1.2 Greenline - is it meant to be so insanely underpowered?

[Ravenskull]

Having read the reviews, before buying a 1.2 Greenline 2 weeks ago, I fully expected it to be a little underpowered - not unlike my old 899cc cinquecento, back in the 90's.

 

What i wasn't prepared for, is a car that is incapable of maintaining 60mph when you hit even the slightest uphill gradient on the motorway.

 

is this normal?

 

[Ravenskull]

oops, should have been in Fabia Mk II section.....

[Ootohere]

Those that know the cars will be along hopefully to give their experience.

 

They are not meant to be insanely underpowered, that would be just downright dangerous. 

If you cant drop a gear and boot it to maintain 60 mph something is wrong.  Unless the car is fully loaded weight wise.

 

?

So how old is your car and with how many miles covered and how recently serviced and what has been done?

?

Are you sure the wheels / tyres fitted are the standard size and someone has not put bigger than OEM on?

[john999boy]

8 hours ago, Ravenskull said:

oops, should have been in Fabia Mk II section.....

And now it is! 

[peter3197]

8 hours ago, Ravenskull said:

Having read the reviews, before buying a 1.2 Greenline 2 weeks ago, I fully expected it to be a little underpowered - not unlike my old 899cc cinquecento, back in the 90's.

 

What i wasn't prepared for, is a car that is incapable of maintaining 60mph when you hit even the slightest uphill gradient on the motorway.

 

is this normal?

 

Having had one of these for avery short period, the only way to maintain any reasonable forward motion is to rev the nuts off it. If you want to knock about town it's ok but as a real world vehicle I found it to be useless. Oh, and if you do use the revs freely, you will get nowhere near the mpg you thought.

[Ravenskull]

1 hour ago, Roottootemoot said:

Those that know the cars will be along hopefully to give their experience.

 

They are not meant to be insanely underpowered, that would be just downright dangerous. 

If you cant drop a gear and boot it to maintain 60 mph something is wrong.  Unless the car is fully loaded weight wise.

 

?

So how old is your car and with how many miles covered and how recently serviced and what has been done?

?

Are you sure the wheels / tyres fitted are the standard size and someone has not put bigger than OEM on?

 

In order,

2012, 54800 miles on the clock, according to service book the last service seems to have been a 4 year/60,000 mile service in March 2018. Tyres are standard size according to the handbook, and according to Skoda it hasn't been molested with the VW ea189 emissions "fix".

No warning lights on dash, but have just plugged in my el-cheapo ODB reader, and it does have a stored fault code for turbo underboost.

 

Dropping into 4th and flooring it allows me to maintain 50mph whilst going uphill.....unless you are going downhill, it's like the car looses the will to live the moment you go into 5th gear.   

 

 

1 hour ago, peter3197 said:

Having had one of these for avery short period, the only way to maintain any reasonable forward motion is to rev the nuts off it. If you want to knock about town it's ok but as a real world vehicle I found it to be useless. Oh, and if you do use the revs freely, you will get nowhere near the mpg you thought.

 

And there's the thing - revving the nuts off it works in 1st-4th, but in 5th? It looses the will to live.

 

Have noticed that it's great as a runabout, but anything involving motorway journeys (or hills) seems to be almost beyond it's abilities - which is frankly ridiculous.

To put this in perspective, my other car is a 2007 fiat doblo with the 1.3 multijet engine (actual displacement is 1248cc, compared to the fabia's 1199cc). Despite weighing in at more than a quarter tonne heavier than the fabia, it manages to zoom around/tow things just fine.  

Both engines are rated as having exactly the same power output - 75 PS (55 kW; 74 hp). Surely a mere 49cc's difference in cylinder bore volume shouldn't make this much of a dramatic difference?

 

Edited 8 December, 2019 by Ravenskull

[Ootohere]

'Turbo underboost', would seem to be the thing to have checked out then.

@Ravenskull

How many max Nm does the 2007 1.3 Multijet produce?

Fiat were are it in 2007 just as VW were with Implausible / Irregular test results on Emissions. 

 

PS

@Auric Goldfinger. LOL, 

i see you deleted the post,  like many, like me as well,  it is easy to miss that the 1.2 Greenline is a Diesel & not a MPI petrol.

Edited 8 December, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Auric Goldfinger]

1 hour ago, Roottootemoot said:

'Turbo underboost', would seem to be the thing to have checked out then.

 

PS

@Auric Goldfinger. LOL, 

i see you deleted the post,  like many, like me as well,  it is easy to miss that the 1.2 Greenline is a Diesel & not a MPI petrol.

 

I sometimes have to engage brain before fingers...............

[Ootohere]

Nooo i was thinking on coming to that Fish Supper meet.

[KeithCheetham]

Bluetooth OBD2 and Torque, or similar that allow real time data, on a phone will allow you to see boost pressure while driving. My 1.4 TDI Greenline tops out at about 17psi.

[Ravenskull]

6 hours ago, Roottootemoot said:

'Turbo underboost', would seem to be the thing to have checked out then.

@Ravenskull

How many max Nm does the 2007 1.3 Multijet produce?

Fiat were are it in 2007 just as VW were with Implausible / Irregular test results on Emissions. 

 

PS

@Auric Goldfinger. LOL, 

i see you deleted the post,  like many, like me as well,  it is easy to miss that the 1.2 Greenline is a Diesel & not a MPI petrol.

 

After clearing the code, and taking a run down the motorway to see if the situation was repeatable, i'm now getting a P0101 (Mass Airflow Sensor Fault) code........but no repeat of the underboost code. Looks like there's some form of issue with the air intake side of things. Had a look at the boost pipework as best i'm able, and can't see any obvious splits/loose hoses - so not sure if it's a physical issue (boost leak), electrical issue (sensor fault) or something entirely unrelated that's causing secondary symptoms. Suppose i'll have to hand it over to the greasemonkeys, once the doblo is back from having a service/mot.

 

1.3 Multijet is rated at 148 lb ft - this equates to 200.66 Nm.

1.2 TDI CR is rated at 180 Nm, so on this basis, the extra 49cc's would appear to give the Fiat engine an 20 Nm.....  

 

or put another way,

the Fiat unit generates 1 Nm per 6.22 CC of engine displacement, 

the VW unit generates 1 Nm per 6.66 CC of engine displacement

 

[delta925]

Don't presume P0101 means the sensor itself is faulty, although if it is that could explain the shortage of power, as there are other reasons for the ECU recording ' implausible reading '.

 

From my  experience with the 1.6CR the air filter could be the issue. I found the fitted filter had all VAG logos moulded in so as it should have been presumably genuine part from dealer or TPS and it didn't look dirty. However swapping it to a new Bosch part stopped P0101 errors and car ran much better.

 

Another member traced P0101 errors to an o-ring seal not properly fitted. Once replaced no more errors.

 

If fitted to the 1.2 like the 1.6 the combined pressure and temperature sensor can throw up P0101 errors too.

 

If you don't find anything get another MAF from a breakers to try. Most posts about cleaning find it is at best a temporary fix but in your case could help diagnosis.

[CS45]

I also own a 1.2TDI CR estate, and in my experience, mine is brilliant on the motorway. 

As long as I keep it in 4th until up to speed, it gets up to 70 just fine, and once at 70, it has plenty of power in 5th for overtaking. 70-75mph happens in about 2 seconds, and it never feels like it’s struggling to keep up. Hills are not an issue, I leave the cruise control on and it doesn’t slow down at all on hills, engine just becomes a bit louder. 

 

I am surprised by the number of owners saying that it seems slow, because I really don’t notice that. it pulls strongly provided that it is in the right gear. 

 

Having said that, the power and torque delivery is very strange in this engine, as until about 1600rpm, it has nothing, then all of a sudden it has loads, then it dies down again as the revs increase. Once over 3700rpm it really has nothing left to give. 

I recommend ignoring the gear shift indicators as they seem to be all wrong. 

For the record, I’m averaging 66mpg long term, best I’ve ever had is 87mpg after a long motorway run. 

 

I’m now getting suspicious that it’s been mapped...

Either way, turbo underboost sounds as though it would correlate to a lack of power.

[mrgf]

I have the older, 1.4 and would have thought the later tech of the 1.2 would still produce the same power, to a degree. (Mine is an 09 model so the end of the line of 1.4's). The Mass airflow sensor i.e. not overly expensive from carparts4less, with a discount code etc and is a fairly simple swap. I had one changed once whilst having work done which cost me more then buying it and fitting it but meant the work done could be done properly and I was back on the road in one go. I also had a small hole/split in the turbo pipe, again a fairly simple job. They ordered that and fitted it a few days later, when I had the few hours to spare again. Between them, those faults did make the car run poorly but when ok, the car pulls fairly well but drop too low, in any gear, on a steep uphill incline and you will struggle a little. This is down to driving style though and a responsive river should know when to change down a ratio and not wait too long, where they may then need to drop two gears! 5th gear, is best left to duel carriageways and motorways, where you are travelling at a good rate of knots, for a decent distance. I find I don't even need 4th for town/city roads as 3rd suffices,revs are that low!

[Ravenskull]

Quick update:

Swapped out the MAF, and am now getting no errors...

....but it's made no practical difference to it's lack of power.

 

While i'm off next week i'm going to see if replacing the air filter makes a difference, (although the existing one appears to be clean) and dig out my OBD key from wherever it is in the garage.

If still no joy, its off to the local VAG specialist to let them have a play. 

[Simoneale1973]

On 10/12/2019 at 17:16, CS45 said:

I also own a 1.2TDI CR estate, and in my experience, mine is brilliant on the motorway. 

As long as I keep it in 4th until up to speed, it gets up to 70 just fine, and once at 70, it has plenty of power in 5th for overtaking. 70-75mph happens in about 2 seconds, and it never feels like it’s struggling to keep up. Hills are not an issue, I leave the cruise control on and it doesn’t slow down at all on hills, engine just becomes a bit louder. 

 

I am surprised by the number of owners saying that it seems slow, because I really don’t notice that. it pulls strongly provided that it is in the right gear. 

 

Having said that, the power and torque delivery is very strange in this engine, as until about 1600rpm, it has nothing, then all of a sudden it has loads, then it dies down again as the revs increase. Once over 3700rpm it really has nothing left to give. 

I recommend ignoring the gear shift indicators as they seem to be all wrong. 

For the record, I’m averaging 66mpg long term, best I’ve ever had is 87mpg after a long motorway run. 

 

I’m now getting suspicious that it’s been mapped...

Either way, turbo underboost sounds as though it would correlate to a lack of power.

 

Similar to me! Though mine is a 2013 Greenie II (2.5) Had the 'Fix' and not experienced any power problems, 70(ish) cruising is easy, no slow downs on hills, Overtakes well (sometimes have to drop a cog) I find the shift indicator is a little over-zealous (it's tuned to get economy not speed/power) - Average 65mpg, Best 84mpg (M4 Swindon to London blast at 72mph)

[Ravenskull]

Noticed that I never posted an update...

 

So, the car went for a service, which seemed to fix the problem......for about 6 weeks.

However, nothing got done to rectify this immediately as we then went into lockdown - so the car sat on the drive for most of last year since I was now working from home.

 

Anyway, as my other vehicle needed to go in for MOT and major works just before christmas, the greenline went to the garage to get looked at - so i would (hopefully) still have one working vehicle.

 

The problem turned out to be an intermittently faulty turbo actuator; because it doesn't fail immediately the throttle is opened, it isn't obvious when doing a static test.

 

Edited 31 March, 2021 by Ravenskull