Screen washer frozen

[BriskodaJeff]

M4 5pm. OAT -3C. Washers froze! I use fairly standard forecourt screen wash (good to -10C from memory). Off the motorway 0C or thereabouts, washers start working again. Anyone else seen this? Doesn't seem right to me.

[peter_k]

My explanation, without discussing the screen wash concentration is at "motorway" speeds the wind chill would keep the bonnet at -3 but having left the motorway with a hot engine the under bonnet temperature would rapidly rise and defrosting occured

[Gizmo]

It’s usually the nozzles that freeze, hence the option of heated nozzles.

[Ootohere]

Wind Chill is something flesh human or animals feel.

Like forecast tomorrow at -7*oC on Mountains with wind of 35 mph or more windchill will be -25*oC or so.

 

No windchill in a engine compartment of washer fluid. 

Even without a under engine cover. 

If you need minus 20 or even 25 then use it there is plenty about, 

but if you test some of -5, -10 and lower stuff if you have someplace to get it cold then you might find it freezes before it gets to those temps.

 

Plenty do still use Radiator / Grill Covers / Muffs to allow a radiator to get up to heat and not be over 'air cooled'.

 

Edited 27 February, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[BriskodaJeff]

Thanks for the replies all. Will check out whether the heated nozzles are an easy retrofit. Given I have to drive the same route again at 6am tomorrow, would topping up with "winter mix" in the meantime help? Anything else I could do? I like Lane Assist, but not as an alternative to being able to see out of the windscreen...

[juux]

Never had nozzles freeze in over 20 years since I switched to proper -20something°C screenwash, used at the appropriate concentrations - pretty much neat in this weather (-10°C last night).

 

The stuff you buy from garage forecourts, supermarkets etc. tends to be useless. I bought mine in Costco when I was in the UK. 

[peter_k]

13 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

No windchill in a engine compartment of washer fluid. 

 Apologies I was using wind chill rather than the rate of heat loss for simplicity - Wikipedia "The effect of wind chill is to increase the rate of heat loss".  My explanation was making the point that the rate of heat loss by the bonnet at say 70mph is far greater than at 30mph and therefore the temperature of the bonnet may very well rise on leaving a motorway.  Without a physical check I thought the washer supply enters the bonnet by the n/s hinge and runs within the bonnet to the washer jets so yes its not the engine compartment but steel conducts heat 

[Ootohere]

Most manufacturers are sensible and put the Screen Washer Bottles where there is not a cold air flow.

Not so smart with pipes to the nozzles often.

 

As for Skoda they put a Simply Clever Ice Scraper in Fuel Filler flaps well known for freezing closed.

Also door / window seals that allow H2o Into doors, and only out if you open the door, so over a few days a passenger door unopened can be frozen with ice, 

especially were people use warm water to clear glass & where the ambient temp is staying below freezing day and night for a few days.

[BriskodaJeff]

Thanks Peter I did understand what you were getting at. Still annoyed it happened at such relatively benign temps, but accept it was at least partly my fault for using carp fluid.

[Boxerdog1]

1 hour ago, BriskodaJeff said:

Thanks Peter I did understand what you were getting at. Still annoyed it happened at such relatively benign temps, but accept it was at least partly my fault for using carp fluid.

Sounds a bit fishy to me Jeff  !! 

[xman]

Latent heat of evaporation is all I've got to say. 

[Rainmaker]

5 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

Wind Chill is something flesh human or animals feel.

Like forecast tomorrow at -7*oC on Mountains with wind of 35 mph or more windchill will be -25*oC or so.

 

No windchill in a engine compartment of washer fluid. 

Even without a under engine cover. 

If you need minus 20 or even 25 then use it there is plenty about, 

but if you test some of -5, -10 and lower stuff if you have someplace to get it cold then you might find it freezes before it gets to those temps.

 

Plenty do still use Radiator / Grill Covers / Muffs to allow a radiator to get up to heat and not be over 'air cooled'.

 

 

Skoda (and Ford, and BMW, and many others) use active grille shutters now for exactly that reason, making the old 'cardboard over the radiator' trick redundant.

 

The suggestions above are correct though; most cheap screen wash is awful, and will freeze well before the labelled rating. Get yourself into Skoda and buy their proper stuff (not Quantum, the VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat stuff in a grey bottle with a green lid). It's rated to -70 when used neat, and even Siberia isn't that cold! It works out cheaper than almost anything else when diluted down for (approx) -20 or so. It's a very effective cleaner, smear free and smells OK. Until recently it was always 2 bottles for £5 but lately the dealers are all charging over a fiver for one bottle. Still the best though. Even many BMW dealers will recommend their customers use it lol.

 

Alternatively, Halfords screen wash is actually extremely good as well. It clears muck and oil effortlessly and doesn't streak. The -20 one (citrus) will do you, and depending on the price on the day it can be slightly cheaper to buy 5 litres of -20 ready to use, rather than 5 litres of -20 concentrate (which works to -20 undiluted, so the two are actually basically identical). Their cherry scented -30 formula is great too, and will work well in 99.9% of British winters diluted 50% with water, so again compare prices and work out which ends up being cheapest for you. 

 

Holts (try Costco), Prestone -23 concentrate (cheaper in Tesco as it's usually on offer, still expensive compared to the aforementioned ones), or things like Frostex and AutoGlym  (both of which are very good, but both work out much more expensive than the others) are all very good and will never freeze up on you as long as you dilute appropriately. Basically, use anything decent and never ever buy the cheap blue stuff again. Then you'll be fine. 

[BriskodaJeff]

Thanks all. Will get the proper fluid tomorrow (wish me luck for today though). 

7 hours ago, Boxerdog1 said:

Sounds a bit fishy to me Jeff  !! 

Though it may as well have been carp fluid for all the use it was yesterday. 

 

6 hours ago, xman said:

Latent heat of evaporation is all I've got to say. 

Good! It would have been wasted on this mechanical moron...

[dg360]

I currently have the halfords -30c stuff undiluted.  This morning it was -4c.  Windscreen frozen and running late.  Pulled the stalk, covered the screen in a good amount of the fluorescent green stuff, wipers cleared 70% of the ice, another go and clean as a whistle.

I don't make a habit of it as it can't be good for the wiper blades, but it's worth the cost of running it neat.  Who needs heated nozzles and windscreen  

[hwr1983]

I always use the Prestone -10 stuff, and it didn't freeze over last night (neat obviously) - I only filled up 2 days ago and theres so much salt its probably nearly ready to be done again!

[Ootohere]

Anyone that interested in the temp of a washer bottle / Washer bottle area, or under bonnet temps compared to ambient temps, and then the temp in different areas of an engine compartment when driving just need to spend about £3 and buy a digital fridge thermometer.

Dead handy in winter, and even summer, checking air intake temps when changing Induction Kit and the like, 

and when thinking about heat soak and the likes in high temps.

 

Remember different vehicles have external temp sensors in different places, some low down, some in mirrors.(about 3-4 feet above the ground)

Ground / Road temp is taken at road height or where there can be cold sink can be several degree C different from 

Air Temp which is taken up to 2 meters above the ground.

http://trafficscotland.org/weatherstations 

Edited 28 February, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[Pesmog]

Agree about using the proper VAG -70c stuff in winter. I have never had a freeze up since I started using it and I don't have heated nozzles. Last night it was great at minus 10c.   It is expensive, even on ebay.  The rest of the year I use the cheaper Halfords stuff.

[BriskodaJeff]

 

Cheers @Pesmog. Is it this one? Says it goes to -70C and showing at £4.76 per litre from Hortons (though I will buy from local dealer if it is the right one).

Edited 28 February, 2018 by BriskodaJeff
Stupid picture upload

[Rainmaker]

9 minutes ago, BriskodaJeff said:

 

Cheers @Pesmog. Is it this one? Says it goes to -70C and showing at £4.76 per litre from Hortons (though I will buy from local dealer if it is the right one).

 

Yes that's the one @BriskodaJeff though iirc they're grey bottles with green lids now, as I mentioned in my previous post. It's great stuff.

[BriskodaJeff]

Thanks rainmaker. Trip to the dealer tomorrow if I'm not snowed in!

[penguin17]

Just now, BriskodaJeff said:

Thanks rainmaker. Trip to the dealer tomorrow if I'm not snowed in!

I know you're in a rush but you can get it on eBay for much much cheaper than dealer prices.  It's very good stuff though. 

[Jon TDI]

£40 for a box of 10x1 litre bottles

 

Bought some last week in preparation for this weeks cold blast!

Edited 28 February, 2018 by Jon TDI

[BriskodaJeff]

Thanks for the tip penguin.  Will also do a bulk order via eBay but need to get some in straight away. Interestingly -3c on the motorway today and it worked fine... Not taking any more chances though. 

[penguin17]

10 minutes ago, BriskodaJeff said:

Thanks for the tip penguin.  Will also do a bulk order via eBay but need to get some in straight away. Interestingly -3c on the motorway today and it worked fine... Not taking any more chances though. 

Also checkout Euro Car Parts. Usually 30%-50% off and bulk sizes. I got 12 litres for less than  a fiver before Xmas. 

 

No issues so far 

Edited 28 February, 2018 by penguin17

[Pesmog]

They seem to change the colour of the bottles every time I buy some. My current ones are the clear bottle with the blue lid as shown above but my last lot was silver grey bottle with an aquamarine lid. Same liquid though, with its own unique smell.

Edited 28 February, 2018 by Pesmog