Failed 4 wheel alignment query

[Octaviarse]

Took the car in for alignment today. Have attached the print outs. They said they adjusted the front track as steering was out but they couldn't adjust the rear toe they wanted to adjust because they said it wasn't adjustable on the car.  Have since checked and this would appear to be *******s. Before I go back to them could somebody please have a look at the printouts and give some idea of what state they think the alignment is in and the extent to which bits need altering? Depending on what people think, i may well just go back to them for partial refund and take it somewhere where they have a better idea of what they're doing but I'm not clued up enough about it to make my demands or requests just yet! 

Cheers

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

Whereabouts in the country are you? Down here in Southampton we have an absolute wheel-alignment God with a Hunter system who sets up everything from road cars to full on racers. If you are anywhere near here, he comes highly recommended for setting up handling from me and about a million others.

 

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=&t=1668088

[Octaviarse]

Not a million miles away from Southampton to be fair. About fifty minutes. Could be worth a shot, thanks.

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

You're welcome. All I will say is that people come from miles away to use this chap. His name is Nick by the way. Good luck anyway!

[bigjohn]

What engine do you have? - Does the car have independent rear suspension or the torsion beam axle of the smaller engined versions ? The torsion axle is less adjustable!

 

 

Edited 7 January, 2020 by bigjohn

[KenONeill]

@Octaviarse - I was having similar thoughts to bigjohn about "is this a torsion beam or a true multi-link IRS model"?

[Octaviarse]

I didn't think to say but it's in one of the pics ... A (v)rs so independent rear suspension ... and a Skoda workshop manual that gives step by step instructions as to how to alter rear toe and camber settings. 😂

[bigjohn]

[EDIT]

VRS - so not torsion and is adjustable then.

 

In that case refer to plan A - 4 wheel alingment with a place that knows how to do it!

 

 

Edited 7 January, 2020 by bigjohn

[Ju1ian1001]

1 hour ago, Octaviarse said:

Took the car in for alignment today. Have attached the print outs. They said they adjusted the front track as steering was out but they couldn't adjust the rear toe they wanted to adjust because they said it wasn't adjustable on the car.  Have since checked and this would appear to be *******s. Before I go back to them could somebody please have a look at the printouts and give some idea of what state they think the alignment is in and the extent to which bits need altering? Depending on what people think, i may well just go back to them for partial refund and take it somewhere where they have a better idea of what they're doing but I'm not clued up enough about it to make my demands or requests just yet! 

Cheers

 

21 minutes ago, Octaviarse said:

I didn't think to say but it's in one of the pics ... A (v)rs so independent rear suspension ... and a Skoda workshop manual that gives step by step instructions as to how to alter rear toe and camber settings. 😂

Right you vehicle being a VRS the rear camber can be adjusted, rear toe has very limited adjustment if any, however adjusting the rear camber will to some extent (i will not be perfectly adjusted) pull the toe back in to tolorence, your VRS will drive straight but will wear the tyres quicker. The gauges they have used are a HUNTER setup if you look on the top of the print outs so no need to go to southhampton if it's a 50 minute drive as they WILL be the same. thay done a pretty good job there to be honest. Hope this helps. I do few alignments a week where i work (although our alignment gauges are not a HUNTER set the are very very similar and do the same thing) but not done MK3 VRS as yet done a couple of MK2's and the rear suspension is very similar, and mine has torsion beam rear, so only front can be done.

Edited 7 January, 2020 by Ju1ian1001

[Octaviarse]

14 minutes ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

 

Right you vehicle being a VRS the rear camber can be adjusted, rear toe has very limited adjustment if any, however adjusting the rear camber will to some extent (i will not be perfectly adjusted) pull the toe back in to tolorence, your VRS will drive straight but will wear the tyres quicker. The gauges they have used are a HUNTER setup if you look on the top of the print outs so no need to go to southhampton if it's a 50 minute drive as they WILL be the same. thay done a pretty good job there to be honest. Hope this helps.

Thanks. Seeing as you understand the figures better than I what makes you think it's a good job? They didn't adjust anything on the rear because they said there is no adjustment possible on the car because it has the wrong rear bushes or something like that. How badly 'out' is the right rear? It has a cross which makes me think 'bad' but I don't know really know.

[Ju1ian1001]

7 minutes ago, Octaviarse said:

Thanks. Seeing as you understand the figures better than I what makes you think it's a good job? They didn't adjust anything on the rear because they said there is no adjustment possible on the car because it has the wrong rear bushes or something like that. How badly 'out' is the right rear? It has a cross which makes me think 'bad' but I don't know really know.

The figures are showing the camber is fine, nothing to do with wrong bushes (bushes are just that bushes) not allowing adjustment, the adjustment is on an eccentric bolt, as you turn the bolt it moves the hub in and out therefore adjusting the camber, it's the toe that out, the right being the worst, toe is how the tyre points in or out, it will where one of the tyre faster, basiclly looking at the prints Green is good, red is bad.

 

 

Edited 7 January, 2020 by Ju1ian1001

[Octaviarse]

That's what I thought. So they don't really know what they're talking about then, i guess? 

[benterrier]

Always a nervous time with me having alignment adjustments and tyres replaced. 

My experience: Steering wheel on the p***, pulling to kerb, damaged sills marked alloys and knackered anti theft bolt spring to mind. This happened some years ago. Happy to say have found a centre with this Hunter system and understand how to use it.

Ask around the trade for reputable service.

[Octaviarse]

46 minutes ago, benterrier said:

Always a nervous time with me having alignment adjustments and tyres replaced. 

My experience: Steering wheel on the p***, pulling to kerb, damaged sills marked alloys and knackered anti theft bolt spring to mind. This happened some years ago. Happy to say have found a centre with this Hunter system and understand how to use it.

Ask around the trade for reputable service.

 

And staff who know their way around the car being worked on wouldn't go amiss either. 🤣

[Octaviarse]

Wanted to add that they took the readings whilst the boot was laden with over 40kgs of boxed alloy wheels. Can anybody confirm what sort of weight the car is supposed to be carrying when alignment done or is it immaterial?

[WayTooTall]

Do you have Adaptive Cruise at all?

 

If you do, then they may not have changed the rear setup because the ACC needs to be recalibrated as well. And that needs extra equipment and time to do.

[BoxerBoy]

We once received such a print out from the main dealer during a routine service. They recommended alignment at vast expense.  All *******s of course.

 

Fixed rear end.  Fractions of a degree showing on the printout.

 

Car continued to run perfectly ever after.

 

As above, dealers know nothing about alignment (they just have a big toy to play computer games with).  Others do - when the time comes.

Edited 8 January, 2020 by BoxerBoy

[Ju1ian1001]

10 hours ago, Octaviarse said:

Wanted to add that they took the readings whilst the boot was laden with over 40kgs of boxed alloy wheels. Can anybody confirm what sort of weight the car is supposed to be carrying when alignment done or is it immaterial?

Difficult one to answer, as it depends on the vehicle manufacture and model. Skoda i think it doesn't (don't take my word as gospel on that) matter and the hunter system adapts pretty well.

[hatchy]

I thought the only thing that couldn't adjusted on the mk3 was the front camber.

[Octaviarse]

22 minutes ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Difficult one to answer, as it depends on the vehicle manufacture and model. Skoda i think it doesn't (don't take my word as gospel on that) matter and the hunter system adapts pretty well.

To be fair, I think I clicked past a section in the workshop manual myself earlier that answers this so I should probably just read it in detail from the horse's mouth 😆

5 hours ago, WayTooTall said:

Do you have Adaptive Cruise at all?

 

If you do, then they may not have changed the rear setup because the ACC needs to be recalibrated as well. And that needs extra equipment and time to do.

No acc. It wasn't that unfortunately ... It was just they believe there are no adjustment points on the rear at all. 🤣

[Octaviarse]

22 hours ago, Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

You're welcome. All I will say is that people come from miles away to use this chap. His name is Nick by the way. Good luck anyway!

I'm going to see him tomorrow. Had a good chat on the phone and his pricing is honest. Said he doesn't charge to get it on the rollers and take readings anyway and he charges bit by bit depending on what has to be done and his maximum charge if everything needs adjusting is £50. He said he'd let me watch and talk me through what he does and why / how etc.

 

The local Skoda dealer on the other hand offered a full alignment for £149 which is more than I  want to fork out bearing in mind this is the second attempt and I'm not convinced their technician will necessarily be an alignment expert anyway.

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

That's good to hear, I think you'll be impressed. I've been going to him for years, he used to set up my 911 as well. Anyway I'll let it speak for itself, let us know how you get on.

 

Oh by the way, take cash ;)

[Octaviarse]

Yeh ... Was going to take cash for that sort of price 

[Gumby]

You didn’t take it to Formula one autocenters did you? 
they are a bunch of jokers, who amongst other issues (which I have a dispute open with)  messed up my alignment too. 

The person who did it the first time cheated and only adjusted one side to bring it in line with the other side, meaning the steering wheel was at 45 degrees. 
 

[Octaviarse]

3 hours ago, Gumby said:

You didn’t take it to Formula one autocenters did you? 
they are a bunch of jokers, who amongst other issues (which I have a dispute open with)  messed up my alignment too. 

The person who did it the first time cheated and only adjusted one side to bring it in line with the other side, meaning the steering wheel was at 45 degrees. 
 

 

 No ... Believe it or not it was a member of the 'good garage' scheme and (I later learned) a VAG group 'specialist'.