Death of diesel

[Lady Elanore]

a few years ago I was driving back to Manchester from London in convoy with a colleague, when he sort of offered to do a speed test. Obviously we stayed within legal limits and were definitely not racing, but the interesting thing was from a rolling start up to a rather high speed there was nothing in it, if anything I had gained a foot. His car, the claimed much quicker one, was an Audi TTS with around 300PS, my car a Merc C350 CDi ( ridiculously named AMG Sport Plus) with around 256PS and a shed load of torx, oh and it weighed nearly 500KG more. Having established my MB was a lot quicker than he expected we carried on at speed up the motorway until I pulled off near South Manchester. At this point I called him to ask his mpg, 35 ish was his figure, mine was around 43! So my car was quicker, a lot heavier, more economical and occasionally more fun to drive (RWD) and it was a dreaded diesel.

 

He was so hacked off, he traded it in shortly afterwards and got a TTRS. I didn't bother trying a side by side test with that one, although I think I had his economy licked  

[lol-lol]

5 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

I just did a double check on the Euro status of my diesel as it came out around the change over period to Euro 6. Thankfully I'm safe for now. 

 

Might be for now but maybe not tomorrow if the 45 UK cities due to adopt emission controls like Paris has, and other European cities similar, as Euro 6 die-sels are categories as Category 2 - Yellow with Euro 4 and 5 petrols and not in the Green or even Purple Categories top two categories which would affect cost and even permission to enter the city during poor air quality times.

Such measures will continue to push down diesel residuals, like it has in the UK's September car sales when less than 30% are now diesels. 

 

==============================================================================================

[Lady Elanore]

You must be a hoot at parties. 

 

The meaning of my words "...I'm safe for now" means I understand that in this present moment I am not subject to the emission zone charging's but in the future this may not be so and that I have indeed done some research to enable me to be aware of the situation.

 

Thank you for repeating this message for me, but there really was no need (see my previous post for details) 

[lol-lol]

8 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

You must be a hoot at parties. 

 

The meaning of my words "...I'm safe for now" means I understand that in this present moment I am not subject to the emission zone charging's but in the future this may not be so and that I have indeed done some research to enable me to be aware of the situation.

 

Thank you for repeating this message for me, but there really was no need (see my previous post for details) 

 

If it is motorcycle or cars it would probably be BREXIT but then that is what I have to do all day and even I get tired of that topic sometimes, too dreadful to contemplate for too long.  At least I can get an Irish passport  and pretend it was not me. 

[xman]

2 hours ago, Wino said:

Do you think the chemical and thermodynamic advantages of diesel go away when larger/heavier vehicles are considered?

 

I'd be more interested in responding to that question if you present evidence which filters out all the cars that were built or designed in the last century and instead just looked at data from euro 6 compliant or later vehicles we can buy today and will still be allowed to drive, five years from now.

 

Economy data generated by cars built 20 years ago is irrelevant to discussions about the next 5 to 10 years, as they will be banned for environmental reasons if not already scrapped.

Edited 5 October, 2018 by xman

[moley]

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

 At least I can get an Irish passport  and pretend it was not me. 

I thought you had dropped the idea of an Irish passport due to their change in the abortion laws.

 

 

Quote

I have given up the idea of an Irish passport, would not want to be associated with a pro-abortion country, my choice, saves a hundred or so quid getting an Irish passport.

 

[Ootohere]

Diesels are not dead yet with Skoda. 

 VW have engines that need to get more sales out of yet.

 

 

[lol-lol]

4 hours ago, moley said:

I thought you had dropped the idea of an Irish passport due to their change in the abortion laws.

 

 

 

 

Still do not like the idea of associating with that part of their emerging national character (Irish) but not much of choice really.  Can only get a Irish dual nationality, due to my heritage,  along with my British passport, to save me getting visas, possibly, post BREXIT.  Not happy about it but as I go to Europe quite often with customs work I want to make moving around as easy as possible. 

Edited 6 October, 2018 by lol-lol

[lol-lol]

4 hours ago, Offski said:

Diesels are not dead yet with Skoda.        VW have engines that need to get more sales out of yet.

 

 

VRS will be Kodiaq Flagship model but how many will they really sell in the UK or Ireland, a  couple percent of overall Kodiaq sales.  Who is going to pay over £40K for a Skoda badged cars, about 50k Euros in Ireland.      At least it is SCR, AdBlue.  How is your AdBlue consumption working out for you SEAT ?             

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-tech/96793/what-is-adblue 

Euro6 emissions regulations and SCR tech mean AdBlue usage is increasing rapidly – but what is AdBlue?

You’ve probably seen containers of AdBlue stacked up for sale at filling stations, but unless you’ve owned a diesel powered car or van that’s fitted with SCR – or Selective Catalytic Reduction – you’ve probably not had to buy or use it.  So if you’re not sure what AdBlue is for, which vehicles use it and where and how often you need to top it up, don’t worry as you’re not alone. Our guide to AdBlue tells you everything you’ll need to know. So what is in AdBlue?  AdBlue is a liquid solution of urea (the stuff found in urine), and when it meets a hot exhaust system it releases ammonia which is a catalyst to a chemical reaction that converts dangerous Nitrogen Oxides into two harmless products – water vapour and Nitrogen. ............

So if you have AdBlue in your vehicle, the chances are it will be in a much smaller tank, and so you’ll need to top it up yourself.

 

• Euro 6 emissions standards and what they mean for you

 

With tanks varying in size from 5 to 20 litres, and a mid-size family diesel consuming a litre of AdBlue every 600-odd miles, the requirement to top up the AdBlue may be quite frequent for high mileage diesel drivers.  Fortunately, you car will monitor consumption and give you a series of dashboard warnings as the level drops. It’s wise not to ignore them, as once the AdBlue is all gone the car may not start until the tank is topped up again. (This is to ensure cars don't drive illegally with high exhaust emissions.) 

 

 

Which vehicles use AdBlue and SCR?

Heavy goods vehicles – trucks, coaches and buses – have been using SCR technology and AdBlue from as long ago as 2004, and some passenger car manufacturers have been using it for nearly as long. Mercedes and Volkswagen, for example.  It’s the latest Euro VI emissions regulations from the European Commission that have really driven an explosion in SCR technology from the passenger car perspective in Europe, though. The Euro VI regs introduced in 2014/15 demanded nitrogen oxides emissions be cut by a whopping 56 per cent compared to Euro V levels. For most diesel engines over 1.6-litres in capacity, AdBlue and SCR technology has been the only means to achieve this – so most new diesels over that size will feature an AdBlue tank from now on.             • New diesel car tax rule changes explained

 

Edited 6 October, 2018 by lol-lol

[moley]

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Might be for now but maybe not tomorrow if the 45 UK cities due to adopt emission controls like Paris has, and other European cities similar, as Euro 6 die-sels are categories as Category 2 - Yellow with Euro 4 and 5 petrols and not in the Green or even Purple Categories top two categories which would affect cost and even permission to enter the city during poor air quality times.

Such measures will continue to push down diesel residuals, like it has in the UK's September car sales when less than 30% are now diesels. 

 

==============================================================================================

I have the yellow No2 sticker in my Octavia for when I was working in Paris last year. I didn't actually need it because it only applies to the centre of Paris inside the inner ring road and I was working 3-4kms outside in Noisy le sec. Currently you need a minimum No4 sticker to drive in the city centre in the day, Monday to Friday. Not sure why anyone in their right mind would want to drive in the centre of Paris anyway as the standard of driving in the suburbs was bad enough. 

[Ryeman]

Not so fast!

In the US toxic algae blooms, harvested commercially, might actually lower CO2 emissions and power diesel into the future -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1119155_algae-blooms-could-be-a-boon-for-eco-diesel-under-doe-funded-project

 

[Ootohere]

lol-lol,  i would hazard a guess that SEAT managed to still have a Defeat Device or just the 'Software' still in 2016 that could have the Adblue just being sipped from the tank after 

the first re-fill.  Big enough tank but it first showed 7,000 miles range, next top up was 7,500 miles range so maybe more Ad-Blue in, then next fill showed 8,000 miles range and that is not dropping that quickly.   The car absolutely drinks fuel with short runs of just a few miles.  That uses twice as much fuel as it does if 10 miles or more is driven and the engine up to heat so i no longer use it for local use.

 

The 'Coasting Function', Autohold, the E-Brake and Stop / Start are perfect and can be used as you wish, the most surprising thing with the 

6 speed DSG is that if you select too low a gear with DSG normally 'the brain says no' ignore, user error, 

With these DSG it does what you tell it, select too low a gear and it goes into it like down to 2nd from 5th, or if you go manual it stays there and will not be forced to change up or go back to 'D'.   User beware, but it does put you in control, Automated Manual....

Edited 6 October, 2018 by Offski

[YS53]

posted by mistake LOL

Edited 6 October, 2018 by YS53

[Breezy_Pete]

9 hours ago, xman said:

 

I'd be more interested in responding to that question if you present evidence which filters out all the cars that were built or designed in the last century and instead just looked at data from euro 6 compliant or later vehicles we can buy today and will still be allowed to drive, five years from now.

 

Economy data generated by cars built 20 years ago is irrelevant to discussions about the next 5 to 10 years, as they will be banned for environmental reasons if not already scrapped.

 

I have every confidence that your ability to filter data on Spritmonitor.de would equal or exceed mine, so feel free if you wish. 

 

The discussion started with the very sensationalist and prejudicial "Death of Diesel" title being inferred from one manufacturer whose core business has always been petrol cars dropping diesel engines. Hardly a discussion about which cars may or may not be banned from certain cities at some future time. The overall fuel efficiency data posted by that nimblefins website pertains to all the cars on Spritmonitor, not just older ones, so the most representative data available on the current CO2 production by cars that I can imagine.

For me, the impact of CO2 on the long term future of the planet is of far more concern than what happens in a few cities in the short term.

[Ootohere]

What happens in a few cities is rather important though.

The Population of London being more than the combined population of Scotland & Wales.

 

The Impact of CO2 is very relevant, but then the lack of any real action from the Governments getting the highest polluters off road in Cities, Towns & travelling anyplace around the countries is what matters.

Chris Grayling MP can oversee Train Timetable changes that cut train services and made people need to use cars again.

Edited 6 October, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

 

The discussion started with the very sensationalist and prejudicial "Death of Diesel" title being inferred from one manufacturer whose core business has always been petrol cars dropping diesel engines.

 

Overreaction Wino!

 

I posted it simply as an interesting bit of news with dieselgate still in full swing and how some manufacturers are reacting.

 

No world crusade implied just modern journalistic clickbait.

 

Skoda have dropped all diesels from the Fabia is another example.

 

Discussion not grandstanding.

 

According to many manufacturers, all ICE will shortly be replaced by electric anyway but that's Ryeman's thread.

 

Personally modern diesels are fine by me but not those old smokers and those that have deliberately and illegally modified their cars to put out tons of smoke/particulates every time they press the gas pedal, probably the equivalent of hundreds of legal cars.

 

Another annoyance are the noise merchants. If it were up to me they would be caught and their cars crushed.

 

[xman]

4 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Not so fast!

In the US toxic algae blooms, harvested commercially, might actually lower CO2 emissions and power diesel into the future -

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1119155_algae-blooms-could-be-a-boon-for-eco-diesel-under-doe-funded-project

 

And in other news, wind farms that hope to power all those EVs that are coming are (allegedly) increasing global warming!  

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/612238/wide-scale-us-wind-power-could-cause-significant-warming/amp/

[Ootohere]

Oil Sands Extraction, Fracking, Coal Seam Gas Extraction and coal mining and Oil & Gas drilling then burning those fuels to produce electricity will be the saviour of the world. Not!

 

That Fracking in England started well yesterday, or might have if the Court had not delayed things.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-45758116

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 October, 2018 by Offski

[Ryeman]

There was a new item last night about Port Augusta’s  (SA..... the state with the Tesla battery.....an outstanding success) solar farm and it’s central molten salt 

tower which apparently stores the resultant heat ......like a thermos I guess.

The way things are going there are so many balls in the air in research institutions all you can guarantee is that, as always, there will big winner and losers.

[Ootohere]

The free range hens and the sheep seem happy as Larry under the turbine today, but then they do not know what the future holds.

Just shortly they might appreciate some Localized Warming at ground level.

Edited 6 October, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/diesel-deaths-–-complete-list-2018s-axed-models

[Sad555]

And the price of diesel keeps rising!

[Ootohere]

The cost of Crude Oil is rising globally, is petrol not also rising in price? 

 

Diesel up will put up haulage / transportation so food and all products so the cost of living, 

and Philip Hammond MP will be having to give those on a Government Pension a higher percentage rice by whatever that is decided by these days.

 

Diesel produced as part of the refining process from refining petrol, & petrochemicals, so is someone at it?

 

 

Edited 10 October, 2018 by Offski

[lol-lol]

So Porsche/VW are continuing with diesels.......

 

 

 

Looks like diesels have found there raison d'être  (to carry petrol cars around during the boring bits of road......

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

^^^ Have VW not got that Transporter running just on Electric after all the advances they are making with ID?

Or is that a Diesel Hybrid?

 

 

BMW say to some that they are sticking with diesels but then maybe the German Government had said we have your back and now might be having to change that.

Then there is the Diesel Hybrid Kidology that is catching them out.

 

Maybe in the USA they will find out they are producing lots of Gasoline & Diesel and the 'Rest of the world' are not that interested in buying as much diesel as they thought they would be for passenger car use.

BMW diesel engine cars - Carmaker sticks by fuel type despite backlash _ Express.co.uk.mhtml

Drivers are being denied the chance to buy hybrid cars by manufacturers _ This is Money.mhtml

Edited 15 October, 2018 by Offski