Mods, move this if in wrong section, just wanted to raise this awareness!

 

Just wanted to bring this local newspaper article re the emergence services in Scotland.

 

The emergency services mainly ignore winter or all season tyres...

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Fears-for-safety-as-lack-of-snow-tyres-on-999-vehicles-is-revealed-13022018.htm

 

 

FOI request re the emergency services in Scotland stats:-

 

Police;- 3340 fleet, 158 have winter tyres routinely fitted, 145 have "all seasons" 

 

Ambulance:- 1451 fleet, are fitted with cold weather or "all season" but only when the summers reach a tread depth of 3mm.

 

Fire:- "Does not fit any winter tyres to any vehicle, van or truck as it believes it contravenes the manufactures specs for load/speed index for such vehicles."

 

The article mentions an accident in Feb 2016 which involved two fire trucks sliding of the B9006 on black ice...whilst responding to a RTA & writing off the vehicles;

 

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-37974005

 

 

Basically don't count on this lot being in control if you see them driving towards you in winter...

 

Total cluster feck & they tell us to drive safely??......

Basically count on this from the public sector right now -

 

1. If it doesn't have to be done by law it won't be done
2. If it costs more money do do things properly  or safely  it won't be done unless [see 1]

 

This is austerity in action. They don't have to fit winter tyres and it would cost more to do so. So it won't be done.

But you could ask the same question of public transport providers or businesses running commercial vehicles. The vast majority won't be fitting winter tyres.

Edited 14 February, 20188 yr by Aspman

28 minutes ago, Aspman said:

Basically count on this from the public sector right now -

 

1. If it doesn't have to be done by law it won't be done
2. If it costs more money do do things properly  or safely  it won't be done unless [see 1]

 

This is austerity in action. They don't have to fit winter tyres and it would cost more to do so. So it won't be done.

But you could ask the same question of public transport providers or businesses running commercial vehicles. The vast majority won't be fitting winter tyres.

 

Along with the "it won't happen to us".....

 

So the cost of writing of two crashed fire engines on black ice...£520,000....what would have bought winter tyres for all the Scottish Fire engines I bet....

 

the funny bit about the fire lot is this:-

Quote:-

The fire service’s director of response and resilience, Lewis Ramsay, said: "The tyres fitted to our vehicles must be capable of withstanding extreme forces, bearing heavy loads at high speeds on a multitude of road surfaces and conditions.

"As such, we choose and fit our tyres according to both the vehicle manufacturer and tyre manufacturer’s specifications to help ensure the safety of not only our firefighters, but other road users. All replacement tyres fitted to our fire appliances are rated for road and tarmac use and are capable of tackling difficult conditions such as mud and snow.

"Additionally, our firefighters are trained to an extremely high standard to ensure they can safely handle a large vehicle such as a fire appliance at various speeds and in all conditions."

end Quote

 

Can't tell the difference between M+S & three peak/snowflake....& obviously doesn't know that you can get winter tyres in truck sizes....well how do Scandinavia, Germany, etc. cope...& yep his drivers are not that well trained as both trucks crashed one after the other after hitting the same patch of black ice...

Edited 14 February, 20188 yr by fabdavrav

You need studded tyres to work on black ice, don't you?

1 minute ago, Wino said:

You need studded tyres to work on black ice, don't you?

 

Nope...

 

I've hit black ice at 40+mph & my winters have gripped no problems....its the fact the rubber is still flexible at low temps & the sipe/snipes which give you the grip...

 

In fresh snow I've have good grip from decent summers, but in slush/ice forget it winters all the way...

Oh. I've got winters on my Polo and managed a skid on some ice turning into my workplace driveway at about 15mph, if that.  Inferior skill, I'm sure.

4 minutes ago, Wino said:

Oh. I've got winters on my Polo and managed a skid on some ice turning into my workplace driveway at about 15mph, if that.  Inferior skill, I'm sure.

 

Electronic systems won't work properly at low speeds for starters...

 

 

In the old Fabia with Michelin Alpin A3 or A4s...I was on a back road which was not gritted, doing 55mph on straight, slowed for a corner I knew to be able to take at 45mph...then saw the sun glint of the corner....feck black ice!!...so hit brakes, changed down...ABS kicked in doing its job...quickly came of brakes, entered corner, & powered through with the EDL/ASR lights flickering like mad.....exited corner with a smidge of opposite lock.....

 

still on my side of road....

 

Also have various other incidents when I have hit black ice in that car & the new one....in some cases in the new car its like...was that black ice..?....shrug's shoulders...

Maybe it was one of those rare non-sunny days for me and the fire crews?

7 minutes ago, Wino said:

Maybe it was one of those rare non-sunny days for me and the fire crews?

 

nah just skill...

 

.most of the time I've hit black ice its been cloudy or night time & the fire crews it was sunny.....

 

The business park management are usually very thorough with gritting/salting, so it was completely unexpected...

Hello, madam, this is the Police.

Yes, it's in response to your emergency call about the rapist in your house, beating your daughter and threatening to sodomise you to death.

Don't worry, madam, we will soon be on our way over to you. It's just that the weather has turned and we're waiting for more appropriate tyres to be fitted.  We cannot go out without these fitted, due to Health & Safety restrictions. But rest assured, your call is important to us and we will address your issue as soon as we are able.

Thank-you for choosing British Police Force.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Ttaskmaster said:

Hello, madam, this is the Police.

Yes, it's in response to your emergency call about the rapist in your house, beating your daughter and threatening to sodomise you to death.

Don't worry, madam, we will soon be on our way over to you. It's just that the weather has turned and we're waiting for more appropriate tyres to be fitted.  We cannot go out without these fitted, due to Health & Safety restrictions. But rest assured, your call is important to us and we will address your issue as soon as we are able.

Thank-you for choosing British Police Force.

 

 

 

Just a quick google pulls up numerous accidents in Scotland of police cars & ambulances crashing in winter time when responding to a call...& all due to ice....& I bet because of the wrong tyres from looking at the pictures....

 

No point in leaving the station if your going to crash driving to the emergency.....& therefore can't deal with the original call out as you have become a call out...& now take up resources away from the original call out...

41 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Just a quick google pulls up numerous accidents in Scotland of police cars & ambulances crashing in winter time when responding to a call...& all due to ice....& I bet because of the wrong tyres from looking at the pictures....

 

No point in leaving the station if your going to crash driving to the emergency.....& therefore can't deal with the original call out as you have become a call out...& now take up resources away from the original call out...

Well if you know better than both the tyre and the vehicle manufacturers who are advising the emergency services on what is best for their vehicles, as detailed above, I assume you're pursuing the role of advisor?

 

 

Bus driver once claimed to me that they didn't need winter tyres because the 11T weight of the vehicle made it unnecessary.

He wasn't the brightest chap so that may be utter tosh.

 

But I'd have thought it was probably worth fitting winters to the Vx Astra and Vectras in the police fleet. they'll have trouble with their fav BMWs since you can't get winter run-flats big enough. I know I couldn't.

40 minutes ago, Ttaskmaster said:

Well if you know better than both the tyre and the vehicle manufacturers who are advising the emergency services on what is best for their vehicles, as detailed above, I assume you're pursuing the role of advisor?

 

 

 

In fact the vehicle manufactures "Scania" sell these exact same fire tenders (P280) in Europe & the tyre makers eg Michelin, Bridgestone etc make winter  3 peak/snowflake tyres in the correct sizes & loadings...& suitable speed ratings...for trucks

 

I am in the process of getting 100% clarification from some of the manufactures as how does Norway etc cope when they have to run 3 peak snowflake tyres on the same vehicles then??...

 

The statement from the Fire bloke I recon is just cover all excuses so they don't have to spend money .....as for the ambulance service..."we wait until the vehicle is down to 3mm on the summers before we swap to winters"......ok that means you could be running the legal minimum of summer tread in snow & black ice.....not clever...for emergency services where lives depend on you getting there...

Doesn't surprise me - we had to dig an ambulance out here over the Christmas break...

I think you just have to accept that your death from an out of control fire engine or police car is a small price to pay to get MPs in the Midlands and the North into their grace and favour flats 10min quicker via HS2.

 

Westminster appreciates your sacrifice, but if you could kindly keep any period of mourning to a minimum so your children can get back to work down the pit where they belong.

So are we The People boycotting Emergency Services until they get their act together, simply boasting about our superior knowledge, or demanding they suspend all important services until they sort out all the niggly little things?

11 minutes ago, Ttaskmaster said:

So are we The People boycotting Emergency Services until they get their act together, simply boasting about our superior knowledge, or demanding they suspend all important services until they sort out all the niggly little things?

 

More the case that's it the stupidity & hypocritical nature of the situation...

 

Have the police telling us to drive carefully or not drive at all due to the weather & also telling us how to drive in bad weather....all because they don't want us the general public to have accidents...which is fine...

 

BUT then they drive around in this same weather in cars with out the correct tyres, the ambulances can be driving around on 3mm of summer tread & the fire trucks don't fit winters either......the phrase "do as we say not as we do" springs to mind...

 

Winter tyres for the emergency services up here in Scotland I would say were a defacto requirement....& there have been many cases in the past across all emergency services having crashes to a call out in winter weather...& therefore they have not been able to deal with the original job....not having winter tyres is totally stupid considering that the general public have been aware of these for decades...& more so since the bad winters in 2009/10...

23 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

More the case that's it the stupidity & hypocritical nature of the situation...

 

We're also free to do whatever we like to our vehicles, so long as they pass an MoT.

The ESes, just like those of us in private companies, will be governed entirely by whatever policies are dreamed up by some desk jockey and procured by some random bloke with a parts catalogue from whichever agreed supplier the desk jockey negotiated the cheapest contract with... neither of whom likely know the first thing about cars.

 

3 hours ago, Aspman said:

I think you just have to accept that your death from an out of control fire engine or police car is a small price to pay to get MPs in the Midlands and the North into their grace and favour flats 10min quicker via HS2.

 

Westminster appreciates your sacrifice, but if you could kindly keep any period of mourning to a minimum so your children can get back to work down the pit where they belong.

 

Don't get me started on HS2 - biggest white elephant waste of money around!!!   And that's from someone who leads a Transport Planning team and has colleagues with involvement in it!

46 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Don't get me started on HS2 - biggest white elephant waste of money around!!!   And that's from someone who leads a Transport Planning team and has colleagues with involvement in it!

 Careful, you're beginning to sound like lol-lol!   BD 

3 minutes ago, Fin69 said:

 Careful, you're beginning to sound like lol-lol!   BD 

 

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!   please don't tell me that!

Allegedly this is what his optician displays when he's getting his eyes tested.

Tru dat! 

Just a quick OT.

Do not assume all Police cars just have to pass a MOT.  Because even over 3 years old they do not have to, 

and there are instances of Grampian Police having vehicles in accidents and even fatal accidents where Police Cars were not MOT'd and would have failed a MOT.

This includes vehicles used in the vicinity of Balmoral and which might have been used for Royal Protection or on training of officers that do that type of duties.

 

As for Grampian / Aberdeen Fire Services, (Scottish Fire and Rescue Services)

they spent a fortune on Fire Engines, or Pumps / Turntables or what ever that were un-usable.

(Aberdeen had white fire engines until 2013/14....)

 

 

 

Fire chiefs blasted over plans to buy mini engines 'too small' to tackle fires.mhtml

Scottish Fire Service sells two top-spec engines at huge loss after trucks too heavy to drive - Daily Record.mhtml

Scottish fire chiefs sell state-of-the-art £1m engines for just £15k_ - Sunday Post.mhtml

Edited 15 February, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki