So yet another house-related expense is looming in my direction...this time it's a new boiler 😖 

 

My current combi is 17+ years old and starting to suffer with general agedness. Consequently I'm going through the process of trying to determine what to replace it with. I've had three separate installers quote for a new boiler fit and (of course!) they all recommend something different.

 

One thing they did all agree on is that Worcester Bosch are expensive and no longer lead the field when it comes to the quality of their components (i.e. they've started using a lot of plastic parts inside). So, the first decision is which brand - I've had recommended by the installers:

 

1) Vaillant (good quality, decent reputation but on the pricey side)

2) Baxi (10 year warranty, brass internals...some people think have tendency to leak, though this appears to be older models and newer models are far better)

3) Atag (yes, I'd never heard of them either!! Supposed to be good quality, reasonable price but not got same support as other makes)

 

Wondering if anyone has had personal experience of these? Tbh I'm starting to get to the point of going round in circles trying to work out the differences, so any experiences would be helpful.

 

Secondly, need to decide what size (i.e kW rating). One installer said 28, one recommend 36 as only ~£150 more and gives far better hot water flow rates...and the third said it was up to me! Any advice? It's a 3 bed semi, 7 radiators and 1 bathroom. It's possible there might be extra in the future but not any time soon.

 

Any pointers very gratefully received! Thanks

 

Three bedroom detached with 10 radiators and I have a 28 KW Valliant Combi boiler.

I asked for this. I also got the inbuilt timer/program unit.

 

You can run the hot tap at full flow on hot in the shower and it is too hot.

The boiler is only one wall away from the bathroom though.

 

Look here:- https://www.vaillant.co.uk/for-installers/products/ecotec-pro-24-28-and-30kw-3776.html

 

Thanks AG Falco

 

Baxi - accept no substitutes. 

James Hargreaves have their own brand which are made by Ideal.

My cousin is a plumber and said don't buy a Vaillant - when they go wrong the parts are usually very expensive.

Vaillant Ecotec 831 Plus here and it seems fine - plenty of heat and reliable.  We did have a circuit board issue just after we moved in that was a known problem with them but a new board was fitted and it's been fine since (touch wood)

Any installer working in the trade will tell you what they like to sell based on the profit margin they can gain from selling that particular boiler. If you want a genuine opinion of what's a good make and model to have fitted, ask a service and repair guy what he fixes most of.

 

Vaillant are good, but expensive perhaps to repair.

 

Viessmann are good.

 

Worcester Bosch are fair.

Baxi are crap.

 

Ideal are really crap.

 

One thing to bear in mind (you don't state what your current boiler is and how it performs). If you currently have a 28Kw boiler and decide to upgrade to a 36Kw one then you could well find that the gas supply pipe to the boiler isn't adequate for the required flow rate of gas, so you'll either need a new supply pipe fitting or the boiler will only work to the amount of gas it can get through the pipe. Worth noting that fitting a boiler with an undersized gas pipe resulting in inadequate performance is not something allowed by the gas regulations. If you fit a 36Kw boiler then it should have the capability of providing 36Kw output. I've been to a good few "new installations" where the old boiler was simply replaced with a new larger output one, and no increase of hot water flow rate was available for just this reason.
 

On a slightly different tack, I'd recommend a standard boiler and an unvented hot water cylinder. You still get mains pressure hot water, but you don't get the intricacies and pitfalls of a combi boiler. However, unless you have enough space for a cylinder and related pipework etc. then this is probably a non starter.

51 minutes ago, Rustynuts said:

 

Vaillant are good, but expensive perhaps to repair.

 

Viessmann are good.

 

Worcester Bosch are fair.

Baxi are crap.

 

Ideal are really crap

 

We had an Ideal combi for 18 years , never serviced, never broke down until last year when the temperature regulator leaked

 

Got Ideal standard based on price and gas fitter recommendations. Standard as thinking of getting central heating.

All boilers are probable not too last like the old ones due to the unrepairable electronics.

Just like all modern cars, they'll be expensive to repair and buy a new would cheaper. Throw away mentality.

Edited 18 September, 20196 yr by Kenrw8

2 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

Baxi are crap.

 

Is this based on various bad experiences you've had whilst

using them? Just wondering, as I've spoken to some people (incl central heating installers) who swear by them and reckon they are a cut above many manufacturers today as they use brass internals as opposed to plastic and come with a 10 year warranty as standard.

 

I guess it's like anything though...personal experiences count for a lot. I'm still in the melting pot though...slowly going round in circles 😜

7 minutes ago, slicendice said:

 

Is this based on various bad experiences you've had whilst

using them? Just wondering, as I've spoken to some people (incl central heating installers) who swear by them and reckon they are a cut above many manufacturers today as they use brass internals as opposed to plastic and come with a 10 year warranty as standard.

 

I guess it's like anything though...personal experiences count for a lot. I'm still in the melting pot though...slowly going round in circles 😜

 

 

I'm a heating engineer...

I'm in a similar position to slicendice & have been looking at Ferroli Modena boilers.

 

I know Ferroli had a bad reputation from their previous range of boilers, but the Modena seems to get good reports.

 

Their combi has no plate heat exchanger or diverter valve, which are parts that always seem to give problems in other makes.

 

Only 4 moving parts in the boiler.

 

Would be interested to hear Rustynuts opinion on this make, if he has had any dealing with them.

Ferroli from years ago were terrible. The Modena apparently uses a twin heat exchanger principle which in theory should make it simpler, a system used in the early Glow Worm combi boilers.

However, less moving parts essentially means when something fails it's a big and expensive part rather than a small cheap part.

My own personal view of gas combis is buy cheap with long warranty, and throw them away when they start to cause problems out of warranty. There's little mileage in paying to repair an expensive boiler time and time again when a days labour will have a new one on the wall with another stretch of warranty.

2 hours ago, Rustynuts said:

 

 

I'm a heating engineer...

 

That puts you many leagues ahead of me re knowledge of anything remotely related to boilers 😁

 

Do they break down a lot? Part failures? Poor post-sales support?

 

42 minutes ago, slicendice said:

 

That puts you many leagues ahead of me re knowledge of anything remotely related to boilers 😁

 

Do they break down a lot? Part failures? Poor post-sales support?

 

All of that.

Quote from our heating service folks. Ariston are cheap to buy and install, but expensive on parts.

But our old Baxi worked for years. It's only failure was the very large ( required by regulation) hole n the wall for ventilation. Problem was that this wall faced the prevailing  wind, and in winter th room could fall to cold enough to burst a rad.

Edited 18 September, 20196 yr by VWD

I guess it's like cars really...some people love a particular brand because of good experiences with them, others hate the same brand because they had a bad experience.

 

Think I'll just toss a coin... 😋

Friend of mine repairs boilers. Says he has no idea what Vaillant are like because he’s never been called out to one. Which says it all! Says Worcester Bosch aren’t that good, and difficult to repair.

 

Boiler reliability is in Which? magazine this month. At the top are Worcester, Vaillant and Viessmann. At the bottom are Hearline, Ferroli and Biasi. Potterton, Ideal and Baxi do reasonably well.

 

Personally I’ll be going for a Vaillant.

On 20/09/2019 at 08:37, slicendice said:

I guess it's like cars really...some people love a particular brand because of good experiences with them, others hate the same brand because they had a bad experience.

 

Think I'll just toss a coin... 😋

 

I agree, I've got an Ideal boiler which I would never have picked but it got installed just before we moved in, and I would probably buy another, it performs well, parts are cheap and just about everything inside is dead easy to change. I reckon I could keep it going for a long time.

I've had a Worcester Bosch replaced with another one. The previous was 22 yrs old and starting to show it's age, it needed stripping down to get to the heat exchanger which was found to need replacing. Far too costly in labour and parts so a Green Star 28 was fitted, a more or less straight swap over all but for a condense pipe adding as required nowadays. Can't fault it in 3 years, we have 6 yr warranty in it. The fitter has properties himself all with the same boilers, wouldn't fit anything else as he doesn't want any hassles with breakdowns etc. My son had one fitted last year replacing an 8 year old Baxi, basically it was giving him grief, he'd already paid out for a control unit, that went again and other problems too with a valve. We've got 7 rads fitted in a 3 bed semi, more than does the job perfectly heating/hot water output great, my son has the same set up.

Here's the summary from the current Which report on boilers:

 

I've always had WB. Last time I had a boiler replaced we went with that because the installer could offer a 7yr warranty.

I only really expected a combi to last about 10yr so having it warrantied for 7 of those seems like a good idea.

We have had 2 Ideal boilers - in 2 different houses - based on the recommendation of the plumber we used - who is also a personal friend of ours

 

We've not had any issues with either of them across the 9-10 years total other than occasional drops of pilot light (easily restarted) and the mobile thermostat/timer being too far away from the unit or weak battery to kick off the heating at the right time.

 

On 25/09/2019 at 13:14, Wet Kipper said:

We've not had any issues with either of them across the 9-10 years total other than occasional drops of pilot light (easily restarted) and the mobile thermostat/timer being too far away from the unit or weak battery to kick off the heating at the right time.

 

 

Pilot light? Is this an Ideal boiler from the 1960's?

We do a lot of boiler replacements at work and the findings seem to agree with the general notes above.

Most of the boilers are pretty solid but we are currently doing Vaillant on hundreds of properties with very few call outs from them

 

One to run away from is Ideal - we were doing them for a number of years and there were a HUGE amount of failures within the first year (all covered under warranty however). They have effectively been struck of our list of approved products.

 

If you are getting a boiler stipulate a minimum of 7 year manufacturers warranty - some will even go as far as 10. Bearing in mind the expected life span of a boiler is between 10-15 years you can therefore get about two thirds of that period covered by the manufacturer. I suspect conditions will apply such as yearly service/ maintenance checks however.