I’ve just done an oil and filter change on my Yeti using just an electric pump designed for the purpose.

 

Normally I use the pump then drain the leftover from the sump plug. Pressure of time and weather on this occasion necessitated using just the pump.

 

The engine capacity on my Yeti 170 is stated as being 4.9 litres. I only managed to get 3 out!

 

The oil was warm (c.40-50 degrees) and I used the dipstick tube and tried both the filter housing and oil filler to get more out. All to no avail.

 

Do people generally get more out than this? (Can’t believe dealers would only extract c.65% of the oil on a service change.)

 

What are the tricks to getting more oil out with a pump?

 

Or should I just accept that I can’t and drain via the sump plug every time?

 

Any helpful suggestions or questions about my technique appreciated.

IIRC some engines have sump baffles that can stop the pipe getting down to the bottom.

 

Use the sump plug instead, that's what it's there for.

Do you know what your engine code is? 

It may be as simple as the shape of the sump and position of dipstick needing the car to be parked in the best orientation on sloping ground to optimise extraction.  This came up recently on the mk1 Fabia forum about a 1.4 Tdi if memry serves, and it looked like in that case quite steeply nose-down would improve extraction quantity considerably. 

 

Dealerships should remove sump plug after all sucking has finished. It's in their instructions.

Why not wait for a better time and day and use the sump plug

I’ve just bought a powered one too, but in my next life the garage will be 2 stories with a hoist.  Aero devices are a pita.

Couple of questions:

 

1. Out of interest, if you’re going to pull the sump plug out anyway, why use a pump?

2. For the OP, was the oil level at full before you started sucking?

2 minutes ago, weasley said:

1. Out of interest, if you’re going to pull the sump plug out anyway, why use a pump?

Reduced exposure to waste oil for the (generally) professionals using the pumps. @Offski can probably elaborate on this, as he often links to some instructions for the techs.

23 minutes ago, Wino said:

Reduced exposure to waste oil for the (generally) professionals using the pumps. @Offski can probably elaborate on this, as he often links to some instructions for the techs.

 

Nonsense. They still have to handle and clean an oily pipe. Garages that Ive seen have a large barrel on wheels with a wide mouth funnel thats simply rolled under the sump when the car is on a ramp. They are obliged to remove the sump plug anyway so no time saved or more exposure, in fact more the opposite. 

 

So I can only conclude that garages will do this as a short cut to save them putting it on a ramp. Ergo not a proper oil change, especially if those sump baffles mean only 60% removed but they save £5 on oil and new plug and 15 minutes if the filter can be replaced from the top.

 

Think about this, use a pump to remove needs access from the top. Sump plug removal needs access from underneath. So car needs to be on ramp anyway, they cant drive it on after pumping out the oil.

Edited 17 October, 20187 yr by xman

I'm sure offski will be along soon enough to put you right, don't worry.

Sump baffles allow oil to pass through slowly, just not rapidly, in my understanding, so wouldn't affect an oil change.

 

4 minutes ago, Wino said:

I'm sure offski will be along soon enough to put you right, don't worry.

Sump baffles allow oil to pass through slowly, just not rapidly, in my understanding, so wouldn't affect an oil change.

So how do you get your extractor pipe to pass through a sheet of steel? 

 

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/yeti/yet/2013-666/1/103-103020/

Sorry, I thought we were talking about vertical baffles in the base of the sump to prevent surges. 

In this case the answer to your question is "the same way the dipstick does". 

A dipstick doesn't have to go to the bottom of sump, the bottom of the dipstick will only be about 1.5 litres down from the full level.

Edited 17 October, 20187 yr by xman

But it goes past the baffle, no?

Maybe, maybe not. In the OP’s case, clearly it caused an issue. Only 3 litres out of 4.9 litres extracted.

 

Do you think that would bother some garages? Would they even know? Do they measure how much came out? It went straight into the barrel....

 

"Don't worry sir, oil in diesels is always black even after changing" could be a handy phrase for them to use.

 

I simply cannot believe they would faff about, pumping oil through a dipstick which is a slow process at the best of times, if they are then going to lift the car and remove the sump plug which will still drop further oil.

 

Time is money in business and especially in servicing.

Edited 17 October, 20187 yr by xman

If the dipstick doesn't go below the baffle, that would imply that normal oil level is above the baffle; does that seem likely to you? I would say that is the least likely possible explanation for the OP's observations.

Anyway, work to do, sorry.

47 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Its not a nonsense at all.

 

All new garages that have been built in the last 15 years or so have to have an oil extraction system due to health and safety regulations. This is so carcinogenic waste liquids can be removed and then stored ready for collection without exposing the technician to them. This is why there was a swing to oil filters accessed from above which saves on labour costs.

 

However there are some engine designs that do not allow the top down service method due to sump design as mentioned elsewhere.

So they dont remove the sump plug then.

Just now, xman said:

So they dont remove the sump plug then.

 

Not if the top down service method is applicable to that engine variant.

So no guarantee oil has been drained fully.

1 minute ago, xman said:

So no guarantee oil has been drained fully.

 

Depends on the system.

 

The last Castrol system I used measured the oil removed on the same system that filled it.

 

I can tell how much is extracted with my pump at my workshop on my 2.0 Yeti and can get the near 5.0 out.

here.

Drain off or suction off engine oil.doc

Ok, thanks for the doc (of Unknown origin)

 

From that I can make the following observations

 

Instruction is to extract oil either by vacuuming via dipstick tube OR removing drain plug. Not both.

 

The 100 litre capacity workshop VAS6622 oil extractor unit doesn't appear to have any metering equipment, I can't even verify if it has a sight glass, though that's a pretty useless method  with old oil unless you've got an hour to spare waiting for it to settle and clear. It has a variety of lances and adaptors for different engines.

 

So, just my opinion, far from foolproof and much scope for sloppy use, misuse and error. It cannot drain as much as drain plug method which is pretty foolproof. In the wrong hands the suction method may and probably does leave a lot of old oil behind. Maybe on occasion, like the OP experienced , 2 litres.

 

Yes, I hear everyone saying no it doesn't happen. I've seen enough over the years in the real world to have an opinion. If it can happen, it will happen.

 

H&S argument is very weak as the unit has a large open oil catcher that is likely to be permanently coated in plenty of old oil and wafting fumes. And it still has to be emptied.

 

I am so glad I am capable of doing oil changes myself by the old unhealthy method and more reason to continue doing so.

 

Strange that VAG still fit drain plugs, millions of euros to be saved there. And fit dipstick tubes only 5 or 6 mm diameter, sometimes not straight meaning sucking oil, sludge and sundry through a 2 or 3mm id tube. Hopefully self cleaning.

 

Edited 17 October, 20187 yr by xman

16 minutes ago, xman said:

Instruction is to extract oil either by vacuuming via dipstick tube OR removing drain plug. Not both.

So it does. My apologies; I'm embarrassed not to have checked that myself before passing it on as good info.

Why are customers charged for sump plug  washers?

56 minutes ago, Sad555 said:

Why are customers charged for sump plug  washers?

 

Tradition