9 hours ago, teescom09 said:

15% + increase in electricity charges is happening now while petrol is getting cheaper by the day   

 

The poky little batteries in leafs etc are 40 kw/h when new? Assuming at least 35 kw/h to charge it up less 15% inefficiency thats  40 x 15 p (about cheapest around today, just in the middle of a switch) = £6 a charge, or with economy 7 at least £3 if you can get it charged in 7 hours, short I reckon. But you will pay over the odds for the daytime main consumer electricity so its not really £3, be back towards the £6!  To go about 100+ miles in the real world if you dare. And don't forget your petrol tank will need changing in a few years at massive cost wiping out and more, any fuel savings!!!!  Batteries gradually deteriorating, so the 100 miles will become a thing of the past while you stress out driving around in the dark, freezing to death in the winter and roasting in the summer 

 

As I said above the cost per unit is about 12 pence if one just has a non Economy 7 rate but as low as 7 pence per kWh if one has Economy 7 tariff and charges so a full 41 kWh charging for the Zoe is a fiver or less which ever way you cut it.

 

EV fans like me were shocked just how poor the LEAF 2 range turned out to be.  It is a technical marvel and loaded with clever features but the Zoe, particularly in the ZE40 R110 (hp) variant to me if the logical choice as a commuter car.  This test by the Sunday Times showed just how good it is:-

Renault will replace the battery if its performance falls below 75% with the lease arrangement no matter how many miles one has done.  Working on a Rolling Road for Piper I have seen plenty of ICE cars with 100k miles producing half their alleged hp at the back wheels so not unusual for ICE cars to have very crappy acceleration and economy over the as new manufacturer figures.  I am looking forward to the 60-65 kWh version due out next year and 2020 when I expect many to make the change to EV.    

 

 

 

Edited 21 December, 20187 yr by lol-lol

^^^ That is just pure crap really.

Taking out the Child Seats and removing the wedding ring 'for the weight reduction',  and so you can maybe pull at the office party and if you then did or were asked to give someone a lift you can not as 'your 4 seater is not really meant to go 100 miles with people in it.

 

Headlights / tail lights off, A/C off, steamy windows, radio off, pump up the tyres, buy lighter clothes and shoes. 

Plenty Zoe tail gaiters around as well.

 

If they suit peoples needs then good.

 

 

 

Edited 21 December, 20187 yr by Skoffski

It all depends on your personal needs.

If you live only 10 miles from work, as a second car, it does the job efficiently and with no city pollution.

Jump in it for the local shop run.

Just the ticket.

Buy the appropriate car.

15 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

you can get Economy 7 and even Economy 10, which charges about half that for the electricity in the cheap period with a higher rate of 15p kWh for the day time so if you use half your power during the nighttime charging one is quid in.

That means that when you are retired and at home 24/7 you pay more for heating when you need it i.e. during the day.

 

So those sort of cheap overnight tariffs work out MORE expensive for those of us who have retired.

8 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

That means that when you are retired and at home 24/7 you pay more for heating when you need it i.e. during the day.

 

So those sort of cheap overnight tariffs work out MORE expensive for those of us who have retired.

Yes, unless you have a ‘bank’ in the garage you can time shift from.

30 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

That means that when you are retired and at home 24/7 you pay more for heating when you need it i.e. during the day.

 

So those sort of cheap overnight tariffs work out MORE expensive for those of us who have retired.

 

The idea is you charge you car at night with the cheap lecky and in olden days you would have those night storage heaters but now you would use devices like the tesla battery wall mounted devices.  

I have a half tonne fish tank which has "thermal mass" which I won't go in to but one can look up.  My energy bills are about a grand a year gas and lecky for a 4 bedroom detached house and Midlands is quite cold in winter ie second coldest area after north Scotland due to distance from thermal mass of the sea. 

On 21/12/2018 at 10:26, PetrolDave said:

when you are retired and at home 24/7 you pay more for heating when you need it i.e. during the day

Not necessarily; my heating is permanently wired from the upfeed to meter B on an economy tariff, although the cooker, shower, lighting and small power are on a higher priced meter A.

ICE engines are nearly always more powerful than claimed, 10% consistently with VAG. It would be very rare for a ICE to be significantly down on power, and that would be from a fault, extreme mileage or bad maintenance. I have had many cars I did well over 100K in, running as good as the day I got them when moved on. Most ICE engines these days are good for 200K plus before needing a relatively straight forward rebuild. The reason you will have seen a few knackered cars on a rolling road is because that is why they were there. Millions of others as good as new you know nothing about. 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

The idea is you charge you car at night with the cheap lecky and in olden days you would have those night storage heaters but now you would use devices like the tesla battery wall mounted devices.  

I have a half tonne fish tank which has "thermal mass" which I won't go in to but one can look up.  My energy bills are about a grand a year gas and lecky for a 4 bedroom detached house and Midlands is quite cold in winter ie second coldest area after north Scotland due to distance from thermal mass of the sea. 

I was replying to a post where it was suggested that you should heat your home with electricity not gas - the subject of charging an EV is not relevant here.

 

Buying a Tesla wall mounted battery on a pensioners income isn't a viable option - nor is changing white goods to ones which have timers so they can run overnight on the cheaper tariff.

Edited 21 December, 20187 yr by PetrolDave

56 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The idea is you charge you car at night with the cheap lecky and in olden days you would have those night storage heaters but now you would use devices like the tesla battery wall mounted devices.  

I have a half tonne fish tank which has "thermal mass" which I won't go in to but one can look up.  My energy bills are about a grand a year gas and lecky for a 4 bedroom detached house and Midlands is quite cold in winter ie second coldest area after north Scotland due to distance from thermal mass of the sea. 

Problem with that theory is there will NOT be a cheap period when 35 million cars plug in. That will be  the peak period, off peak will be during the day. It's illogical nonsense. Plus road fuel duty will be added to it somewhere  at 60p per 10 miles minimum, making them significantly more expensive to run that ICE. Along with electricity prices constantly rising at a rate well above inflation as they are now.

 

This theory of all electric cars connecting to the national grid is the most ridiculous  of all time. It can be torn apart by dozens of arguments. In fact there isn't really a current technical  argument that can be won. Plus a large % do not want any more nuke plants end off. They are a ticking mass destruction disaster just waiting to happen. Our country is too small to get far enough away from them to be safe, radiation is the killer of all life. I think the result after we are dead will be a mix of Electric and Hydrogen, ultimately totally hydrogen but with 100% clean ICE engines not unlikely either, they have a long time to make ICE engines cleaner than electricity and thats not as difficult as you think as electric is 50% plus dirty and not likely to change significantly, gas generation is going nowhere and currently expanding with the 100's of micro ICE !! plants being installed, one just passed planning near me, will have 4 huge 6 cylinder natural gas engines installed, they are all over and expanding.. There will not be lethal 440 volt cables laying all around the pavements, that will not happen as H&S will get involved with that. In fact they should be involved now to make sure all 3 phase 440 volt charging stations are supervised by a competent person as they would have to be everywhere else. 

On 21/12/2018 at 12:32, teescom09 said:

3 phase 440 volt charging stations are supervised by a competent person

415v 3 phase surely? And in any event the "supervision" consists of an earth leakage test for each rotation once a year.

4 hours ago, KenONeill said:

415v 3 phase surely? And in any event the "supervision" consists of an earth leakage test for each rotation once a year.

415v if the line to earth voltage is 220 volts, we still have 240+  up north? All depends on the line to earth voltage and it varies. Commercially the transformers are normally tapped to 415 v ac in factories etc. Makes no difference will still make short change of you, we have used,415, 440, 550, 1100, 3.3kv, 6.6kv and 11kv 3 phase machinery and switchgear over the years. 550/1100/3.3kv was common for motors underground in a coal mine. Many Electricians over the years got hands and arms blown off by it, as well as killed. And that is when using sensitive earth leakage protection which was standard. Earth leakage protection in regard to saving life becomes much less effective when you increase the voltage. The initial whack is extremely violent before the earth leakage trip works and between phases you have no chance. 

 

Its a lot more than a earth leakage test! Mandatory earth loop impedance tests are required on the installation as well as regular inspections of everything and that includes the cables in peoples boots. Before anyone plugs in a portable 415v 3 phase cable it should be inspected by someone. And also by a competent person on a regular basis. ESPECIALLY if used in a public place, who is going to do that with Joe Public carting them around in the boot of his car in all states of disrepair ? This sets a new precedence, has this ever been allowed before, can't think of anywhere? Closest is 240 volt single phase supplies on marinas and caravan sites. Big difference between 3 phase 415 and single phase 240 as far as fault (shock) currents are concerned. The normal rules for outdoor electrical equipment is 110v centre tapped, maximum shock is 55 volts which most will survive, also inspected at least by the user before use. This is allowing totally unqualified people to plug in a 3 phase trailing cable into 415+ volts. 415 volts. has the ability to blow your limbs off as well as kill you, almost certainly  if you get yourself between the phases. To earth is 240 volts which will could easily kill you standing in a wet street,  however the earth leakage protection might save if you. If your cable electrocutes a passer by while standing on it, you will get the manslaughter charge. The whole thing is ridiculous, no other way of looking at it. It will have to be adopted by IEE regulations, that will be interesting! 

Think on the bright side. - all those new infrastructure jobs opening up.

14 hours ago, teescom09 said:

The whole thing is ridiculous, no other way of looking at it. It will have to be adopted by IEE regulations, that will be interesting! 

Wonder what/if the 19th Edition of the Wiring Regulations will have to say about EV charging cables?

 

The 18th Edition has caused some interesting discussion over AFDD usage, which doesn't bode well for the 19th Edition IMHO.

Sir James Dyson will be on the case.   He will have his 'brilliant engineers' with all the gear and lots of idea sorting out 'safe charging'.

He was right in there with Vacuum cleaners or no vacuum ones and no trailing cables. 

 

Probably once he has his vehicles ready for production he can tell the UK Government, the EU ones and those globally what is wrong with all the manufacturers chargers and charging systems that they have 'approved' & seemed safe. 

 

Sir Richard Branson as well will get in on the act.

He might not have 'Motor Engineers' at hand but he does have 'Rocket Scientists' and the best brains in the world that he managed to get in his employ for other projects.

They might just have the answers to so much that Elon Musk and his employees are not doing the best they can with the technology available.

 

Virgin Transportation & Sucking up the competition might just be the answer for the UK with entrepreneurs with the 'greatest minds, and 'loads of money'.

 

Jim Ratcliffe will be there in the mix as well, has done know a bit about energy production and has a team in place preparing for building vehicles.

 

They just need to snap up or partner with some huge corporations that are in financial difficulties.  Some with UK production facilities.

Some that are reliant on the products you produce and sell them already...

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ineos-considers-bridgend-factory-new-suv

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 December, 20187 yr by Skoffski

On 22/12/2018 at 11:17, Skoffski said:

Sir James Dyson will be on the case.   He will have his 'brilliant engineers' with all the gear and lots of idea sorting out 'safe charging'.

He was right in their with Vacuum cleaners or no vacuum ones and no trailing cables. 

Is an HT cable that will break 3 days out of warranty really a good idea?  

Sounds like a bad idea.  Which HT cable is this that will break 3 days out of warranty?    Why is Darren Brown not on the pay roll?

 Is this the ignition leads with VW 1.2 TSI's or some others?

You were the one who mentioned Dyson. My comment is based on pretty much everyone I know's experience of Dyson vacuums.

Sometimes I find it difficult to tell if Ski is being serious or just sarcastic.

 

Any discussion involving Dyson or Branson has to be sarcasm, surely.

 

And wtf is Darren Brown?

 

Edited 22 December, 20187 yr by xman

On 22/12/2018 at 13:29, xman said:

And wtf is Darren Brown?

Typo for "Derren Brown"?

And wtf is he?

On 22/12/2018 at 13:40, xman said:

And wtf is he?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown although it does describe him as "a mentalist".

@xman

Sorry Derran Brown not Darren.  The one that can tell manufacturers when to have Warranties expire so that they are no longer involved.

 

Sir Dyson is going to build EV's.  & Virgin will no doubt be investing in Charging Points as soon as the UK Government are making it worth 'Sir Richards' time.

If the UK Government are going to be involved in any infrastructure they are sure that profiting goes in the way of the chosen ones.

I doubt he burps or farts unless there is money in it for him.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-44246154

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 December, 20187 yr by Skoffski

3 hours ago, KenONeill said:

You were the one who mentioned Dyson. My comment is based on pretty much everyone I know's experience of Dyson vacuums.

Also one of Mr Dyson's victims in the past.Paid too much for one of his over-rated expensive products for it to fail to do what he alledgedly invented it to do just out of warranty. Think his business plan involves a micro chip pregrammed to fail at a specific time so you go back to Curry's and purchase his latest FLAWED and more expensive replacement. Needless to say we didn't and used our customer power to purchase a much cheaper, very reliable Henry which most commercial cleaning companies seem to use without any sucking up issues (the whole point of a vacuum cleaner surely).

On 22/12/2018 at 16:17, shyVRS245 said:

Also one of Mr Dyson's victims in the past.Paid too much for one of his over-rated expensive products for it to fail to do what he alledgedly invented it to do just out of warranty. Think his business plan involves a micro chip pregrammed to fail at a specific time so you go back to Curry's and purchase his latest FLAWED and more expensive replacement. Needless to say we didn't and used our customer power to purchase a much cheaper, very reliable Henry which most commercial cleaning companies seem to use without any sucking up issues (the whole point of a vacuum cleaner surely).

Exactly; whenever I'm asked to recommend a vacuum, I recommend a Henry, or the more powerful Harry (same design, bigger motor).