Another Fabia 1.8T advice thread.

[Mr-Bishi]

Heya all, 

 

Long old back story for another day but, I have a 1.4MPI Fabia and I'm going to stick a 1.8T lump into it. 

 

I'm going into this build with an open mind and the intention of challenging myself on a mechanical front. 

 

I've read and scrutinized many of the other build threads out there, most of which are geared around swapping all the guts from an Ibiza FR to create a Fabia FR.

 

I'm a dealer technician for Mitsubishi so mechanically and electrically, none of this is too crazy but my decision was to build this car in a different way. 

 

A couple of areas here and there have caught my attention as bits that may end up being slightly bumps in the road for what I'm planning to do. 

 

I have the car.

I have a complete AUQ lump with clutch, flywheel, ancillaries etc (From a Léon).

I have the ECU, convenience module, keys, immo coil, clocks etc from an Octavia VRS.

I have several spare engine bay looms, auxillary looms and fuse box looms. 

I have access to ElsaWin.

 

I have a week booked off work, though my boss has allowed me use of my bay and ramp for this week, so technically still at work only not working. 

 

As it stands at the moment my intention is to use the original gearbox on the Fabia with the AUQ engine for the short term, to fit the 1.8T into the Fabia and keep it running with the intention of uprating the gearbox at a later date. 

My main reasons for wanting to do this are that I don't have much knowledge as to the interchangeability of the drive shafts (Length, splines, hub fitment etc)

And I would like to limit the amount of faffing with the engine mounts and such as much as possible. 

 

Here the main issue I have is that I'm fairly certain the clutch assembly that came with my AUQ will not be compatible with the shaft on the stock gearbox as I think the splines are different, possibly the clutch mechanism too though the Fabia lump is still whole and driveable. 

 

My current work around idea for this is to look into getting the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate for a Mk1 Octavia VRS running the AUQ lump and a 5 speed box, with the expectation that the bolt pattern will be the same on the flywheel/crank as the original Leon kit.  

But my concern is that the Fabia starter motor will not mesh correctly with this flywheel, the spline teeth to output shaft will be different, essentially I'll be making assumptions that this will work only to find it won't. 

 

Through my research I've found that the majority of VW engines and gearboxes have the same bolt pattern regardless of being 5/6 speed and that there are many combinations out there. 

 

TL;DR:

 

Is there a clutch/flywheel combination that will mate an AUQ engine to a stock Fabia 1.4MPI 5spd gearbox?

 

[sepulchrave]

I think the base 1.4 MPI is the wrong starting point for this project, it has very weak running gear and brakes, the gear ratios and final drive are unsuitable, you need the 2.0 for the best possible starting point, big brakes, suspension and a strong gearbox as standard.

[Breezy_Pete]

@Tech1e for excellent guidance...

[Tech1e]

MPi box will crap itself very quickly. 

 

Thats even if you managed to get it mounted. The MPI engine isn’t a VW engine. 

Edited 28 September, 2018 by Tech1e

[TMB]

13 minutes ago, Tech1e said:

MPi box will crap itself very quickly. 

 

 

 

Definitely 

[Mr-Bishi]

Thanks for your responses chaps. 

 

So source another box before proceeding?

 

I'm not sure if I was a bit ambiguous before, I'm not intending on smashing this car round any B roads or tracks as it is. 

 

Everything will be uprated where possible, though I'm trying to do this in stages and still have the capacity to drive the car to the workshop and back after completing a phase. 

 

Current phase is grafting the engine into the Fabia and getting it running. It would be nice to drive the car home afterwards, though if this is not feasible then it will be towed. 

 

[Tech1e]

There is no grafting required as such. All the correct mountings etc are available off the shelf.

 

You will need the correct gearbox, the 02J from the Leon etc has a different casing where the mounting bolts onto. The mounting can be refabricated but its easier just to get the right gearbox in the first place. You will have to then get the speedo drive etc sorted out as the MPI will use an impulse sender and not the ABS signal like the later cars do.

Edited 3 October, 2018 by Tech1e

[Mr-Bishi]

Thank you @Tech1e for the information. 

 

Is this a conversion you have done in the past and do you have a build thread at all I can spend some time looking at?

 

There are a few 02J boxes about on eBay at the moment so I'll be looking to pick one up in the coming weeks before I begin the swap. 

 

I have a leisurely timescale for this, the build is more about testing myself than chasing any Dyno numbers or lap times. 

 

Just reread your post, is an 02j not the correct box for this application? 

Edited 3 October, 2018 by Mr-Bishi

[Tech1e]

17 minutes ago, Mr-Bishi said:

Thank you @Tech1e for the information. 

 

Is this a conversion you have done in the past and do you have a build thread at all I can spend some time looking at?

 

There are a few 02J boxes about on eBay at the moment so I'll be looking to pick one up in the coming weeks before I begin the swap. 

 

I have a leisurely timescale for this, the build is more about testing myself than chasing any Dyno numbers or lap times. 

 

Just reread your post, is an 02j not the correct box for this application? 

 

Yes the car pictured is my car and I converted it myself. 

 

As as I mentioned the 02J box won’t fit without modification. The 02R is the correct box and will bolt up. 

 

I have a thread on here on here for the project. 

[Mr-Bishi]

Cheers @Tech1e

 

I've had a bit of time to read through that all and a catch up. 

You've got a pretty involved project going on!

Some interesting stuff there. 

 

Did you trim back the ancillary plate holding the alternator/PAS/AC pumps?

The engine is incredibly clean without all the extra pcv/sai Medusa lines running amoc. 

 

My other query is cheating a little as I was looking to try and figure this one out solo but, the Fabia PAS system, from the information I've found is column based (possible I've misunderstood this) and is electro hydraulic?

Have you found a way to run this effectively using the loom from the donor car?

I've started looking through ElsaWin at the circuitry involved with the system but haven't had too much time to scrutinize it. 

 

Does the pump receive a traditional signal from a steering angle sensor in the column via ECU or is this system relatively self contained?

 

[Mr-Bishi]

@Tech1e

 

This was the thread I found, is this a different project?

 

 

[Tech1e]

23 minutes ago, Mr-Bishi said:

@Tech1e

 

This was the thread I found, is this a different project?

 

 

 

Yeah that was my first 1.8T. 

[Tech1e]

32 minutes ago, Mr-Bishi said:

Cheers @Tech1e

 

I've had a bit of time to read through that all and a catch up. 

You've got a pretty involved project going on!

Some interesting stuff there. 

 

Did you trim back the ancillary plate holding the alternator/PAS/AC pumps?

The engine is incredibly clean without all the extra pcv/sai Medusa lines running amoc. 

 

My other query is cheating a little as I was looking to try and figure this one out solo but, the Fabia PAS system, from the information I've found is column based (possible I've misunderstood this) and is electro hydraulic?

Have you found a way to run this effectively using the loom from the donor car?

I've started looking through ElsaWin at the circuitry involved with the system but haven't had too much time to scrutinize it. 

 

Does the pump receive a traditional signal from a steering angle sensor in the column via ECU or is this system relatively self contained?

 

 

Didnt have to cut the bracket. Everything was donated from an Ibiza. 

 

The PAS is electro hydraulic, the pump sits behind the front bumper. 

 

PAS system is untouched. 

Edited 3 October, 2018 by Tech1e

[TrevorB33]

Your still better off getting an ibiza fr 1.8t to start with as you can get working mot’d ones for easily less then 1k, by the time you’re found a box/engine mounts and driveshafts/starter motor/clutch, correct engine loom etc why cause yourself all the extra hassle. There’s probably 3/4 1.8t Fabia build threads if you have a look back through the Fabia builds section

Edited 3 October, 2018 by TrevorB33

[Mr-Bishi]

37 minutes ago, TrevorB33 said:

Your still better off getting an ibiza fr 1.8t to start with as you can get working mot’d ones for easily less then 1k, by the time you’re found a box/engine mounts and driveshafts/starter motor/clutch, correct engine loom etc why cause yourself all the extra hassle. There’s probably 3/4 1.8t Fabia build threads if you have a look back through the Fabia builds section

 

I know it sounds a bit daft but this is all because I really want to push myself to my limits. 

 

I've spent the last couple of years with close friends putting engines into various Japanese cars, rebuilding an S2000, swapping an RB into a Silvia, Turboing Mx5s... it's all good fun and the journeys have been really enjoyable. 

 

I want to enjoy that same journey on the car that got me started. 

 

My TDI Fabia and the help of a group of good friends were the first baby steps I took to get into the industry. 

I started as a hobbyist and decided that I wanted to do it professionally, went to night school, got qualified, worked in a crappy garage and now I'm at the point where I'm a Professional Technician for a main dealer with a number of years experience behind me. 

I've had a lot of luck over the years, coupled with hard work and I have a job that I can't wait to get out of bed for. 

 

And it all started because I had to change a Track Rod End on a Skoda Fabia back in 2010.

I feel that, had I not bought the car and decided to try and fix it myself, I probably wouldn't be where I am today. 

 

So this is me, going back to the car that started me down the path and stepping out of my comfort zone. 

 

I know that there are things I have to overcome to make everything work correctly, I know there are easier ways of doing it (FR swap) and I know it'd be easy to sell all the bits off on eBay and make back the money I've spent. 

 

But I want to build a Fabia that makes me grin when I eventually take it to a track. 

For me this is all about the journey and getting to test my skills as a technician. 

I'm not putting any time frames on it, there's no urgency to finish it for next summer or anything like that. 

 

It might sound crazy but, this is fun.

I enjoy the journey. 

 

[fabia220]

Understand all that but even the FR route is not easy if you want everything to work.  Like you I set out with the desire to push my limits, which I certainly did bearing in mind the last engine swap I did only required a gas axe, a custom propshaft and  bit of bottle (yes I am that old!)   Like most of the other 1.8T Fabias mine is basically an Ibiza FR that looks like a Fabia.  As Trevor says, the oily bits are not difficult if you do it this way, which leaves plenty of time to suss out the electrics and electronics.  I used the Ibiza loom and spliced it to the Fabia rear end loom next to the drivers seat.  I also used the Ibiza HVAC unit and bodged the controls into the Fabia dash which works fine.  The door looms are a bit of a game, but most of the other stuff like the stalks and instruments fit without too much messing about.  One thing that is fiddly is the dash/switch illumination which I elected to do in red as it was less work than green, but it still takes a bit of time.   In the end I got it all working including the locking, the windows, the elecric mirrors, the climate control etc.  I realise you know what your at, but I'm pretty sure this would be a nightmare if you have different sources for the component parts however good you are at reading a wiring diagram and using VCDS.  Even so there was a lot of stuff I could not have done without the help I had from the top team that is Jabbasport (apart from the engine build) particularly the immobiliser gubbins. 

 

Best of luck whatever you decide...

[sepulchrave]

9 minutes ago, Mr-Bishi said:

 

I know it sounds a bit daft but this is all because I really want to push myself to my limits. 

 

I've spent the last couple of years with close friends putting engines into various Japanese cars, rebuilding an S2000, swapping an RB into a Silvia, Turboing Mx5s... it's all good fun and the journeys have been really enjoyable. 

 

I want to enjoy that same journey on the car that got me started. 

 

My TDI Fabia and the help of a group of good friends were the first baby steps I took to get into the industry. 

I started as a hobbyist and decided that I wanted to do it professionally, went to night school, got qualified, worked in a crappy garage and now I'm at the point where I'm a Professional Technician for a main dealer with a number of years experience behind me. 

I've had a lot of luck over the years, coupled with hard work and I have a job that I can't wait to get out of bed for. 

 

And it all started because I had to change a Track Rod End on a Skoda Fabia back in 2010.

I feel that, had I not bought the car and decided to try and fix it myself, I probably wouldn't be where I am today. 

 

So this is me, going back to the car that started me down the path and stepping out of my comfort zone. 

 

I know that there are things I have to overcome to make everything work correctly, I know there are easier ways of doing it (FR swap) and I know it'd be easy to sell all the bits off on eBay and make back the money I've spent. 

 

But I want to build a Fabia that makes me grin when I eventually take it to a track. 

For me this is all about the journey and getting to test my skills as a technician. 

I'm not putting any time frames on it, there's no urgency to finish it for next summer or anything like that. 

 

It might sound crazy but, this is fun.

I enjoy the journey. 

 

 

Good for you, you're doing it right by getting all the research done before you crack a nut.

[Mr-Bishi]

Thank you @fabia220, there's some great info there which is really food for thought. 

The photos as well, wow! 

 

That's such a clean install, and the intake manifold given the old switcheroo, there's so much to take in from just those few photos. 

 

Boosting the engine was another factor I've been looking at over the last few days and exploring the various possibilities. 

 

 

I can fully appreciate the guidance and experience that is being shown so far through this thread, it's not falling on deaf ears and I'm fully expecting to come up against a challenge that I'm simply unable to overcome or totally unprepared for. 

I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm being pigheaded or stubborn, I just really enjoy getting stuck into things like this and the satisfaction that comes when the key is turned for the first time with a successful firing of the engine (or not!)

[fabia220]

You're very welcome mate...  A lot depends on what you want the car to be - I wanted 'factory' not 'track day' which meant a lot of extra grief because I wanted to keep all the stuff that usually gets binned on a track car, but whatever you have in your mind's eye the time you are spending now just gathering info is well worth it.  My car is just one of many ways to do this swap and I certainly don't claim it's the best.  What I can say though is that it works.  

 

However - each to his own, that's the whole point of modified vehicles!  I was advised more than once to flog my VRS and buy a decent Ibiza FR.  Errm... let me explain...

 

 

[Mr-Bishi]

It's a fairly simple brief really as I'm going with this Fabia. 

 

I want to gut it completely, swap the rear drums out for calipers, put in the 1.8T and appropriate gearbox, full cage, racing seats, harnesses then get out onto a couple of track days. 

But I want to enjoy the process of building it above everything else. 

 

I've spent a bit of time up to this point fitting new hubs, 312mm front brakes, pulling out unwanted interior, bigger wheels, researching and planning out the next steps. 

 

I really respect your philosophy and I agree, modifying a car is all about having the freedom to play around and turn it into what you want. 

 

When it comes to the JDM crowd, especially the Silvia, getting the RB, rebuilding it, fitting the gearbox from a 350z, all these things that should have been deal breakers in the build have been little more than bumps in the road.

All the times the Mx5 threw it's auxillary belts off down the motorway, the head gaskets it blew, oil cooler exploding....

At no point did either of the owners give up and decide that they'd had enough or that it was impossible. 

We supported each other and kept going until we got it right. 

 

I have so much admiration for that level of ambition, determination and perseverance. 

It fills me with confidence in my own project, it might take a while and involve a lot of faffing about but I'm enjoying the process so far and I'm really looking forward to the next stages in the build. 

[Tech1e]

11 hours ago, fabia220 said:

Understand all that but even the FR route is not easy if you want everything to work.  Like you I set out with the desire to push my limits, which I certainly did bearing in mind the last engine swap I did only required a gas axe, a custom propshaft and  bit of bottle (yes I am that old!)   Like most of the other 1.8T Fabias mine is basically an Ibiza FR that looks like a Fabia.  As Trevor says, the oily bits are not difficult if you do it this way, which leaves plenty of time to suss out the electrics and electronics.  I used the Ibiza loom and spliced it to the Fabia rear end loom next to the drivers seat.  I also used the Ibiza HVAC unit and bodged the controls into the Fabia dash which works fine.  The door looms are a bit of a game, but most of the other stuff like the stalks and instruments fit without too much messing about.  One thing that is fiddly is the dash/switch illumination which I elected to do in red as it was less work than green, but it still takes a bit of time.   In the end I got it all working including the locking, the windows, the elecric mirrors, the climate control etc.  I realise you know what your at, but I'm pretty sure this would be a nightmare if you have different sources for the component parts however good you are at reading a wiring diagram and using VCDS.  Even so there was a lot of stuff I could not have done without the help I had from the top team that is Jabbasport (apart from the engine build) particularly the immobiliser gubbins. 

 

Best of luck whatever you decide...

 

 

 

 

Beautiful job, looks great.

 

I used the Ibiza wiring from the bulkhead forward, everything from the bulkhead is the original 1.4 16v wiring with a couple of additions (wiring for J271, coolant level light and speedo pulse).

[fabia220]

Thank you!  My problem was that the VRS bulkhead connector is different to the Ibiza one so I had to move the 'join' further towards the back of the car, and of course I had to change the instruments anyway because I needed the 8000rpm tacho.  I only worked out that I didn't have the coolant level sensor wiring after I had put the dash back, which is why the connector on the expansion tank is embarrassingly naked!   Whilst I'm in confession mode I haven't got a washer fluid level warning either because that wasn't present in the Ibiza loom, but that was a conscious decision rather than an oversight! 

[Tech1e]

1 hour ago, fabia220 said:

Thank you!  My problem was that the VRS bulkhead connector is different to the Ibiza one so I had to move the 'join' further towards the back of the car, and of course I had to change the instruments anyway because I needed the 8000rpm tacho.  I only worked out that I didn't have the coolant level sensor wiring after I had put the dash back, which is why the connector on the expansion tank is embarrassingly naked!   Whilst I'm in confession mode I haven't got a washer fluid level warning either because that wasn't present in the Ibiza loom, but that was a conscious decision rather than an oversight! 

 

Luckily enough I plugged mine all straight in and flicked the ignition on. Saw the J217 fault code which isnt surprising as the 1.4 is Siemens and the 1.8 is Motronic. I stripped the relay and wiring out of the FR loom and wired it in difrectly to the ECU and it fired up. The only code I currently have is with the checking lambda probe as I have a decat and haven't had the map tweeked to suit.

 

Factory install though, AC is in as is cruise control etc. Works exactly as the FR did.

[fabia220]

This is why all the advice is to start with a petrol Fabia and it's dead right!  Integrating the dash and door looms was a lot of work.  Pretty much every connector is different and/or in the wrong place and has to be chopped off and replaced with the Fabia one, and as already noted then there's the different illumination colours to deal with.   The fact that the Ibiza donor car was a 3 door didn't help either...  Some stuff fits straight on, like the headlight connectors - but then you find that the terminal positions are different so even that isn't plug and play. 

 

Thank God for the Erwin wiring diagrams!

[Tech1e]

48 minutes ago, fabia220 said:

 like the headlight connectors - but then you find that the terminal positions are different so even that isn't plug and play. 

 

Thank God for the Erwin wiring diagrams!

 

Yeah I found that too. I just copied the positions from the original wiring, colours were the same.