Confusion over servicing requirements

[BucksLad]

Hi all, first post so be gentle...

 

Earlier this year I bought a 68 plate Octavia estate and it is now coming up to its first 'birthday'. According to the service indicator, it is due an Inspection Service in 11300 miles/341 days and an Oil Service in 10100 miles/341 days. I'm assuming this means the car was originally set up for the Variable (condition-based) Service scheme. As I've recently retired, my mileage has dropped significantly and I feel I should probably switch over to Fixed Interval servicing. As the car hasn't been serviced yet I am planning to get it done at 12 months, when the total mileage will be around 9,500. My confusion relates to whether I should go for the Skoda 2 Service Plan (£342) and save myself a few quid over the cost of having an Interim Service at 12 months (£179) and a Major Service at 24 months (£289) - the saving would in fact be £126. However, the Skoda 2 Service Plan only includes an oil & filter change at 10000 miles/12 months and an oil & filter change plus inspection service at 20000 miles/24 months, which they say is in line with the Skoda recommended service schedule. This seems to be at odds with the Fixed interval service scheme where an Interim Service is done @ 12 months and a Major Service at 24 months.

Can anyone help explain which is correct?

[Alex-W]

I really don't understand this servicing schedule setup the Skoda's have.  It seems to be discussed all the time and causes confusion all over.

 

What is the motivation to get it put on fixed intervals?

People seem to suggest it's the one to have if you do low miles, but that makes no sense to me.

The variable schedule obviously monitors driving and suggests a service time, however limits at 2 years/20k.  

This sounds perfect for yourself if you're doing 9500 a year.

 

However if somebody only does 5k a year people seem to suggest fixed intervals, which would mean servicing every 5k rather than every 20k on variable which is one extreme to the other.  Whereas if you just leave it on variable it'll still call for it every  2 years so it'll be done every 10k which seems far more reasonable.  If it's ok to do 20k/2years I see no logic why every 10k/2years isn't actually better.

 

Seems to me the old method of X miles or Y months, whichever is first, is much clearer, simpler and logical.

 

The fact that they separate inspection and oil changes is also silly.  Who goes and pays a garage to service a car and not actually do anything?  'yeah mate, can I book my car in for a service?   Oh, no, don't change the oil or any filters, just have a look around and charge me a couple of hundred quid...  Cheers'.   Said nobody.  Ever.

 

 

In summary, I'd just leave it on variable.

If you want more regular oil changes, either change it yourself at the mid point for a fraction of the cost of even pay an independent garage.  No point paying a stealer more than you need to!

I'm sure others will disagree with my logic mind.

Edited 17 October, 2019 by Alex-W

[SurreyJohn]

You are correct all leave the factory on variable, but if you then read the book it says variable is for high mileage drivers only. Variable not suitable for town driving, lots of short journeys, towing, hilly areas 

 

The service plans are a bit patchy, an inspection can be a bit pointless in sense that a lot of it can easily be done at home, (and anyone who drove a car in 1970s would have thought normal to check).  

 

Oil is a lifeblood and there will never be a problem of changing it early.  The obvious disadvantage is extra cost.  On the other hand (and there is quite a debate about this) is that sometime after about 50000 miles or 5 years there could be premature wear or expensive replacements of parts, so what you have saved, comes and bites you few years later as breakdowns and expensive repairs.

 

If you are newly retired, doing lots of short journeys, intend to keep the car for years, then switch to annual fixed services.

 

As for service plans, personally I don’t like them, they are based on certain mileages each year, so don’t fit comfortably with other combinations (and some don’t seem to cover paintwork check for warranty, or servicing of DSG or Haldex, or even some parts needed).  Much better to book an individual service saying something like has done 7000 miles since last year.  The good Dealers will then service it appropriately (and often costs 15-20% less than Skoda published price)

 

One final piece of advice, it is good idea to swap the tyres front-back to even the wear around 14-15k miles (put it on calendar, car won’t remind you).  Any tyre dealer can do this.

 

[Alex-W]

32 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

 Variable not suitable for town driving, lots of short journeys, towing, hilly areas 

 

 

 

This makes no sense to me though.  It's variable, by definition.

It's supposed to monitor the type of driving and alter the service interval accordingly.

Otherwise surely it would just be called 'motorway driving servicing'.

 

It also makes no sense really.  I mean, I do 5k a year and that's largely my 9 mile each way commute.

So, by that logic, I should get it serviced yearly and every 5k.

 

However, if I were to do those miles and also do another 15k a year on some additional motorway journeys I could get it serviced 4 times less as regularly, in terms of miles, yet it will have seen far far more wear.

The time is irrelevant really, it's not like oil self combusts after a year, it's miles and heat cycles that'll kill it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I usually change oil in my cars every 5k (albeit older cars with lower spec oil I imagine) and completely agree with frequent oil changes.  But, servicing implies changing many other items that 

32 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

 Variable not suitable for town driving, lots of short journeys, towing, hilly areas 

 

 

 

This makes no sense to me though.  It's variable, by definition.

It's supposed to monitor the type of driving and alter the service interval accordingly.

Otherwise surely it would just be called 'motorway driving servicing'.

 

It also makes no sense really.  I mean, I do 5k a year and that's largely my 9 mile each way commute.

So, by that logic, I should get it serviced yearly and every 5k.

 

However, if I were to do those miles and also do another 15k a year on some additional motorway journeys I could get it serviced 4 times less as regularly, in terms of miles, yet it will have seen far far more wear.

The time is irrelevant really, it's not like oil self combusts after a year, it's miles and heat cycles that'll kill it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I usually change oil in my cars every 5k (albeit older cars with lower spec oil I imagine) and completely agree with frequent oil changes.  But, servicing implies changing many other items that 

[Alex-W]

Apologies for the repeated text, posting from my phone and dodgy WiFi is to blame.

[wyx087]

I believe for variable service, you need to do inspection at year 1 but a major service every 2nd year (if variable doesn't warn you to do it sooner). In another words, every proper service (if we ignore inspection for now) is a major service. 

 

So the 2 yr service plan is actually a con IMO. It doesn't include the correct service requirement of the car. 

[BucksLad]

4 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I believe for variable service, you need to do inspection at year 1 but a major service every 2nd year (if variable doesn't warn you to do it sooner). In another words, every proper service (if we ignore inspection for now) is a major service. 

 

So the 2 yr service plan is actually a con IMO. It doesn't include the correct service requirement of the car. 

 

Thanks all for the replies and comments - much appreciated.

 

I thought alternating Major/Inspection was for both Fixed Interval & Condition-based (Variable) servicing, although I'm not 100% certain on this.

Regarding your Service Plan comment: the Skoda GB web site does state that the 2 year Service Plan meets the manufacturer service requirements.

For cars up to 1 year old, the service plan is a basic oil change at 10,000 miles/1 year and an oil change at 20,000 miles/2 years. So it appears to be similar to a Variable service at 20,000 miles/2 years with an additional oil change at 1 year. If the car is older than one year, the 2 year Service Plan is basically 2 standard services: one Inspection and one Major. So I assume that they work on the basis that nothing much is going to need attention/maintenance in the first couple of years.

[langers2k]

VW suggest the following:

 

Quote

You can choose from two types of service regimes, depending on your driving methods.

 

Fixed Service (Time and Distance)
We recommend this service if you are likely to drive less than 10,0001 miles in a year, and if you tend to drive in the following way:

- Mainly city centre driving, short journeys with frequent cold starts

- High engine loading activities, e.g. frequent hill climbs, driving with your vehicle fully loaded and towing

- Uneconomical driving using high rpms with heavy acceleration and heavy braking.

 

Flexible Service Regime (LongLife Service)
We recommend this service if you are likely to drive more than 25 miles a day, and if you tend to drive in the following way:

- Regular long distance driving

- Driving at a constant speed with minimum vehicle and engine loading, and minimal towing

- Economical driving

 

 

If an engine is only used for a couple of miles, it's not going to get to full working temperature meaning contaminants such as water, diesel and petrol could build up in the oil causing it to change lubrication properties. City driving also tends to create more particulates due to the stop/start nature which can also get into the oil, even more so if the engine isn't up to temperature as the tolerances change. All of this can cause more wear on the engine and therefore a shorter life.

 

Fixed servicing was standard until 'longlife' oil was introduced. To be honest, I believe variable servicing was mostly to keep fleets and similar happy as it'll reduce their costs and makes little difference to reliability in the first few years...

 

Obviously the choice between regimes is completely a personal choice but for most low mileage, inner city drivers that frequently aren't getting their engine to temperature, I'd suggest a yearly oil change is better for engine longevity.  It's not that important if you intend to keep the car for 3-4 years and trade it in...

 

[SurreyJohn]

The terminology of inspection and service is part of the problem, most people would understand it more  if it was described as alternating between light service and full service

 

It is also completely pointless to show 2 different services with same date and few hundred miles apart, as just going to get bigger one done, so would be better if it showed one unless there is a significant difference.   

 

To be honest, if you open the bonnet, and check the oil on dipstick, just by looking at it, will give you a much better idea than looking at a computerised guess

 

Skoda are only interested in making sure the car minimises warranty claims and survives the statutory 6 years responsibility.  They have a vested interest in car then deteriorating so it needs replacing and they can sell you another

[octavia5]

Totally agree with @langers2k - would also suggest that you check the oil temp regularly (not the water temp on the dash) - use the scroll controls on the steering wheel to select oil temp - to see if you get up to at least 90c on your journey and maintain it for 10 or more minutes.  If your oil does not get up to temperature then it will deteriorate more quickly and an annual oil change becomes a no brainer.

[Kenai]

31 minutes ago, octavia5 said:

Totally agree with @langers2k - would also suggest that you check the oil temp regularly (not the water temp on the dash) - use the scroll controls on the steering wheel to select oil temp - to see if you get up to at least 90c on your journey and maintain it for 10 or more minutes.  If your oil does not get up to temperature then it will deteriorate more quickly and an annual oil change becomes a no brainer.

This is what I think many people don't realise - oil can take much longer to warm up than than coolant. It's normally about 5 miles or so before I'm up over 85.

 

In the example above of a 9 mile each way commute, a good 50% of the running time could well be under temp. 

 

At an old job I was only a few miles away from the office, so the Golf I was driving at the time probably only reached proper oil temperature once or twice a month when I did a trip to a meeting somewhere. That was getting yearly changes. 

[just music]

As a personal lease car driver on a 3 year contract, I'm quite happy that the car is on variable servicing as it means only paying for one service rather than two. Our driving pattern would ideally put us in the fixed method, but as someone said earlier, shouldn't the servicing calculator take account of that?

[Alex-W]

1 hour ago, Kenai said:

This is what I think many people don't realise - oil can take much longer to warm up than than coolant. It's normally about 5 miles or so before I'm up over 85.

 

In the example above of a 9 mile each way commute, a good 50% of the running time could well be under temp. 

 

 

Yep, I'd say it probably gets to 85° after maybe 4 miles of my journey, however I accept that it's running under that for 45% of the journey.

 

I also accept that if somebody is doing 20k in 2 years then they'll spend a lower percentage of that time at that temp.  But they've more than likely commuted twice a day, so they'll also more than likely have spent the same period of time running the car at the same temperatures.   Doing the extra miles when warm doesn't undo any wear that's done at the low temperatures, it adds wear.  Ok, not as much if the oil is warm, but it's still running time.

 

So, the idea that if you do 20k in 2 years you only need one service per 20k, but if you do 10k in 2 years you need it twice is absurd in my opinion.

 

 

[langers2k]

23 minutes ago, Alex-W said:

I also accept that if somebody is doing 20k in 2 years then they'll spend a lower percentage of that time at that temp.  But they've more than likely commuted twice a day, so they'll also more than likely have spent the same period of time running the car at the same temperatures.   Doing the extra miles when warm doesn't undo any wear that's done at the low temperatures, it adds wear.  Ok, not as much if the oil is warm, but it's still running time.

 

So, the idea that if you do 20k in 2 years you only need one service per 20k, but if you do 10k in 2 years you need it twice is absurd in my opinion.

 

Longer journeys can keep the oil in better condition by evaporating any water/fuel/etc that's accumulated in it. This will result in less wear, even during the initial warm up as the oil can actually do it's job...

[wyx087]

36 minutes ago, Alex-W said:

So, the idea that if you do 20k in 2 years you only need one service per 20k, but if you do 10k in 2 years you need it twice is absurd in my opinion.

Agree. 

 

For example, my Octy only does 8k a year, sounds low, sounds like should be on fixed according to guidelines. But it NEVER gets driven for less than 28 miles, 40min each time. My commute is 28 miles, but I don't drive the Octy to work every day. It never gets used for short journey as we have an EV for that. So I don't see any point having the "longlife" oil changed every year on the fixed schedule. 

 

"it protects the engine innit". No, it only more waste than necessary. It only makes one's wallet lighter. 

 

It all depends on your circumstance. But If you only drive 10 miles a day, I'd question why are you not driving an EV or hybrid, where the whole drivetrain are better designed for short journeys.   

[Alex-W]

2 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

But If you only drive 10 miles a day, I'd question why are you not driving an EV or hybrid, where the whole drivetrain are better designed for short journeys.   

 

Because all the nice ones are silly expensive...

[nicknorman]

I would have it on fixed oil change intervals. One oil change a year isn’t going to break the bank. As has been suggested, the long life variable servicing is more about satisfying the short term needs of lease and fleet cars, rather than what is best for the car. Synthetic oils are quite hygroscopic (attract and absorb moisture) and an annual change is considered good practice if the car is little used and/or mostly short journeys.

 

Once out of warranty, it is pretty cheap and easy to change the oil yourself. I’d recommend Quantum Platinum from TPS which is sold by VW, to their spec, but very cheap.

 

Inspection services are just that - they inspect stuff. They don’t actually do anything unless something, eg brakes, need attention.

 

But, depending on the model, you may require a Haldex oil change, DSG oil change, new spark plugs, new air filter, new diesel fuel filter, brake fluid change etc. These are (mostly) not covered by an “inspection” service.

[Alex-W]

So is the consensus that the car doesn't actually vary the intervals on variable then?  

[SurreyJohn]

The big problem for cars that do very short journeys is the engine and oil never really get hot.  If you just drive a mile or two in winter, a fair proportion of the oil is sitting cold and thick in the sump.  

 

The effect is that only some of the oil is properly circulating, so the oil becomes uneven.  Then when you do a long journey and the oil warms through, get some of this thicker oil mixing.    But even worse, any condensation which was sitting under the oil (oil floats on water) is now released and may form steam so now lubricating the engine with oil and water vapour, at least until any steam evaporates (but as there is no where for it to go except trying to vent through oil filler, which is usually closed tight) end up with moisture effectively dissolved in the oil.   Some will separate back out if car sits long enough.

 

so even if you want to do a service every two years, change the oil annually (unless it is leased and any problems will be for next owner), so may as well save the cost of regular change.

[silver1011]

3 hours ago, Alex-W said:

So is the consensus that the car doesn't actually vary the intervals on variable then?  

 

It does vary, but barely.

 

Even in the most brutal conditions you're likely to get 14,000 - 15,000 miles out of a variable service. Best case is 18,600 miles (30,000km).

 

The bottom line here is that variable servicing is designed to appeal to fleet managers, running several company cars, and looking to minimise running costs. This is what gets Skoda bulk fleet orders. Long term engine reliability is not on the cards.

 

No one with an ounce of mechanical sympathy would leave the same engine oil in for two years, regardless of mileage.

 

If you're doing higher mileage, even on variable you're going to change the oil roughly once a year.

 

If you're doing low annual mileage on variable there is a chance the same oil will need to lubricate your engine and turbo through two winters.

 

No thanks, not for me. Skoda charge £119 for an oil and oil filter, hardly expensive. Change to fixed and change the oil each year.

 

Edited 17 October, 2019 by silver1011

[nicknorman]

3 hours ago, Alex-W said:

So is the consensus that the car doesn't actually vary the intervals on variable then?  

It does, but not by a huge amount. You also have to bear in mind the types of driving recommended for the two different types of servicing.

[Alex-W]

Seems very naughty that the variable plan even exists If that's the case.

The cost of servicing is less significant to companies then to individuals.  

 

As I said, I'm in full support of regular oil changes and usually do every year/5k miles, max about 8k.

 

Is there a list of recommended oils on here?

 

I know they just need to conform to vw 507 but are there any preferences?

 

Looking on Opie oils, Miller's nanodrive or shell helix hx8 seem the obvious ones?  

[Guest]

On 17/10/2019 at 07:56, Alex-W said:

 

This makes no sense to me though.  It's variable, by definition.

It's supposed to monitor the type of driving and alter the service interval accordingly.

Otherwise surely it would just be called 'motorway driving servicing'.

 

It also makes no sense really.  I mean, I do 5k a year and that's largely my 9 mile each way commute.

So, by that logic, I should get it serviced yearly and every 5k.

 

However, if I were to do those miles and also do another 15k a year on some additional motorway journeys I could get it serviced 4 times less as regularly, in terms of miles, yet it will have seen far far more wear.

The time is irrelevant really, it's not like oil self combusts after a year, it's miles and heat cycles that'll kill it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I usually change oil in my cars every 5k (albeit older cars with lower spec oil I imagine) and completely agree with frequent oil changes.  But, servicing implies changing many other items that

 

Sounds like you're confused. What SurreyJohn said ( Variable not suitable for town driving, lots of short journeys, towing, hilly areas ) is spot on.

 

1: Absolutely not. Variable does not monitor the type of driving. What happens is a degregation sensor monitors the quality of oil and requests a service when the oil falls below a set parameter. Servicing is also more than an oil change.

 

2: Your logic is wrong. It's not that you travel 5k a year which consists of a 9 mile commute, it's how you drive the car and the conditions it's driven under that's the determining factor for servicing.

A 9 mile at a steady 60mph from near one motorway junction to the next is much different than a 9 mile commute thru town in rush hour traffic. A 9 mile commute in rural Linconshire is much different to a 9 mile commute thru hilly Sheffield. A 9 mile commute by Ms Daisy is much different to a 9 mile commute by a boy racer. It's the environment the car is subjected to that counts.

 

Driven sensibly,  15k a year on a motorway will cause less engine wear than 5k thru stop/start traffic.

 

Appologies, I don't know what you mean by 'heat cycles' kill it.  What's heat cycles?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 October, 2019 by Guest

[silver1011]

12 hours ago, Alex-W said:

Seems very naughty that the variable plan even exists If that's the case.

The cost of servicing is less significant to companies then to individuals.   

 

On the contrary. Companies will be more driven to lower servicing costs than private individuals.

 

The company's fleet manager's job is to look at the total cost of ownership when deciding which manufacturer to buy from. If a Skoda needs servicing half as often as say a Ford, then the total cost over three years / 200,000 miles will be significantly less. They buy tens of cars over the same period compared to your single purchase.

 

This is why variable servicing was introduced.

[silver1011]

12 hours ago, Alex-W said:

Is there a list of recommended oils on here?

 

I know they just need to conform to vw 507 but are there any preferences?

 

Looking on Opie oils, Miller's nanodrive or shell helix hx8 seem the obvious ones?  

 

Pay top dollar for the branded oils if you prefer, or use VAG's own branded oil used by numerous franchised Skoda dealers.

 

This Skoda dealer in Scotland even sells it online, 5 litres for less than £24 delivered to your door...

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quantum-Longlife-5W-30-Fully-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-5-Litres/223613948218?hash=item34106e113a:g:ubgAAOSwk75dSZyD