I do like the free Tesco charging. Pretty simple to use and convenient. I like to claim the charge as the PodPoint app shows electricity you've had if you do. My first experience with them was a rapid charger (paid for) which failed to connect but I was pretty sure the user before me buggered the charger as he seemed to have no clue what he was doing. This was my first time public charging, so pretty clueless myself. After that it has been smooth sailing and I use PodPoint at least once a week.

Zoe can charge quickly on AC. If rapid charger can provide simultaneous DC/AC charging, it wouldn't be a supply problem. So it would be easy (and IMO make a lot more sense) to put in a 3-phase 22kW AC post next to the rapid for Zoe and those drivers who don't want to move their car when finished charging. 

10 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

<snip> and those drivers who don't want to move their car when finished charging. 

Those drivers should show some consideration and plug in to a 7kW charger if leaving it for hours. Many charging companies are introducing idle fees now, so you get charged a penalty for being plugged in and not charging. In Europe many rapids stop charging at 80% SoC, to prevent blocking by cars which are charging slowly over that last 20% (they should move to an AC post when charge rate drops anyway) and idle fees can kick in. The days of using EV spots as free parking are over due to the chargers being much more in demand.

29 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Those drivers should show some consideration and plug in to a 7kW charger if leaving it for hours. Many charging companies are introducing idle fees now, so you get charged a penalty for being plugged in and not charging. In Europe many rapids stop charging at 80% SoC, to prevent blocking by cars which are charging slowly over that last 20% (they should move to an AC post when charge rate drops anyway) and idle fees can kick in. The days of using EV spots as free parking are over due to the chargers being much more in demand.

Absolutely agree. I love idea of idle fees for rapids, and I think they should kick in sooner, like from 80% and charging rate slows below 10kW. 

 

But in the above case, was there AC chargers nearby? They need to be built alongside rapid chargers. 

 

I also think rapid chargers' interface are not doing enough to educate people. We are past the early adopter phase, many new EV drivers won't bother learning about difference between rapid and destination. More importantly need to educate people about the rapid charging speed tapering characteristics. 

Agree we are beyond early adoption phase now, it has gone mainstream. You only have to look on the Enyaq / ID.4 Facebook groups I belong to and see the level of questions asked (repeatedly) about these cars to realise someone told the muppets masses they can save some tax having an EV. They just want to drive it with no thought or effort.

So Tesla starting to open up its charging network to non Teslas.

 

Game change and will make Tesla billions.

@lol-lolI read that about some Superchargers in the Netherlands, so has it started in the UK?

 

EDIT, a pilot scheme!   Hopefully come time it will happen in the UK & possibly at affordable charging costs.

The thing is that many TESLA Drivers do not use the TESLA Superchargers due to the cost to use.

As TESLA become more popular in the UK the Superchargers might be more in demand by TESLA owners and less will be sitting unused much of the time.

https://www.caranddriver.com/a38135245/tesla-superchargers-to-other-brands-pilot

 

What a pity that Charge Place Scotland & TESLA have not allowed TESLA SUPERCHARGERS to be on the CPS System allowing TESLA Drivers to charge on them 

so not needing to be on the near CPS Chargers that other cars require to use as that is all they have available and there might just be a handful or less and maybe not all working.

 

Edited 3 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

Pricing in the Netherlands is pretty steep for non-subscription customers. Take out a subscription and as long as you charge more than 40kWh a month at superchargers you will benefit. Bjorn Nyland did some maths on that (see below) I think they are taking the same view as Ionity, you can use our chargers but preference is given to our customers.

 

Personally, it won't make much difference to me, except perhaps going to Scotland and stopping at Tebay services. Two Gridserve Electric Highway chargers suddenly becomes a hub with the addition of the 8 Superchargers there.

 

 

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

going to Scotland and stopping at Tebay services

You don't need a Scalextric car, or even need fuel, to plan trips (back) to Scotland around a stop at Tebay North.

Just now, KenONeill said:

You don't need a Scalextric car, or even need fuel, to plan trips (back) to Scotland around a stop at Tebay North.

Indeed Ken, the reason this is a win is we stop at Tebay on almost every trip. The fact that there are potentially loads of chargers is moot, we'd stop anyway. But, always be charging as they say so if we do stop then charge up while we have coffee /cake / pie and other nice things. 

Now that I have only used my EV for 6 miles each of the last 2 days I can see how much the electric can cost if you have to pay the commercial rate per kWh.   Yesterday it took just 15 mins to top back up after a not too cold night.  This morning it was 45 minutes on a Tesco 7kW charger to be back to 98% battery.    I will see by Saturday when I need to go a way just what it would have cost if I was paying 23 pence a kWh on a public charger or 18 pence at home just to do 30 miles and pay for energy loss while parked.      It will be much more than the £7 or so that I would of spent if I used my dirty diesel to do 6 miles a day for 5 days. 

 

EDIT.

Actually 30 kW x 23 pence a kWh is £6.90

30 kW x 18 pence a  kWh is £5.40       If i use 30 kWh. 

  Usually that would take me 90 miles or more driving,  but as i see maybe just 30 miles local and sitting unused 23 hours a day for 4 or 5 days.

 

 

 

Edited 3 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

Did anyone see the sky news reporter on his drive from London to Glasgow?he drove a Lia car and he said the car was great.then he said recharging was a nightmare,machines that did not work,then he could not understand the instructions to recharge.then when he was in the dark he could not even see what he had to do.it went on to say we need 450000 more charges in the uk to meet demand in the coming years.just wonder when we all go electric what the companies that own these charging station are going to charge us or should I say how much they are going to rip us all off.when they say greener is better,where does electricity com even from gas a dirty fuel it was a green fuel only a few years back.bio mass is even dirtier then all the other fuels.then poor coal who gets the blame for everything.there has been technology around now to make burning coal. A lot chcleaner than other fuels in use today.

@Joss1733

Have you not followed EV threads much concerning charging in Scotland, England / Wales or Northern Ireland?

 

We know now what charging can cost, free to 69 pence a kWh. 

 As to the future then nothing looks like changing very soon, it is all over the place and a free for all as far as EV Charging costs and profits or providing a service and getting public money to do so. 

 

Prices like £3.80 and as much as you want, £1,60 just to plug in and then 16, 21,23,27,28, 30, 40, 42 and up pence a kWh. 

Chargers with 3 pins / 3.5 kW, 7, 22 / 25, 43/50, 100 / 125, 150, 350 kW. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

36 minutes ago, Joss1733 said:

there has been technology around now to make burning coal. A lot chcleaner than other fuels in use today.

Wut?

 

Carbon capture?

 

 

@roottoot

 

This UK guy in the know seems to be sure the UK will be opened up as it is Elon Musk wish to do so and will also make him billions.....

I might get a Tesla Subscription as it looks worth it.  Or try and get work to pay for it.    

 

 

He is quite a Tesla fan ole Richard. He like Audis too mind. I think Tesla will make money from the Supercharger network and good luck to them. It did make me smile how Richard says how he welcomes non-Teslas being able to use the SC network, as long as:-

 

1. They pay more than him (Tesla owner)
2. The number of stalls they can use is strictly limited
3. they don't cause queues
4. Tesla change all the charging cables so everyone uses the right parking bay for the charger. (park properly plebs)
5. No PHEV at all. (kind of agree with this)

ID Furkan has video'd the process of charging a non-Tesla at a Tesla Supercharger. Looks very straightforward. The subscription pricing model will be useful for anyone doing a lot of miles.

 

 

The best part is the subscription in Netherlands is currently a rolling subscription, no locked in contract.

 

So it is possible to sign up the day before a road trip, enjoy the network and then cancel after a month.

40 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

So it is possible to sign up the day before a road trip, enjoy the network and then cancel after a month.

Definitely looks that way. Ideal for a one off road trip or holiday. Better than Ionity in that regard, where its a 12 month contract. 

Looking forward to popping in to the Braintree Grid-serve EV charging facility before Xmas on the family visit run........

 

Also looking forward to using the Rugby one which is not as cosy but looks well served by charge points and will glad to see Stevenage on the A1M and others , especially Plymouth my home town, joining the Gird Serve network and 30p per kWh sounds quite reasonable and just to get a £5 fill of  75 miles or a tenner getting me 150 miles. 

 

 

 

Edited 7 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol

 

 

 

A quite honest video from Mercedes which strongly suggest using lower current wall-box charging at home rather than fast public chargers and even setting maximum charging current to 80% rather than 100% and only reset to 100% if needed on that occasional long journey.  

 

It repeats itself in the second half to reinforce the messages, they really do want to push the better policy of slower wall-box charging rather than using rapids. 

 

 

 

Edited 24 November, 20214 yr by lol-lol

So legacy car manufacturers finally starting to understand EV batteries. 

 

From 2011/2012 Nissan Leaf have 80% charge limit setting. Tesla always have variable charge limit setting in all their cars. 

~2015 Leaf removed charge limit setting, no newer Leaf have this setting anymore 

 

I think Kona have variable charge limit setting, that was ~2019. I don't believe any other earlier EV's (Zoe, B-class EV, Smarts EV, i3, etc) have this capability. 

The issue is with a small battery like i have.

Going to be cold tonight, colder through Thursday and cold, windy and maybe snowy on Friday. 

 

So off to charge to 95% and later tonight i will top up again to 95% on the slow charger. 

It will not be plugged in at home tonight.

 

Early tomorrow i set off & have at least 280 miles to go. 

First chance of a reliable charger on my route without charging too soon is at 73 miles where if i get on the charger for 40 minutes, maybe i need to go to the next hub 10 miles on, or need to go 125 miles and get a 20 minute charge to see me to the first leg of the journey where i can charge for over an hour.

 

If i just take an ICE i am there in 2 3/4 hours instead of maybe 3 1/2.

 

Then later 120 miles to go so i want to get charged up which i will do at 100 mikes, so before i get to my hotel & i will be ready for setting off home Friday morning after being to the airport, which is 100 miles if there is no snow disruption. 

I need to know i have enough energy to take diversions, sit in traffic etc and get to a charger.

 

More thought needed than just filling with petrol / diesel and going and the bad weather possibility. 

 

I have done the same trip in my EV quite a few times in warm or hot weather but not the same one when it is cold.

 

I do like that i can do it for free just now rather than buying 8 gallons or more of fuel. 

 Buying the fuel does save the round about 3 hours that i will be sitting in the car while charging while travelling.

Edited 24 November, 20214 yr by roottoot

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

A quite honest video from Mercedes which strongly suggest using lower current wall-box charging at home rather than fast public chargers and even setting maximum charging current to 80% rather than 100% and only reset to 100% if needed on that occasional long journey.  

 

It repeats itself in the second half to reinforce the messages, they really do want to push the better policy of slower wall-box charging rather than using rapids. 

<snip video>

This is similar to the battery care section in the manual of my ID.4. VW go further by suggesting you keep the battery between 40% and 80% SoC in cold weather. (UK probably don't count as having cold weather). VW also make it clear that 80% is recommended for normal day to day driving, 100% only for long trips - Tesla also recommend this limit although Elon tweeted 90% is also fine. The information on battery care is easily found via Google too. The problem going forward is all the company car drivers jumping into EVs for tax reasons right now without really thinking about it, they just want to get in and go. As they don't own the car and get a new one every 2-4 years from the company, they don't care about the battery - that will be someone else's problem. So they charge to 100% all the time, rapid charge all the time, park up for days with low/high states of charge. Ex-lease EVs might be the ones to avoid in future.

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

So legacy car manufacturers finally starting to understand EV batteries. 

 

From 2011/2012 Nissan Leaf have 80% charge limit setting. Tesla always have variable charge limit setting in all their cars. 

~2015 Leaf removed charge limit setting, no newer Leaf have this setting anymore 

 

I think Kona have variable charge limit setting, that was ~2019. I don't believe any other earlier EV's (Zoe, B-class EV, Smarts EV, i3, etc) have this capability. 

 

I think the Zoe just sets quite a low Amperage ie 125 Amps, which means that either using AC or DC charging it is not going to quickly shorten the lifespan of the battery by not being over ambitious, or over promise rapid charging which may be quite impressive in the short term but owners may be less impressed if it is significantly decreases the life and on-going capacity ie like with Youtuber's ID3 losing nearly 10% of it capacity if the first year of ownership after he did lots of rapid charges.

 

Renault have quite a good replacement policy I reckon and it will be interesting to see what percentage of batteries get replaced. There are Zoes out there with over 300,000 km done and still having well over 90% of their capacity.  

 

So I have seen nothing in the software limiting charging current, only what Bjorn Nyland has shown either via the DC charging station and/or the OBDC software and over 40 kwh from a few percent until it gets well in to the 80%s is OK with me though that clearly take about an hour.  Will continue to use home and destination chargers in the 2, 3.6 and 7 kw range and be gentle with the charging and hope the car pays me back with continual good battery capacity.  More just charging to 88% or so I think and make some pres-condition for half and hour just before I am ready to journey will be my policy until I hear better advice.