Change the Water pump on 1.4TSI with cambelt change

[neomancer]

I have a 1.4TSI (140) 13 plate. 

 

Cambelt is due, but i understand from and independent that the water pump is the complete other side of the engine, and not driven off the cambelt now.

 

so... like the logic of replacing water pumps with the cambelt is redundant now? its a £150 part to the indie or £100 from the dealership... but its a separate job? 

 

Anyone had much experience of this? 

 

 

Edited 3 July, 2018 by neomancer

[Gerrycan]

Water pump change is near mandatory on diesels because they have had a lot of problems with the original fitment but I have not heard of any problems at all with the 1.4tsi petrol in this Forum. 

What mileage is yours?

[themanwithnoaim]

17 hours ago, neomancer said:

I have a 1.4TSI (140) 13 plate. 

 

Cambelt is due

Says who? 

 

It's starship miles before inspection 200,000km IIRC

[neomancer]

5 years or silly miles... 

 

its only done 40k. 

 

plot thickens, the 1.4 140 has 2 electric pumps and thus does not need changing at the time of service.... apparently. 

[themanwithnoaim]

4 minutes ago, neomancer said:

5 years or silly miles... 

Oh of course there are some early ones hitting 5 years now

[neomancer]

aye. it was registered november i think. service is due next month, no point doing the cambelt 3 months later and another day without the car. 

[ScoutCJB]

5 hours ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Oh of course there are some early ones hitting 5 years now

 

I was surprised that my 65 plate Scout is 5 years or 140k .... it just doesn't seem right

[themanwithnoaim]

2 hours ago, ScoutCJB said:

 

I was surprised that my 65 plate Scout is 5 years or 140k .... it just doesn't seem right

Its only an inspection at 140k if it looks ok, they leave it

[classic]

On 03/07/2018 at 17:34, neomancer said:

I have a 1.4TSI (140) 13 plate. 

 

Cambelt is due, but i understand from and independent that the water pump is the complete other side of the engine, and not driven off the cambelt now.

 

so... like the logic of replacing water pumps with the cambelt is redundant now? its a £150 part to the indie or £100 from the dealership... but its a separate job? 

 

Anyone had much experience of this? 

 

 

 

No experience, but I have looked into it in some detail for my 2014 1.4 tsi.

 

The Skoda service manual, (which someone provided a link to on another cambelt thread), states the cambelt should be inspected at 240000 km (160000miles). It also states that the water pump belt - which IS driven from the camshaft but with its own separate belt - should also be inspected at the same mileage. After the initial check the belt should be re inspected every 30000 km. There is no age limit, however Skoda UK say replace the belt at 160000 miles or 5 years.

When these engines were introduced VW group and the belt manufacturers made a big deal about the belts being designed to last the life of the engine. They have subsequently gone very quiet on the subject and in the UK the 5 year  time limit came in.

I think the belt manufacturers want to sell belts, and the car manufacturers want to sell cars. The humble owner doesn’t want to risk a belt breaking so ends up not daring to ignore the time limit...and either has it done or decides that’s a good point to change the car.

My previous 2006 1.6 petrol Zafira had a 100 k miles or 10 year cam belt change interval. I had it changed at 10 years, no issues, it didn’t break. Now the Skoda belt can do 160k miles but apparently only has a 5 year life, it doesn’t make sense.

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, classic said:

The Skoda service manual states the cambelt should be inspected at 240000 km (160000miles). There is no age limit, however Skoda UK say replace the belt at 160000 miles or 5 years.

 

Welcome to the world of VWgroup abiguity. Little wonder even the dealers can't agree between themselves let alone ask Joe Public what service/maintenance should be done.

 

Wonder if it's a language problem and it's all simply down to bad translation. Anyone know the German manual says?

 

[Ootohere]

Location location location, different schedules / guidelines by different countries.

 

If you own a car from new and it is a keeper you know how you drive and maybe you go longer on cam belts, or maybe you know not to.,

Used / pre-loved, cherished, used and abused ex management / fleet/ lease / hire / driving school / ex motabilty cars or ones little old ladies drove get done sooner rather than later.  Those FULL MAIN DEALER SERVICE HISTORY ones where not much ever gets done.

[neomancer]

well, now i'm more confused, dealership checked my vin and said both pumps are electric and thus a cambelt only change is fine, the indies i've spoken to also said the same :\

 

different engines i'm guessing.. :s

[classic]

If yours is a CHPA engine code then it has a cam driven (by rubber belt) water pump. There are electric pumps as well, one of which is to protect  the turbo.

 

Its worrying the dealers/specialist don’t know this.

 

https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-511-new-ea211-petrol-engine-family/

 

page 13 for  the timing belt, page 36 for cooling system 

Edited 4 July, 2018 by classic

[neomancer]

CHPA, so the dealership are useless then... and they want me to bring my car to them for work :/

 

So... with a cambelt change is there any point getting the water pump done if its not part of the works.

 

historically on my old FSI MK2 it was the done thing as they could seize and then trash the cambelt, i don't see the logic now. especially when the waterpump is £150.. 

 

 

 

 

[classic]

It seems to me that if the water pump seizes on a 1.4 tsi it will only trash it’s own little drive belt. 

I don’t think the dealers have done many of these belts as yours is one of the first 5 year old ones. Hopefully the actual technicians know what to do and it’s just the receptionist/service advisors who don’t yet have the knowledge.

 

[neomancer]

He went out and spoke to a tech who clarified. ugh.. 

 

Will give Skoda UK a call about it. really shouldn't be so painful an experience. 

[neomancer]

Dealer are adamant that it needs to be done. given them a call about it again and spoke to someone else, she thinks the water pump is off the cambelt, even though the drawing i have says otherwise.

 

Second dealer agrees there is no logical reason to change the water pump. plus the part is more than Skoda charge for the water pump (150), plus according to her system it doesn't mention anything about the waterpump as part of the servicing options for my car...

Waiting for a call back from Skoda UK about this... FML


Hopefully my pain now will help someone in the future!

[xman]

The water pump iirc is a complex dual circuit pump which can control flow to different circuits. It is a complex looking beast and probably very expensive.

 

The small belt is the size of a vacuum cleaner belt and as such is likely to last the life of the engine. As someone pointed out, if it fails, its not immediately disastrous, just get overheating.

 

 

Edited 5 July, 2018 by xman

[fabdavrav]

I have the CHPA engine & all the VAG documentation on these engines..& the self study guides which the dealers & techs for the most part don't read.....

 

There are several water pumps, only one is part belt driven & NOT on the timing belt..on the other side on own belt so if the impellor jambs it will shred that belt & not the main timing belt...which was the reason for swapping the previous water pumps as the plastic impellor would separate off the brass /metal spindle...

 

& according to VAG ERWIN servicing for June 2017 NO change on timing belts for UK condition.........CHPA engines....however others on MK7 Golf forum have reported that VW UK are now saying every 5yrs??....& yes these are "for life ultra durable belts in special sealed timing belt covers etc to keep more dust out....

 

 

 

[Emerlist]

Hi Neomancer

I was wondering how this all finished up for you?

I have a 2014 VW Polo Blue GT. I think that it is basically the same engine as you. Type EA211, 1.4 litre, turbocharged, cylinder deactivation on cylinders 2 and 3 on light load, 148bhp.

I have just had the cambelt changed at the VW main dealer. Initially I went for getting the cambelt and water pump changed. They recommended this, as it’s easy to change the pump when it’s stripped down for the cambelt.

When I got the car back, I noticed that a water pump was not listed in the parts. The guy asked the mechanic who said that the pump was on the other side of the engine so there isn’t a benefit in changing it while doing the cambelt. (On a diesel, the pump is under the cambelt so it is worth changing it.)

I pointed out that they recommend changing the pump on diesel AND petrol. Some muttering about need to contact customer services.

I wondered if they were feeding me a line, to cover forgetting to change the water pump so I have been looking online for confirmation of what they said.

I was relieved to find your post saying that the pump is remote from the cambelt.

[Ju1ian1001]

On 04/07/2018 at 11:31, neomancer said:

5 years or silly miles... 

 

its only done 40k. 

 

plot thickens, the 1.4 140 has 2 electric pumps and thus does not need changing at the time of service.... apparently. 

It does have 2 water pumps, one secondary pump to cool the turbo which is electric and one main pump which is engine driven off the balancer shaft i think, so need to change it along with the cambelt.

[neomancer]

19 minutes ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

It does have 2 water pumps, one secondary pump to cool the turbo which is electric and one main pump which is engine driven off the balancer shaft i think, so need to change it along with the cambelt.

SkodaUK said otherwise. 

 

It was only ever done before due to it being exposed pretty much on the cambelt changed and it was a risk for snarling up cambelt/impeller problems. 

 

That water pump is an entirely different part and around £200 + labour, on top of cambelt change.

 

Skoda's price is like £50 extra for a water pump - so no way that would be included in their waterpump change. 

 

Wouldn't worry about it if it's the same engine..  as the previous posts say, you might get a cooling issue but it's entirely different from previous designs and their issues 

 

 

Edited 20 September, 2019 by neomancer

[KenONeill]

@neomancer - You're correct; the "change the water pump as well as the cambelt" thing comes from the 1.9D and 1.8T families where the water pump is driven off the cambelt and seems to have a life of about 1.5 cambelt changes.

[Emerlist]

Thanks everyone for their responses.

I am happy that the mechanic was not making it up to cover forgetting to change the pump.

It’s a bit concerning that the service advisors are giving out advice without understanding the situation. He would have charged me the extra £50 if I hadn’t queried it. I wonder how many other people have been overcharged.

[MarkyG82]

On ‎21‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 00:38, Ju1ian1001 said:

It does have 2 water pumps, one secondary pump to cool the turbo which is electric and one main pump which is engine driven off the balancer shaft i think, so need to change it along with the cambelt.

 

So, we can all agree that it is belt driven off a secondary belt.  With that being the case, no belts are able to last the life of the engine as they are flexing and stretching permanently.  So, they will need changing at some point.

When this is sounds like its down to the owner as the guidance and all over the place.  I good halfway house to me would be every other cambelt or 5 year intervals offset by 2.5 to the cambelt?