Im no having my lunch break today im off to the garage to charge my van. Class can’t wait till thats part of my working day

Edited 22 January, 20206 yr by BigJase88

I had breakfast and just away to collect a new e208 demonstrator and see how many miles it does today on a 100% charge.  I will not plug it in at lunch time unless I really try out sport mode a bit too much. It can charge tonight for handing back tomorrow.   Working really is over rated.  Retired is so much more fun. 

1 hour ago, abaxas said:

Howcome, the EV nuts always think there is somewhere to charge or that the charger is local to the end of your journey.

I do a 220 mile journey every other week. 110 there, 110 back. The nearest charger is just over a mile away from my destination.

220 miles can be done with most newer EV these days if you drive carefully. Or drive like you stole it and have a very quick pit-stop on your way back. 

Remember, you don't need to charge back to full, you only need to recharge enough for you to get back to your destination charger. For example, your home. 

 

This brings us back to EV charging. Where the only problem for mass EV adoption is not enough destination chargers, and not enough rapid hubs on trunk roads. 

Oh, and also traditional car manufacturers, who build engines and only assemble rest of the car, are reluctant  to build cars without engines. 

5 hours ago, wyx087 said:

220 miles can be done with most newer EV these days if you drive carefully. Or drive like you stole it and have a very quick pit-stop on your way back. 

Remember, you don't need to charge back to full, you only need to recharge enough for you to get back to your destination charger. For example, your home. 

 

This brings us back to EV charging. Where the only problem for mass EV adoption is not enough destination chargers, and not enough rapid hubs on trunk roads. 

Oh, and also traditional car manufacturers, who build engines and only assemble rest of the car, are reluctant  to build cars without engines. 

So just to confirm. I might make the journey providing it isn't windy, raining heavily or cold and if I can't I've got to factor in another 10-20 minutes to stop to charge the car. But even if I don't need to charge I've got to drive like a granny and can't speed up or I'll have to phone the AA as there are no chargers in the last 20 miles of the journey.

That, put simply, is not a great way to sell a product.


 

Don't buy, lease or drive one if no use to you.

 

With sparkys they always seem to say they are waiting on the other trades and yet when the other trades have done the work it is the sparky that is too busy.

Maybe getting wired into the sparky mate.

12 minutes ago, abaxas said:

So just to confirm. I might make the journey providing it isn't windy, raining heavily or cold and if I can't I've got to factor in another 10-20 minutes to stop to charge the car. But even if I don't need to charge I've got to drive like a granny and can't speed up or I'll have to phone the AA as there are no chargers in the last 20 miles of the journey.

That, put simply, is not a great way to sell a product.

No. You drive how you like. But during some unfavourable days, you may need ~10 minutes of charging. That is only if you buy today's products with around 220 miles of range. 

 

No need to phone the AA, no need to worry whether there's a charger in the last 20 miles. No need to drive like a granny, just drive normally. 

 

The point of my post is, something you've picked up, you never need to wait the full quoted times at rapid chargers. You can do a very quick 10min pit-stop in your case. The key is enough destination charging to enable EV ownership for those without driveways. Rapid charging hubs are expensive infrastructure, they are only needed along trunk roads, where there is usually already high voltage pylons going overhead. 

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

you never need to wait the full quoted times at rapid chargers.

You can absolutely guarantee that there will always be a free  outlet when I arrive at one!?  

28 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Rapid charging hubs are expensive infrastructure, they are only needed along trunk roads, where there is usually already high voltage pylons going overhead. 

 

I admire your logic but do you know how ludicrously expensive it would be to tap into high voltage pylons and for the equipment to get down from 400KV.

 

Its not Pylons you want its probably 11/22/33KV services which you will only get near civilisation 

 

 

7 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

I admire your logic but do you know how ludicrously expensive it would be to tap into high voltage pylons and for the equipment to get down from 400KV.

 

Its not Pylons you want its probably 11/22/33KV services which you will only get near civilisation 

 

 

Agreed, the distribution of high power levels is expensive but ironically not the main issue.

The main issue is home charging. Local supplies are not designed for lots of people to have a high load for a long period. The infrastructure is shared between many houses which balanced the load. Fast charging at home, simply isn't going to happen.

 

9 hours ago, abaxas said:

Howcome, the EV nuts always think there is somewhere to charge or that the charger is local to the end of your journey.

I do a 220 mile journey every other week. 110 there, 110 back. The nearest charger is just over a mile away from my destination.

 

A brisk 1mile walk after that length of a drive would be good for you though, shake out the legs, etc... 😛

 

41 minutes ago, abaxas said:

 Fast charging at home, simply isn't going to happen.

Especially as proper fast charging requires a 3-phase supply and domestic dwellings only have a single phase supply.

Lets face it the whole idea is naff.

 

electric is not the future, just seems to be a fad at the moment

 

just like formula e thats naff too

Edited 22 January, 20206 yr by BigJase88

 

 

 

15 hours ago, KenONeill said:

You can absolutely guarantee that there will always be a free  outlet when I arrive at one!?  

This is why hubs make customer experience much better than single chargers dotted all over the place. The length of waiting time, if they were all full, is greatly reduced proportionally to the number of working chargers. 

 

13 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

Especially as proper fast charging requires a 3-phase supply and domestic dwellings only have a single phase supply.

At home, single phase 32 amp 7 KW charger is all that's needed. It's lower rating than electric showers. Over night, where your car is likely to be parked for over 10 hours, a 7 hour charge can get you almost 50 kWh, which is good for 150-200 miles. 

 

14 hours ago, abaxas said:

The main issue is home charging. Local supplies are not designed for lots of people to have a high load for a long period. The infrastructure is shared between many houses which balanced the load. Fast charging at home, simply isn't going to happen.

This is where Vehicle-2-Grid will help massively. I envision taxation on current "smart" home chargers. But tax free charging if you use V2G, where when parked up, your car will help smooth out neighbourhood demand peaks. 

 

In the short term, all EV adoption will do is bring up the off-peak (eg. between 11pm and 6am) to make a nicer flat line. 

https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2017/05/05/10103998/uk-peak-power-demand-shifts-to-earlier-in-the-day/

Perhaps Hyundai have a NEXO  solution and it’s only £65.990,,,,,,,don’t know if thatS with any type of grant?

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

This is why hubs make customer experience much better than single chargers dotted all over the place. The length of waiting time, if they were all full, is greatly reduced proportionally to the number of working chargers.

Which means ~nothing, since you don't attempt to quantify delay or "aggravation factor".

 

The delay will be (average time for a charger to come free + time your vehicle needs to charge). The aggravation factor will be (likelihood that time for a charger to come free) is high enough to cause the traveler(s) waiting to feel impatience and/or cause the driver to leave and then return to the vehicle (possibly having to split a break to do so).

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

Which means ~nothing, since you don't attempt to quantify delay or "aggravation factor".

 

The delay will be (average time for a charger to come free + time your vehicle needs to charge). The aggravation factor will be (likelihood that time for a charger to come free) is high enough to cause the traveler(s) waiting to feel impatience and/or cause the driver to leave and then return to the vehicle (possibly having to split a break to do so).

Average time for a charger to become free can be easily quantified: 

Single charger = Total time for another car to charge. Worst case is when you arrive as they are plugging in  = 1 charge time 

2 chargers = Likelihood of 2 cars arriving at the same time, thus giving us same worst case as single charger, is low. Average wait time = 0.5 charge time 

8 chargers = Highly improbable to have 8 cars start charging at the same time, so average time waiting for a charger to become free will be much lower = 0.125 charge time 

16 chargers = 1/16th charge time = 2 minutes of queue time on average for 30min charge time. 

 

Therefore: 

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

This is why hubs make customer experience much better than single chargers dotted all over the place. The length of waiting time, if they were all full, is greatly reduced proportionally to the number of working chargers. 

That's if they were all full. If chargers are built like Tesla superchargers. If the infrastructure are built before the cars reach customers, there won't be any aggravating factor  

 

There's how many e-Golf, i3, E-tron on the road already? Yet, there's only 3 working Ionity charging locations across UK.......... https://ionity.eu/en/about.html  It's almost as though they don't want EV to succeed.......

43 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

There's how many e-Golf, i3, E-tron on the road already?

Dunno, but there are a few Scalex electric cars near me. At the risk of being repetitive, my neighbour sold her's because it didn't have the range to reach Inverness without at least a partial recharge (which means one partial and one full recharge per one way trip). My Octy can do 2 returns and have some fuel to spare on one 10 minute (including time to pay) trip to a filling station.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

Dunno, but there are a few Scalex electric cars near me. At the risk of being repetitive, my neighbour sold her's because it didn't have the range to reach Inverness without at least a partial recharge (which means one partial and one full recharge per one way trip). My Octy can do 2 returns and have some fuel to spare on one 10 minute (including time to pay) trip to a filling station.

There so much more to owning a car than its ability to cover long distances. 

 

Yes, your neighbour is right to sell the car if they need to do that journey regularly. All the early EV with sub 150 miles are not suitable as the sole family car. 

 

But as daily car, battery electric are recognised as the best powertrain: 

 

 

22 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

There so much more to owning a car than its ability to cover long distances. 

 

Yes, your neighbour is right to sell the car if they need to do that journey regularly. All the early EV with sub 150 miles are not suitable as the sole family car. 

Yet again, not everyone can afford 2 (or more) cars!!

6 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Yet again, not everyone can afford 2 (or more) cars!!

Indeed. This is why I've said EV are not suitable as sole family car, and I've never said everyone should buy EV right now. 

@KenONeill

It somehow looks like an EV is not suitable for you, or anyone in your area, or anyone anywhere that does not want an EV.

Seems as though that is that then.

Not any use for wherever you are,  which you are shy to reveal but you drop clues to this remote location years behind the times so the whole EV thing should be dropped UK and World Wide.

 

There are Postcode areas in the UK including Scotland still getting Fuel Subsidy on Petrol & Diesel, supposedly because these rural areas fuels are costing more to be delivered, which is nonsense in some off the areas, it is time the locally produced electricity was cheaper, but then Free is Free where you get it and even a tight Highlander must see the bargain in that.

 

 

Paper+2+-+UK+rural+fuel+duty+relief.pdf

Edited 23 January, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

7 hours ago, wyx087 said:

At home, single phase 32 amp 7 KW charger is all that's needed. It's lower rating than electric showers. Over night, where your car is likely to be parked for over 10 hours, a 7 hour charge can get you almost 50 kWh, which is good for 150-200 miles.

But only if the assumption that charging at home for 7-10 hours is OK is valid.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

This is why I've said EV are not suitable as sole family car

So by your own admission there IS still a need for either petrol/diesel or hybrid cars?

Edited 23 January, 20206 yr by PetrolDave

27 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

So by your own admission there IS still a need for either petrol/diesel or hybrid cars?

For that particular family. 

 

It all depends on your needs: If you don't have need to regularly drive beyond range of your EV and have a driveway, can install home chargers, EV is perfect for you and there isn't a need for fossil fuelled car.