollable rise in engine revs and the noise it made when making slow manoeuvers, especially when parking. I put up with the jerky pull away when the engine is cold. I do still have a problem with what seems to be dead movement on the accelerator pedal. It feels like the engine is not responding to the first small accelerator pedal movement. This loss of fine-feel on the gas pedal leads me to either give more pedal pressure than I think it needs or if I don't. the car nose dives, as BK2 reports. I often have to turn off a main road up a very steep slope into a tight car parking area. I want to be in first gear in the car park and I always double-de-clutched from second into first as I hit the slope. I can't do it with the Skoda, the engine revs never rise at all in the time interval during d-d-clutching. OK, I can slow right down in second and just change slowly into first but I think there is something that slugs the gas pedal action or is slow to detect the pedal movement. I am using 'sport' action in the 'users drive mode'. I have a suspicion that it is slow to detect the pedal movement and this leads to an occasional tendency for the driver to over-rev the engine to avoid nose diving or stalling. I expect that I will get used to these characteristics without too much trouble.

[BigKev2]

SoupD has described perfectly what I experience. I am glad as you begin to doubt yourself. I did suspect that the poorly set up pull away assist was  a different  issue to the , shall we say , 'nose dive assist'.

Isnt it odd that car technology has moved on so much yet driveability can be worse. Years ago If I had a car that performed like the Octavia I would have the plugs, points, HT leads changed and probably stripped down the carb ! As SoupD says its not worth losing sleep over.

 

[just music]

Is there a bulletin code or other reference for this work? I'm taking my new 1.5 in next week but the service manager didn't appear to be immediately aware of the issue. Would the car be automatically flagged as suitable for the update once the registration is on the system? I had hoped the car was going to be built after the fix was developed but I must have just missed it - even though the car was built around March 20.

[themanwithnoaim]

All MkIII's have a fly-by-wires throttle, nothing wrong with that but, the software controlling the output to the injectors always been a cause for concern.

 

I got a DTUK Pedalbox which simple plugs into the pedal connector, I have had no pedal lag since buying it for my 14 plate Elegance, it's know on my vRS245 

[vegit8]

Hi all

new to this thread - but getting the same problem.

Before I rang my dealer (who can sometimes be 'tricky') i thought I would get some firm details on the fix..

 

So I rang Silbury Skoda and spoke to the Service Manager. He did a check on my vehicle and said that there were no outstanding service actions.

I pressed him about the over revving fix and he then went and checked his bookings for the 4th April and then came back and confirmed that there was indeed an ECU update to deal with the problem discussed here.

 

He gave me the ref code so that I can quote this at my dealer to ensure that there is no dispute with the action required.

 

For anyone else who may need it, it is TPI Bulletin 2049644/2 the description of which says exactly what we have been complaining about.

[DaveLees]

2 hours ago, vegit8 said:

Hi all

new to this thread - but getting the same problem.

Before I rang my dealer (who can sometimes be 'tricky') i thought I would get some firm details on the fix..

 

So I rang Silbury Skoda and spoke to the Service Manager. He did a check on my vehicle and said that there were no outstanding service actions.

I pressed him about the over revving fix and he then went and checked his bookings for the 4th April and then came back and confirmed that there was indeed an ECU update to deal with the problem discussed here.

 

He gave me the ref code so that I can quote this at my dealer to ensure that there is no dispute with the action required.

 

For anyone else who may need it, it is TPI Bulletin 2049644/2 the description of which says exactly what we have been complaining about.

This shows the value of people putting updates on Briskoda, and the fact that Silbury Skoda were willing to help with your enquiry even though you were not going to use them.

Did you explain to them how you knew that they had done a couple of updates on 4th April?

[BigKev2]

Its been a while since I posted. Since I started this thread we have come a long way, 8 pages of posts and a successful outcome with Skoda. However its disappointing to see  that Skoda are still releasing these non updated cars knowing that there is an issue with the Pull away assist. 

Its been several weeks since I had my update carried out. The car still does a very small increase in revs but its OK.

What I do struggle with still is the throttle response when pulling away. The car still nose dives at the 1st / 2nd gear change unless the throttle is pressed what seems to be a long way. I just don't seem to be able to get a smooth pull away unless I concentrate on the throttle and revs. Am I going back to the dealer, no. After the Pull Away assist I just cant be bothered with the hassle. |Its a lovely car mind ! 

[vegit8]

1 hour ago, DaveLees said:

Did you explain to them how you knew that they had done a couple of updates on 4th April?

Yes, he said he was aware of Briskoda.

I thought he was very helpful, even after explaining that I was too far away for it to be of any benefit to him.

He did offer me a discount on a service tho' .

 

As for 'Nose diving' between 1&2, I have ordered the pedal thingy from DTUK, we'll see what benefits that brings.

I wont be installing it until after the ECU has been updated however.

[vegit8]

46 minutes ago, BigKev2 said:

 However its disappointing to see  that Skoda are still releasing these non updated cars knowing that there is an issue with the Pull away assist. 

 

Absolutely!

Our car is just about 1 month old and definitely delivered after the update was released.

I will be asking why the Technical Bulletin was not applied as part of the PDi...

[just music]

My car's a lease vehicle so was PDI'd by Paragon in Grimsby. I guess they only do the standard removal of transit blocks plus a valet. Hopefully local dealer will sort next week.

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, just music said:

My car's a lease vehicle so was PDI'd by Paragon in Grimsby. I guess they only do the standard removal of transit blocks plus a valet. Hopefully local dealer will sort next week.

 

Exactly. PDI on our lease Yeti didn't even check the Tyre pressures. 

[Rodge]

4 hours ago, BigKev2 said:

The car still nose dives at the 1st / 2nd gear change unless the throttle is pressed what seems to be a long way. I just don't seem to be able to get a smooth pull away unless I concentrate on the throttle and revs.

I struggled with this on my 1.2 TSI when I first got it.

[SoupDragon]

When I got my ecu updated to stop the revs. rise, I asked for a printed record to show that the work had been done, But, I was told that because the update was not a recall or a series mod, there was not an official need to record the update. I was given a print out to show what had been done and I was told that I could keep it or throw it away. The revs-rise is not a safety issue and it is not regarded as a fault. Some people may find it useful and many other people may find it very annoying. After the mod, the engine no longer wants to rev its bum off when you are trying to fit into a tight parking space etc, which is an improvement. 

     However, I still have a niggle with the action of the accelerator pedal. It is still an unnecessary business every time I pull away in first gear. I find that I can not just balance the gas pedal and the clutch release to pull away. I find that I have to usually press the gas pedal and partially release the clutch but then dip the clutch a little and press for more gas and even then, I might get a jumpy start. The engine reaction to the gas pedal feels very delayed and the gas pedal movement feels very imprecise.

Does anyone recommend the DTUK Pedal Box? Does it get round these problems? If it is a time-lag problem, I don't see how it can help. Other than that, it's a lovely car. There is a cabin resonance on some roads, it sounds like the tyres are resonating, but that is very road-surface specific.

 

[vegit8]

On 5/23/2018 at 19:45, SoupDragon said:

  However, I still have a niggle with the action of the accelerator pedal. It is still an unnecessary business every time I pull away in first gear. I find that I can not just balance the gas pedal and the clutch release to pull away. I find that I have to usually press the gas pedal and partially release the clutch but then dip the clutch a little and press for more gas and even then, I might get a jumpy start. The engine reaction to the gas pedal feels very delayed and the gas pedal movement feels very imprecise.

Does anyone recommend the DTUK Pedal Box? Does it get round these problems?

 

I am sat at my dealers while they apply the update to stop the over revving.

I have driven all types of vehicles from crash box buses through semi auto HGV’s to fully automatic light and heavy vehicles. Even with some of the most crude accelerator/ clutch controls I have never had so much difficulty getting a vehicle moving and changing from 1st to second smoothly.

When I get home later today I have a Pedal box waiting to be fitted. Fingers crossed this will sort out the lumpy take off....

 

UPDATE:....

The ECU fix did what it promised, no more uncontrolled revving when lifting clutch when stationary. 

 

Pedal box fitted - set on +1 City Mode - life's a peach. The difference is mind boggling.

For us "old timers", it's a bit like taking up all that slack in the throttle cable and having the points set to the absolute perfect gap and timing.

 

Coiled up the cable and control unit and hid it all away in the little cubby hole thingy to the right of the steering wheel. I guess most people put sweets or car park money in there!

 

Next test..... see if SWMBO notices any difference. 

 

 

Edited 25 May, 2018 by vegit8

[Jabbafumi46]

Hi all, been reading this thread with interest. Reason being, there is a similar thread over on the T-roc forum regarding the 1.5TSI Evo engine kangarooing as you pull away. I’ve seen a similar thread on the Seat forum too. So it appears that there is a problem with this engine across the group. My 3 week old car is currently at VW and if they don’t fix, I will reject the car. 

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

Have a look in the Karoq section and you will be able to see more with the issue.

[SoupDragon]

Interesting to hear that. I have looked at the T-Roc thread and it's the same problem that I have with the Skoda Octy with the 1.5 ACT engine. It is so difficult to make a smooth pull away from standstill. There is something wrong with the way the engine responds to the gas pedal movement. It seems to be either delayed or the engine dies when power is taken. I have to modulate the clutch pressure maybe three or four times as I pull away to hope to get a smooth movement and I am worried that the life of the clutch is going to be affected.

[Ootohere]

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/446820-15-sel-first-gear-issue 

[xman]

I wonder if the Miller cycle feature of the 1.5tsi has something to do with all these low speed pull away issues. In that case the new 2.0 Budack cycle (basically the same thing) engines may suffer the same.

I can't accept that it's just poor software, unless they've out sourced that to India!

[Ootohere]

Issue with manuals not DSG's, not a Miller Cycle feature is it.   More a fundamental design of the Clutch / Gearbox / Software / Engine Management balls up type thing is it not?

[DC79]

I’ve got visions of someone hacking away at an Excel spreadsheet, bashing in numbers and formulae to generate graphs and curves and just failing to get the end of one curve matched up with the start of the next and causing the revs to dip.

 

[xman]

Don't be so quick to dismiss my Miller cycle theory. The older 1.4tsi is an almost identical engine (but without Miller and different turbo) and has no issues. So why is it taking months to fix the software with no really successful releases?

 

My theory

 

At idle, the 1.5tsi is configured in full Miller mode for max economy, that is maximum inlet/exhaust overlap via the cam adjusters. However very little take off torque is available because at idle there is no turbo boost (which is a requirement for correct/true Miller operation). When you try to pull away, the ecu detects lifting the clutch and raises the idle speed asap to both spin up the single scroll turbo and perhaps back off the cam adjusters to reduce valve overlap. Naturally this takes time to become effective. Some engines are slower to respond than others. So if the driver releases his clutch too quickly, the power/torque cannot build quickly enough and the revs dip, killing the turbo.

 

Also note that because of the large inlet/exhaust overlap that Miller uses, any drop in rpm causes a much larger drop in power/torque around idle speeds than conventional cycles.

 

The natural consequence is a tendency for kangarooing in a manual car because of the drivers natural reaction and subsequent lurches affect the drivers clutch control.

 

The reason they get away with it in DSG is the ecu can control precisely the whole accelerator/clutch sequence including precise repeatable clutch control. Also 1st gear in DSG I expect is somewhat lower than in a manual so less torque is demanded initially and more time is available for the turbo to spin up.

So its a fundamental turbo lag/ cam timing problem combined with Miller cycle operation. It varies from car to car because some spin up quicker than others.

Initially VAG just tried the ridiculous high rpm approach, but customers quite rightly didn't like that.

 

End theory.