Yet more news today on BBC warning about how easy it is for theives to gain access to keyless entry cars. Yes I know how they gain entry using a booster signal device. Yes I know they can start the car and drive off.  But please, can anyone explain to me what happens after that?

 

I can see the attraction of how easy it would be to take a person's valubles if left in the car, but to actually drive off with the car -  really?  Reading about this issue over the past couple of years, not once has it been explained what happens when the booster/relay device is out of range of the key. If I drive off without keys, alarms indicate the key is out of range. Once the engine is switched off, I can't restart it (presumably this will happen when stop/start is active too?). So what's the point in stealing a keyless entry car?

 

Just wondering if keyless car theft as big a problem as people make out. Has anyone had their car stolen in this way? Does anyone know of someone else who's had a car stolen in this way? I haven't.

 

 

Edited 28 January, 20197 yr by Guest

Have a look on youtube for AutomatricsMTrak. They are a company that specialise in vehicle recovery using their own security system installed on carss, vans, farm machinery etc. They had a relay style theft on there recently. They found the car a few hundred miles away on the street, with fake plates and all the doors locked. From what I could tell the theives had either cloned or coded a new key to the car. Much like the OBD theft that was also rife.

 

It does happen, they dont do it for fun and they know what they are doing. There are websites based in europe that sell the gear to do it with. It doesnt seem too sophisticated at all and is an incredibly easy low risk way for them to operate. There are lots CCTV videos of it being perpetrated on youtube too.

 

Im not one for tin foil hats but its stopped me ticking the kessey box on two new cars so far!

One idea is to put a simple motion sensor into those keys, if no motion in last 10min, deactivate its radio.

 

I'm all for technology and I love keyless entry system. The keyless entry key for my Leaf is stored in a faraday's-case bag when at home. The signals doesn't get out of the bag, so signal boosters don't work, simple.

 

When key isn't in the car, the car wouldn't shut off while in motion for safety concerns. The thieves probably have a lock up or flatbed waiting nearby.

1 hour ago, Scot5 said:

Yet more news today on BBC warning about how easy it is for theives to gain access to keyless entry cars. Yes I know how they gain entry using a booster signal device. Yes I know they can start the car and drive off.  But please, can anyone explain to me what happens after that?

 

I can see the attraction of how easy it would be to take a person's valubles if left in the car, but to actually drive off with the car -  really?  Reading about this issue over the past couple of years, not once has it been explained what happens when the booster/relay device is out of range of the key. If I drive off without keys, alarms indicate the key is out of range. Once the engine is switched off, I can't restart it (presumably this will happen when stop/start is active too?). So what's the point in stealing a keyless entry car?

 

Just wondering if keyless car theft as big a problem as people make out. Has anyone had their car stolen in this way? Does anyone know of someone else who's had a car stolen in this way? I haven't.

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47023003

Thats the story link for anyone interested.

 

Massive problem esp in the SE and London in particular. Where I used to live in East London big issues with high end keyless entry stuff esp Range Rovers all going walkies. The vehicles are stored somewhere to see if anyone shows up from tracker companies then stripped for parts or put in shipping containers and sent overseas.

You are right once stopped they won't restart unless the devices they use can pretend to be the key or code a new one from the signal grab? or they can change/recode ECUs

 

Happy mine doesn't have kessy.

The old fashioned remote keys VW has been using for the last couple of decades aren't any better. The encryption used to generate the rolling codes is crap and easily hackable.

https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity13/dismantling-megamos-crypto-wirelessly-lockpicking-vehicle-immobilizer
https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity16/technical-sessions/presentation/garcia

Cars aren't always stolen to be used, they could be stripped down and sold for parts. Many of them end up overseas anyway I think. I can't imagine it would be too difficult for professionals to get new keys either if required and have them programmed via their dodgy network of contacts with the right equipment.

 

I have KESSY and I'm not particularly worried about it. It's something I like, it's convenient and it's something I'd actively look for in my next car.

 

There's simple and fairly low cost ways you can reduce the possibility of a relay theft but regardless I'm not entirely convinced that professionals will come looking for my 5 year old Skoda anyway, as they would with the more desirable premium stuff. It's insured and with GAP I'd probably be in a better position to buy something newer if it was never found or written off. One way to look at it, is that I'd rather it was nicked by relay, than having criminals come into my house with weapons threatening me or my family.

 

Life's too short and potentially stressful enough as it is, without worrying about keyless and whether your insured metal is going to be nicked.

Edited 28 January, 20197 yr by ahenners

1 minute ago, ahenners said:

Cars aren't always stolen to be used, they could be stripped down and sold for parts. Many of them end up overseas anyway I think. I can't imagine it would be too difficult for professionals to get new keys either if required and have them programmed via their dodgy network of contacts with the right equipment.

 

I have KESSY and I'm not particularly worried about it. It's something I like, it's convenient and it's something I'd actively look for in my next car.

 

There's simple and fairly low cost ways you can reduce the possibility of a relay theft but regardless I'm not entirely convinced that professionals will come looking for my 5 year Skoda anyway, as they would with the more desirable premium stuff. It's insured and with GAP I'd probably be in a better position to buy something newer if it was never found or written off. One way to look at it, is that I'd rather it was nicked by relay, than having criminals come into my house with weapons threatening me or my family.

Car Model, age/desirability and your location play alot into the chances of anything happening.

Golf Rs.. they are on the hit list and are keyless.

4 minutes ago, Scotty72 said:

Car Model, age/desirability and your location play alot into the chances of anything happening.

Golf Rs.. they are on the hit list and are keyless.

 

Completely agree. Golf R aren't keyless as standard. Golf R are high on the list anyway regardless of keyless. As I mentioned even if you don't have keyless and the thieves want it, they'll break into your house instead for it.

Edited 28 January, 20197 yr by ahenners

8 minutes ago, ahenners said:

 

Completely agree. Golf R aren't keyless as standard. Golf R are high on the list anyway regardless of keyless. As I mentioned even if you don't have keyless and the thieves want it, they'll break into your house instead for it.

Thats been going on for years. Again there are many factors as I said - but ultimately if you have something desirable outside your house a method will be employed if someone wants it.

Another reason I'd hope having a sister maybe not as high profile/popular brand performance model has to help?

I still think ultimately your postcode plays more into any chances - insurance premiums clear indication of this. I've noticed this with motorcycle premiums moving from east london to hampshire!

a friend of mine had their BMW 530 stolen from outside their house at 7am in the morning this exact way just before Xmas. (North London subburb).

It was apparently the 3rd car stolen from their street in exactly the same way within the same month.

 

Rang the police, they didnt even bother to visit or inform other neighbours on the way to stay safe from this, they just gave a crime number.

Rang the insurance, the asked how many keys do you have for the car, when they said 2, they agreed to pay & the money was in their account the next day.

No questions, visits or even a check they werent on the fiddle.

 

I would guess based on this these kinds of thefts are now quite common & the police dont expect to find the cars afterwards.

Probably its already broken into parts or on a container with cloned plates at calais before the police have even entered the information into their system.

Metal container, not much signal getting out of that. Especially if they disconnect the battery

2 hours ago, Scotty72 said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47023003

Thats the story link for anyone interested.

 

Massive problem esp in the SE and London in particular. Where I used to live in East London big issues with high end keyless entry stuff esp Range Rovers all going walkies. The vehicles are stored somewhere to see if anyone shows up from tracker companies then stripped for parts or put in shipping containers and sent overseas.

You are right once stopped they won't restart unless the devices they use can pretend to be the key or code a new one from the signal grab? or they can change/recode ECUs

 

Happy mine doesn't have kessy.

 

This is exactly my understanding and what I read about.  But nobody is able to explain how the system works.

 

Theives won't drive the car back to wherever they strip them for exactly the reason you state - cars may have a tracker fitted. But whenever they stop the car...  they can't start it again, can't unlock the steering etc therefore presumably they'd need a recovery truck to get the vehicle back to their premises?

 

That of course is high end vehicles. Today's news (issues highlighted by a recent Which? report) saying that owners of Ford Focus, Golf etc should be worried. Hardly high end. I have KESSY on my SEAT and SKODA and previous Renault- I'd have thought the badges would be deterent enough !

 

And the final bug bear of mine - if I want to steal a high end Range Rover, whether it be via pick-pocket, breaking and entering, hijacking or worse still brutallity, I simply take the keys from the owner. So to suggest cars with keyless entry are in someway more vunerable? Would be very interesting to discover if car crime has increased or decreased since systems like KESSY came to the market, and out of all cars stolen, how many involve relay devices.  Of course the scaremongering headline writers will never go in to detail.

2 hours ago, Gabbo said:

Rang the police, they didnt even bother to visit or inform other neighbours on the way to stay safe from this, they just gave a crime number.

Rang the insurance, the asked how many keys do you have for the car, when they said 2, they agreed to pay & the money was in their account the next day.

No questions, visits or even a check they werent on the fiddle.

 

You're 100% correct - that's been par for the course for sometime now - not enough police to investigate / too costly to investigate. And usually cheaper for insurers to pay out than get involved. Why should they - just hike up the premiums next year - problem sorted as far as they're concerned.

 

It's shocking, but that seems to be how the modern system works. There may be an argument the police / insurance industry are more responsible for car thefts than any keyless entry system.

Edited 28 January, 20197 yr by Guest

1 minute ago, Scot5 said:

Theives won't drive the car back to wherever they strip them for exactly the reason you state - cars may have a tracker fitted. But whenever they stop the car...  they can't start it again, can't unlock the steering etc therefore presumably they'd need a recovery truck to get the vehicle back to their premises?

 

Once they've gained access to the car, they can almost certainly create a new key for it.

 

7 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

And the final bug bear of mine - if I want to steal a high end Range Rover, whether it be via pick-pocket, breaking and entering, hijacking or worse still brutallity, I simply take the keys from the owner

 

It's certainly seems easier in my head to use a relay device and drive away a minute later than to mess about trying to break into a house and find the key. Assuming the owners are asleep, they probably have hours until it's reported as stolen.

 

2 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

So to suggest cars with keyless entry are in someway more vunerable?

 

They are more vulnerable as you don't need physical access to the key.

More old Skoda will get pinched than anything more recent.

The Internet Myth is that thieves avoid robbing houses with Skoda in the drive. Not because they think people save on cars and have lots worth stealing in the house.

 Might well be true.

13 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

More old Skoda will get pinched than anything more recent.

The Internet Myth is that thieves avoid robbing houses with Skoda in the drive. Not because they think people save on cars and have lots worth stealing in the house.

 Might well be true.

I still believe if you have an Octavia vRS in the drive and your neighbour has the Golf GTI or R.. the VW is always gonna attract more interest period.

3 hours ago, Scotty72 said:

Golf Rs.. they are on the hit list and are keyless.

TWOC candy around these parts.  We know two different people who've had burglaries for their Golf R keys.  When I mentioned I was thinking of a Golf R estate, my wife point blank refused.

 

S3's are another model which is always high up on a scotes wish list. 

Just now, penguin17 said:

TWOC candy around these parts.  We know two different people who've had burglaries for their Golf R keys.  When I mentioned I was thinking of a Golf R estate, my wife point blank refused.

 

S3's are another model which is always high up on a scotes wish list. 

This still leads me to my thoughts as per my post above. Skoda vs VW sister models.

Proper muppets will take a RS / S3 or GTI / R and then likely get shot by armed police. Same with a vRS not that anyone is taking a RS because it is quick or to impress other muppets.

Those looking for The Cloak of Invisibility steal Sleepers.

Just now, Scotty72 said:

This still leads me to my thoughts as per my post above. Skoda vs VW sister models.

Well we were attempted twice, several years ago.  Once was for the keys to my Mk2 Octavia vRS and the other was the Mk1 Fabia vRS.  Obviously both physical keyed cars but the intent was there and the gang which tried for the Octavia were later caught and notorious for stealing fast estates/saloons which were capable of fitting a safe in the back, non-24hr service stations being their preferred victims. 

 

I would agree though that there's still some element of badge snobbery with thieves.  Which almost offends me but I'm glad that the fast Skoda's are mostly invisible to them, in comparison to other VW group cars.   Another thing is that these cars are more often than not,  stolen to order so the intended end recipient would likely see more value in having a Golf R/S3 over a vRS or 220/280 TSI.  I hope it stays that way. 

The latest spate of vehicle thefts around here are oddly enough for Corsa's but they aren't stealing the cars, they are going for the alloys, wing mirrors, headlights and bumpers from the sporty models which are usually white/red with gloss black trim.  Obviously a strong market for them, perhaps because they are a car often picked by newly qualified, boy racer types and more likely to suffer some damage during the obligatory Nando's/McD's donut session. 

6 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

Well we were attempted twice, several years ago.  Once was for the keys to my Mk2 Octavia vRS and the other was the Mk1 Fabia vRS.  Obviously both physical keyed cars but the intent was there and the gang which tried for the Octavia were later caught and notorious for stealing fast estates/saloons which were capable of fitting a safe in the back, non-24hr service stations being their preferred victims. 

 

I would agree though that there's still some element of badge snobbery with thieves.  Which almost offends me but I'm glad that the fast Skoda's are mostly invisible to them, in comparison to other VW group cars.   Another thing is that these cars are more often than not,  stolen to order so the intended end recipient would likely see more value in having a Golf R/S3 over a vRS or 220/280 TSI.  I hope it stays that way. 

Husband of one of my Wife's friends was 'held' up in one of the East London outer zones large Tesco Carparks over the Xmas period at gunpoint and relieved of his car complete with his son's car seat and buggy in the boot. This is about as bad as it gets but luckily wasn't hurt and luckily his wife and son were at home. Quite shocking the police didn't even come out to see him.

Edited 28 January, 20197 yr by Scotty72

2 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

The latest spate of vehicle thefts around here are oddly enough for Corsa's but they aren't stealing the cars, they are going for the alloys, wing mirrors, headlights and bumpers from the sporty models which are usually white/red with gloss black trim.  Obviously a strong market for them, perhaps because they are a car often picked by newly qualified, boy racer types and more likely to suffer some damage during the obligatory Nando's/McD's donut session. 

One of my neighbours has a Corsa VXR.. but I'm in Hampshire down south

On my Superb, if you lock it with a key and then touch the door handle KESSY sensor, the indicator flashes and it de-activates the keyless entry and you can only open it with a key button press. I presume if the car has been told not to respond to KESSY signals at all then boosting them won't help. I've tried it with the key held next to the door after locking it this way and it won't open.

 

Does rely on you remembering to do it, but as mine spends a lot of time being a driveway queen I feel happier if its locked that way. 

 

Opening it with the key re-sets the KESSY and it works normally afterwards.

Edited 28 January, 20197 yr by edwards

About fifteen years ago scum broke into our home (whilst we were sleeping) to get the keys for the Subaru in the garage ( obviously stalked the house) couldn’t find the keys for the Scooby  but found van keys and took my works van,police new the culprit who was on bail at the time so waited till he finished his sentence and did him again on his release and he has spent the last fifteen years in and out of jail and prior to reading this was looking at 2 videos in local website of the same culprit being chased in stolen cars  in 2017 (again whilst on bail) with class a drugs and getting caught again so nearly half way thro a 5 year sentence so out again this year TBC.

Edited 28 January, 20197 yr by Sad555