Brexit petition

[expostmanpat]

9 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

You know that makes no sense to spend £10 and get £4 back. 

What about all the money saved by the tax payer in tarrif free trade? 20% tarriff on all german cars, how much more will your next new motor cost compared to the 0.7% of your income tax that goes to eu budget? SWMBO earns over 25k her tax return showed under £40 of her total tax for the year went into the eu budget. It will cost her more than £40 extra in health insurance if we decide to go to europe on holiday let alone the cost increase in goods. What makes anyone think that the uk can negotiate better trade deals with 3rd countries than the current negotiating power of 28 countries? We arr really showing we are good negotiaters arent we. Lmfco

Edited 28 March, 2019 by expostmanpat

[Aspman]

Headline here has it right I think

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/28/brexit-national-crisis-careers-tories-theresa-may

 

Quote

Brexit is a national crisis. Not a careers fair for 22 Tories

 

[CWARD]

12 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

Given your strident opinion of the EU, I doubt anything would satisfy you.  We get more back from the EU that we put it.  Otherwise it would be a clear and easily presentable argument as to how leaving the EU will make us better off, make more money available for the NHS, increase inward investment and improve life chances for our children.  No one anywhere has been able to make that argument.

 

You, yourself have fallen back on stuff that has been proven to be untrue for several years as your argument for leaving.  you have never presented a positive argument for leaving.

 

Thank you for telling me what I think, rather than quoting what I've said before. I have no problem with single market or the EEC. I do have a problem with EU and how it is run with legislation that goes way beyond trading together. Being in the EU doesn't improve the NHS, it does however treat it as a commercial service which in turn has helped with the privatisation of it. The UK has still received investment since Brexit but indecision is what is making some business move to the mainland and stopping them investing further until they know the outcome. Parliament is at fault of any indecision as we've not even managed to get as far a trade deal yet as we can't even decide how we will leave. If your child has the skills they will get work wherever they want as they will be in demand be that in the EU or the world beyond their borders. 

[CWARD]

4 minutes ago, expostmanpat said:

What about all the money saved by the tax payer in tarrif free trade? 20% tarriff on all german cars, how much more will your next new motor cost compared to the 0.7% of your income tax that goes to eu budget? SWMBO earns over 25k her tax return showed under £40 of her total tax for the year went into the eu budget. It will cost her more than £40 extra in health insurance if we decide to go to europe on holiday let alone the cost increase in goods. What makes anyone think that the uk can negotiate better trade deals with 3rd countries than the current negotiating power of 28 countries? We arr really showing we are good negotiaters arent we. Lmfco

 

£40 is from her direct taxation, then you have the much higher taxes paid on goods she is buying, the business she works for or the higher prices paid for buying goods from other EU members which could be imported cheaper elsewhere if it was not for the protective tariffs in place. Cars are 10.6% on the proposed tariffs in the case of a no deal.

[@Lee]

Only another 70 odd thousand before 6,000,000 

[trundlenut]

It is interesting that the Government response to the petition is basically: Shut Up! Yours concerns are not valid, we will not listen.  The Government will not revoke no matter what, regardless of the outcome, no matter what it will do to the country.

[john999boy]

2 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

Only another 70 odd thousand before 6,000,000 

At last! An on topic reply......

[@Lee]

45 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

You know that makes no sense to spend £10 and get £4 back. 

As mentioned several times in previous threads but seeing as you've (conveniently?) forgotten..................
Aide de memoire
 

Quote

“For every £1 we put into the EU, we get almost £10 back”.

https://medium.com/im-trying-to-fact-check-brexit/fact-checking-remain-do-we-get-10-for-every-1-we-put-into-the-eu-62085b8d7cb0

 

Quote

• A CBI literature review suggests that the net benefit of EU membership to the UK could be in the region of 4-5% of GDP or £62bn-£78bn a year – roughly the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland taken together.
  
   
• The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is around €7.3bn, or 0.4% of GDP. As a comparison that’s around a quarter of what the UK spends on the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spend.  The £116 per person net contribution is less than that from Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany and the Netherlands.

http://www.cbi.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/


71,000 sigs to go......................

[trundlenut]

19 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

£40 is from her direct taxation, then you have the much higher taxes paid on goods she is buying, the business she works for or the higher prices paid for buying goods from other EU members which could be imported cheaper elsewhere if it was not for the protective tariffs in place. Cars are 10.6% on the proposed tariffs in the case of a no deal.

This is rubbish.  Llike the Lisbon 2020 stuff you have posted before, it is rubbish.

 

The only person pushing this line is Minford and it has been comprehensively demolished time and time again.  Remember part and parcel of this supposed saving is that we end manufacturing and agriculture.  Managed decline is the phrase he used, just like for coal mining and the steel industry.

 

The basis that we can get stuff cheaper outside the EU is that people will buy the cheapest version and ignore everything but cost, it requires us to remove all tariffs and all standards and just go for the cheapest possible option, regardless of how it is produced, what it is in it etc.

[shyVRS245]

15 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

It is interesting that the Government response to the petition is basically: Shut Up! Yours concerns are not valid, we will not listen.  The Government will not revoke no matter what, regardless of the outcome, no matter what it will do to the country.

That 10% of the population that made a lot of noise signing the petition is probably the same noisy 10% that live in most streets all over this green island of ours. Some things never change.

[@Lee]

Interlude..............
 

 

[Ootohere]

So there is a Debate on Brexit tomorrow in the UK Parliament.

They, as in the 'master debaters' obviously think they can pull off some cunning stunt. 

 

[CWARD]

14 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

This is rubbish.  Llike the Lisbon 2020 stuff you have posted before, it is rubbish.

Wrong person, I never quoted the rubbish about having to join the Euro and the rest of that rubbish. Otherwise please quote me

 

Quote

The basis that we can get stuff cheaper outside the EU is that people will buy the cheapest version and ignore everything but cost, it requires us to remove all tariffs and all standards and just go for the cheapest possible option, regardless of how it is produced, what it is in it etc.

How much stiff comes into the EU from China and assembled here, yet you get the same item sold under numerous brands but essentially the same less brands and colour scheme  

The published tariffs in the event of a no deal where published that kept supply and still protected UK business without just passing the cost onto the public  

Salmonella egg, horse meat, red lice, Brazil meat scandals all produced with an EU stamp. EU legislation allows allows for chicken tumbling and the use of harmful chemicals in food production based on tainted proof - glyphosate

https://reut.rs/2WlZldU  VW Emmisions scandal, biggest deliberate air pollution. 

Pointless putting the EU up as model to aspire to when it is anything but  

 

[Chorlton]

13 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

That 10% of the population that made a lot of noise signing the petition is probably the same noisy 10% that live in most streets all over this green island of ours. Some things never change.

Rather a harsh generalisation. 

[@Lee]

Quote

It’s grim; but it’s a great learning experience. Has anyone learnt? Has former Brexit secretary David Davis worked out that his plan to leave the EU while retaining “the exact same benefits” as staying in the single market, was a little ambitious? Or that the Germans actually care more about the integrity of the EU than about selling Brits BMWs? Has Michael Gove finally noticed that we did not after all “hold all the cards” the day after we voted to leave? Has anyone worked out that frictionless trade is quite complicated, and that the dreary Brussels machinery does a good job for us?

We shouldn’t count on it. It is easier to blame others. Britain triggered Article 50 without having a clue what we wanted or how we were going to get it. The European Commission, by contrast, knew exactly what it was doing: the diplomats in Brussels are masters of negotiation. After all, they have been doing it for years — for us, and for the rest of the EU. Notice that they take direction from their political masters at the start, consult them as they go along, and return to them at the end. The commission is dealing with sovereign states. Our government might consider doing the same with its sovereign parliament.
 

A50 related content.
https://www.ft.com/content/5f3df8bc-4c03-11e9-bde6-79eaea5acb64?fbclid=IwAR32xUZQn628mtkS9hwObJx62NXKU_TpjrVktL9tSbUYzCzsyv_tVNkp-8M

[shyVRS245]

16 minutes ago, Chorlton said:

Rather a harsh generalisation. 

What like assuming all Russians coming to the UK are CHEESE smugglers or planning a hit with a nerve agent.

[Aspman]

Lets be honest no one inside Wesminster really gives a soite about that petition it's a distraction fomr the main business of Machivalian plotting to get the next bum in the big seat. Most of these guys are financially insulated from the impacts of any decisions they make which leave them free to play at politics and get their faces in the papers and on tv which is all spiffing good fun.

 

I reckon it's time for the Queen to go in with an Uzi

[trundlenut]

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

That 10% of the population that made a lot of noise signing the petition is probably the same noisy 10% that live in most streets all over this green island of ours. Some things never change.

So it acceptable for the government to simply ignore 10% of the population?  What if they have a sudden change of heart and commit to the Norway option.  Lots of Brexiter would be upset but ignoring would therefore be perfectly acceptable.

[trundlenut]

1 hour ago, CWARD said:

 

 

EU ARMY FFS! On and on and on and on and on you went.  You went through the sodding Lisbon 2020 list.  I didn't realise at the time.  It is in the old thread, care to deny it?

[shyVRS245]

6 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

So it acceptable for the government to simply ignore 10% of the population?  What if they have a sudden change of heart and commit to the Norway option.  Lots of Brexiter would be upset but ignoring would therefore be perfectly acceptable.

YES because they only need 35-37% of the vote to get a majority and the 52% who voted leave didn't lose any MP's their job. Apart from Cameron and May of course, what a shame 2 remainers bite the dust, poetic justice it would seem.

[@Lee]

 

[KenONeill]

6 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

who voted leave didn't lose any MP's their job

Also @CWARD Well, if employment is still rising without any further statistical fiddles being applied 12 months after Wrecksit Day I'll admit I was wrong about that effect on the economy. Are you big enough to make a similar undertaking?

[trundlenut]

11 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

YES because they only need 35-37% of the vote to get a majority and the 52% who voted leave didn't lose any MP's their job. Apart from Cameron and May of course, what a shame 2 remainers bite the dust, poetic justice it would seem.

So you will accept whatever happens because you voted leave?

[shyVRS245]

4 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

So you will accept whatever happens because you voted leave?

Nothing bad is going to happen trust me I am your friendly shrink. Keep worrying about stuff out of your control will lead to ulcers or worse. Chill and stop taking life so seriously. Your only here on this planet once so enjoy the ride.

[CWARD]

52 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

EU ARMY FFS! On and on and on and on and on you went.  You went through the sodding Lisbon 2020 list.  I didn't realise at the time.  It is in the old thread, care to deny it?

 

You mean this post 

and this

This mentions the Lisbon 2020 list but wasn't posted by me 

 

Please quote me were I went through the Lisbon 2020 or apologise for your lies. 

Edited 28 March, 2019 by CWARD