1.9 SDI timing VCDS?

[poloSDI]

This is timing before timing belt replacement

 

 

 

 

And this is timing after the timing belt replacement

 

 

How bad do you think this is?

How do I pursuade my mechanic to fine tune the timing? Obviously he thinks if the engine runs it is fine.

I told him to do it before he even started the job, he said he will try, but apparently it is even worse then before,

Can i do this by myself?

 

It is done here on this pulley? These 3 bolts should be loosen and then i turn by the cranskaft, or where exactly, and which way and how much would you estimate i should turn based on the graph given up here? What should i keep eye on to make sure i dont do any damage? 

 

Edited 6 June, 2018 by poloSDI

[sepulchrave]

You need to lock it up properly to get the timing right, that means using the correct locking tools, which means actually HAVING the correct locking tools.

 

Otherwise you're just pinning a tail on the donkey. You can't estimate the timing FFS!

 

Sack that mechanic while you're at it, what kind of idiot tries to time a cambelt without the correct tools or any idea how to do it. Too retarded is about right.

[poloSDI]

Well this is the second timing belt job this mechanic did to my car, and the first pic is 100 000km after the first job he did.

The second one is today after the secont timing belt replacement.

 

What can be done at this point?

How to correct this now after the "damage has been done"?

Edited 6 June, 2018 by poloSDI

[sepulchrave]

6 minutes ago, poloSDI said:

Well this is the second timing belt job this mechanic did to my car, and the first pic is 100 000km after the first job he did.

The second one is today after the secont timing belt replacement.

 

What can be done at this point?

How to correct this now after the "damage has been done"?

 

Just take the belt off, lock it up correctly and refit it. It's not rocket surgery.

[poloSDI]

Is it not possible to adjust it via the diesel pump while the belt is on?

 

In this(click) guide from this forum, it is also done after the belt  replacement using the "guessing technique", i quote the OP :"When adjusting, loosen the 3 bolts, and turn the diesel pump with the centre bolt, use really really small movements, seriously tiny ones, you may have to do a couple of runs before getting it right, you only need to make sure the timing is within tolerances, I was lucky with my second attempt."

 

 

Also like it is shown on this video at 2:35, from this guide? Or is it too much out of spec to be able to tune it with pump adjustment?

I dont think i will find someone competent here to do it, i will have to teach my mechanic or try it myself.

What i dont understand, how does this mechanic work at an authorized Volkswagen Service Center for years, and does not know how to do this properly, and why did he have more luck with the timing the first time he did it, i figured he would be better at it  the second time doing it to my car after 7 more years of experience.

Edited 6 June, 2018 by poloSDI

[sepulchrave]

15 minutes ago, poloSDI said:

Is it not possible to adjust it via the diesel pump while the belt is on?

 

In this(click) guide from this forum, it is also done after the belt  replacement using the "guessing technique", i quote the OP :"When adjusting, loosen the 3 bolts, and turn the diesel pump with the centre bolt, use really really small movements, seriously tiny ones, you may have to do a couple of runs before getting it right, you only need to make sure the timing is within tolerances, I was lucky with my second attempt."

 

 

Also like it is shown on this video at 2:35, from this guide? Or is it too much out of spec to be able to tune it with pump adjustment?

I dont think i will find someone competent here to do it, i will have to teach my mechanic or try it myself.

What i dont understand, how does this mechanic work at an authorized Volkswagen Service Center for years, and does not know how to do this properly, and why did he have more luck with the timing the first time he did it, i figured he would be better at it  the second time doing it to my car after 7 more years of experience.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about with 'guessing', THERE IS NO guessing, you must LOCK the fuel pump and LOCK the camshaft in place, line up the TDC marks and only move the pulleys on their backplates to get the timing perfect AFTER it's been fitted and tensioned CORRECTLY, if the belt is a whole tooth out or more then you must take it off and refit it correctly before checking the timing again.

[poloSDI]

As it seems from the video i linked, really small movements make a lot of difference, i dont think it is out by a whole tooth, i believe it will be possible to do it with the pump adjustment, after watching the video im even confident doing it myself. I'll let you know how it went,

Thanks.

[sepulchrave]

9 minutes ago, poloSDI said:

As it seems from the video i linked, really small movements make a lot of difference, i dont think it is out by a whole tooth, i believe it will be possible to do it with the pump adjustment, after watching the video im even confident doing it myself. I'll let you know how it went,

Thanks.

 

Small movements of the BIG pulley on the pump mean a larger movement of the SMALL pulley on the crank, remember it's the cam timing you're adjusting, which is why the cam pulley must be loosened off its backplate while you jerk the timing around.

 

I'm not sure you should be as confident as you are, belief can be a very dangerous thing.

[poloSDI]

Its not the actual pulley that needs to be loosened to tune this as far as i understood from the video and instructions, its just the 3 small bolts for the pump, i dont see what could go wrong here, loosen the pump, make that REALLY small movement in the right direction, fasten it back up correctly, make sure its fine using vcds and thats it.

 

Edited 6 June, 2018 by poloSDI

[sepulchrave]

Oh boy.

 

How does VCDS know what the pump is doing when it's using the Cam Position Sensor data and comparing it to the Crank Position Sensor data to calculate the cam timing?

 

You're only using the pump pulley to jog the cambelt and move the crank pulley in relation to the cam pulley because it has a nice big nut in the middle of it and it's easy to get at.

[Lofty]

How much improvements are you expecting to make on a normally aspirated 68bhp engine? If the belt has been done with the proper tools, everything locked into place and the engine runs ok, then i'd leave well alone. You run the risk of ruining something with guesswork and tinkering.

 

Why do you think it's not running right?

[poloSDI]

5 minutes ago, Lofty said:

How much improvements are you expecting to make on a normally aspirated 68bhp engine? If the belt has been done with the proper tools, everything locked into place and the engine runs ok, then i'd leave well alone. You run the risk of ruining something with guesswork and tinkering.

 

Why do you think it's not running right?

Im nit trying to make any improvements, i just want it to run properly and within spec as you can see in the graphs from the vcds like it did before timing belt replacement. As i listed above in the guides for timing belt replacement, it is nornal procedure to fine tune the diesel pump after the belt replacement.

Edited 8 June, 2018 by poloSDI

[LB123]

Having been the proud owner of an SDI polo classic till 2 years ago I did change the belt and pump on it. The fact that your SDI starts and runs makes me assume (risky?) that your mechanic did use the correct tools when changing the belt and has got it close but retarded. Quite why he didn't complete the job by getting the timing within limits I don't know. Maybe he doesn't have a TDI timing checker or it wasn't working. His bad. I should say that if your mechanic didn't use the crank locking tool, the cam locking tool and the pump locking pin when changing the belt then you are flogging a dead horse.

Are you prepared to make this assumption? If you are then no further tools apart from a 13mm spanner, 22mm spanner and VCDS are needed to get it right. It is an easy process for you to do at home. Follow the Ross-Tech video. The only difficulty I had was in moving the big spanner in small enough increments, seriously. Loosen the 13mm bolts, 22mm spanner on the central bolt, handle toward the bumper to advance, toward the windscreen to retard, tighten the 13mm bolts, run engine and TDI checker. Repeat till within spec.

 

Edited 8 June, 2018 by LB123

[poloSDI]

exactly what i wanted to hear. Finally someone , thank you. Should i ask my mechanic if he used all 3 blocking tools during the job or he tried to use the mark on the flywheel?

 

And if i get it right SETTING UP THE DIESEL PUMP according to vcds TDI TIMING is it guaranteed that  everything is ok or it just  means that pump is fine tuned but camshaft still can be out of spec by some degree because the mechanic maybe did not lock it up properly?

Edited 8 June, 2018 by poloSDI

[LB123]

The problem as I see it is that you have lost confidence in your mechanic because you have VCDS and can see the final part of the job has not been done, the fine tuning. You can ask him if he used the locking tools. He is bound to say yes? The tools are very cheap. I can't imagine a garage without them. Either he did or he was very skilled and didn't but I doubt he could get it running at all if he didn't. Fitting a timing belt is fiddly, precise, and I would have thought nigh on impossible to do without the tools. And you say it runs fine so I'm not doubting him. So not much point in asking? You might ask him out of interest why he didn't fine tune the timing? Perhaps because it was running fine and few customers have VCDS to check its been adjusted within spec so he saved himself 10 minutes work?

I would check his work by fitting the locks in the cam and pump and then just visualising the flywheel marks in the window on the bell housing. If they are all lined up I would accept they are OK and go ahead with the fine tuning. If they don't all line up then take the car back and get him to do the job properly.

[Interdiction]

Thread hijack ...Could you ...Slacken the tension-er off then cut 50 % of the old belt so its still on the teeth then slot the new belt on ..Then cut off the old belt and finish sliding the new belt ..Dunno ? 

[sepulchrave]

48 minutes ago, Interdiction said:

Thread hijack ...Could you ...Slacken the tension-er off then cut 50 % of the old belt so its still on the teeth then slot the new belt on ..Then cut off the old belt and finish sliding the new belt ..Dunno ? 

 

You could, but why would you bother, far easier to simply replace the belt with the engine locked up, nothing can move if it's all locked.

[goulbak]

Your SDI code is "ASY" not "AEY"

[Breezy_Pete]

You're more than a year late to this party, and also probably wrong, but hey, welcome along anyway :

 

 

 

[goulbak]

Hi,

while searching on the internet, I found this old post with my previous comments. So, let me clarify that I'm not wrong. ☺️

 

Edited 18 December, 2023 by goulbak

[Breezy_Pete]

Clearly both codes were fitted to Polos in different years of production. I see no reason to doubt the OP has/had an AEY in his/hers. 

[Paws4Thot]

50 minutes ago, goulbak said:

while searching on the internet, I found this old post with my previous comments. So, let me clarify that I'm not wrong.

Your screenshot doesn't show which vehicle type(s) the AEY was fitted to, so proves nothing either way.

[@Lee]

I'd have waited until the four year anniversary (tomorrow) before replying. Just sayin' 

[goulbak]

On 18/12/2023 at 15:08, Breezy_Pete said:

Clearly both codes were fitted to Polos in different years of production. I see no reason to doubt the OP has/had an AEY in his/hers. 

Injection timing graph is different.

 

On 18/12/2023 at 15:40, Paws4Thot said:

Your screenshot doesn't show which vehicle type(s) the AEY was fitted to, so proves nothing either way.

ASY : fit Polo Mk4 , Skoda Fabia MK1 ...

AEY : fit Polo Mk3

 

On 18/12/2023 at 16:12, @Lee said:

I'd have waited until the four year anniversary (tomorrow) before replying. Just sayin' 

I beleave information will be helpful forever.

 

Have a nice day.

[Breezy_Pete]

54 minutes ago, goulbak said:

Injection timing graph is different.

Interesting, thanks for posting.

 

I see from the few other posts by @poloSDI that he/she had a 2006 Polo (for example this one), so if this thread relates to that car you were right, ASY! 😁

 

A good example of why it's always a good idea to tell the world exactly what car/engine code you are trying to work with when asking for help.