Battery low warning

[rum4mo]

I'm surprised that SEAT did not include an AGM battery in what must be 2nd down from their flagship Leon Cupra 300 ST - but there you go, every penny counts in each of these marques.

 

I was wrong about that Yuasa battery price, it was only £160!   The original size 027 frame AGM for our cars is roughly £150 from Tayna or £140 if you pick the next size up which is 096 frame - though swopping for that one requires some mod'ng of the battery tray - or fitting the bigger one, same for battery cover if it needs it!  Seems like the cost of a bigger battery tray is £25 as is the cost of a bigger cover.

 

Edit:- tray and cover prices just added to cover all potential costs of swopping.

Edited 20 February, 2020 by rum4mo

[Eccles]

One would have thought that by now the industry would have come up with something better: I have a battery powered (and rechargeable) rotary hammer drill which has a huge amount of power but the battery is not a ruddy great lump which cannot easily be carried with one hand.

[rum4mo]

29 minutes ago, Eccles said:

One would have thought that by now the industry would have come up with something better: I have a battery powered (and rechargeable) rotary hammer drill which has a huge amount of power but the battery is not a ruddy great lump which cannot easily be carried with one hand.

 

I think that the answer to that is cost, all these newer cars in the BDM system have in the battery technology options Lithium, I've not checked for availability or cost, but I'd reckon once I had found the cost, I'd drop that plan or saving weight.

[FabiaGonzales]

19 minutes ago, Eccles said:

One would have thought that by now the industry would have come up with something better: I have a battery powered (and rechargeable) rotary hammer drill which has a huge amount of power but the battery is not a ruddy great lump which cannot easily be carried with one hand.

It likely doesn't have either capacity or the ability to supply 600+ amps to turn an engine over though.

 

That said, you can get lithium ion batteries, being more solid-state than lead acid batteries they work better at low temperatures, however they don't respond well in the slightest to being overcharged and they also don't like running hot for extended periods of time, engine bays aren't the coolest of places. They are light(er) than the big lead acid lumps, but they aren't light.

 

They're cheaper, but also don't last as long as a good lead acid battery.

[FabiaGonzales]

I had a look at options for bigger batteries.

 

The Fabia MK3 has an enclosed type battery tray.

The 1.4 TDI uses size 096 battery, and has appropriate tray part number;

6C0915321D

 

The 1.0/1.2 TSI uses size 027 battery, and has part number;

6C0915331D

[abaxas]

4 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

It likely doesn't have either capacity or the ability to supply 600+ amps to turn an engine over though.

 

That said, you can get lithium ion batteries, being more solid-state than lead acid batteries they work better at low temperatures, however they don't respond well in the slightest to being overcharged and they also don't like running hot for extended periods of time, engine bays aren't the coolest of places. They are light(er) than the big lead acid lumps, but they aren't light.

 

They're cheaper, but also don't last as long as a good lead acid battery.

Most lithium battery chemistries are more temperature sensitive than lead acid. They hate high temperatures (>40c) and can't be charged at really low temperatures (-20c) without damage to the cells.

This is one of the reasons why tesla cars have such exotic cooling/heating for the battery packs.

Lead acid's only two disadvantages are low energy density and low state of charge effecting overall capacity.  That's why almost all modern EVs have a 12v system. Lead acid is more 'robust'.

 

[Eccles]

A fresh note after a few days research, etc:-

 I have been getting the same warning coming up on screen and imagined that it might be my habit of doing shortish journeys - don't go anywhere much at my age LOL. However on a VAG website I glanced at recently, they recommend batteries are replaced at five years and my motor will reach that age in just a few weeks so guess the battery (an EFB 59a/h stop/start) is due for retirement even though the black dot is still black. I have also discovered that a Yuasa YBX7027 stop/start 65 a/h EFB can be had for around £80 from a couple of internet traders which seems very fair to me. Furthermore, for anyone worried about radio codes which we used to have to get sorted a while back after fitting a new battery, apparently not but you will have to put the clock right if that is important to you.

[TerFar]

I had identical symptoms (third post from start). The battery was fine. Simply disconnecting the connection from the battery ground terminal to the Battery Control Module (also explained above) it resolved the problem, letting the battery fully charge and disabling the infuriating start/stop system. 

I reconnected the connection recently when I took the car in for MOT and service: the following day the same problem occured. Try the solution before commiting to a new expensive battery. 

[Eccles]

Well thanks for that TF but not many batteries get past 6 years in my experience - had to replace our Picanto's at the six year mark and that was not an every day car. So will try your suggestion but will probably buy fresh at the start of next winter unless the local garage says different.

[TerFar]

I don't think 6 years is old for a battery. But do try the BCM connector and go for a run to charge the battery fully. Then go back to your normal routine to see if it has cleared. 

[rum4mo]

14 hours ago, TerFar said:

I don't think 6 years is old for a battery. But do try the BCM connector and go for a run to charge the battery fully. Then go back to your normal routine to see if it has cleared. 

 

Unfortunately while that can be true, we are now dealing with EFB batteries and it seems that the car trade's hopes for a good long life out of them is not what owners are finding, though some of that will be down to the pattern of use - my wife's August 2015 VW Polo's battery has hopefully always been treated/used as intended, but it has dropped off massively in theoretical capacity and in CCA.  My older daughter's May 2019 SEAT Cupra is a pre-reg only sold/first used in August 2019, and its EFB battery has dropped off in capacity and CCA further and quicker than my wife's August 2015 Polo's EFB battery.

 

Being faced with a "non starter" can be very inconvenient so I aim to replace my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI battery sooner than later, maybe in late summer and if so, with an AGM version.

 

Edit:- I might have slightly improved the 2015 Polo EFB by running a de-sulphating charging program, I might repeat that in a few months, maybe that could help recover @Eccles situation enough to extend that battery's usable life.

Edited 5 March, 2020 by rum4mo

[abaxas]

Another thing to consider is that over the years companies have fitted smaller batteries to their vehicles. Hence lifespan is reduced.

 

[Eccles]

...and finally, the next car I will get will have a starting handle. In the far off days of my youth starting handles were still quite common and so relatively small cheap batteries which went on for ever were the norm. One went through a bit of a learning curve with starting handles because if you didn't get it right there could be a backfire with the possibilty of a sprained wrist.

[rum4mo]

(tongue stuck in cheek) The problem can be that most cars now have their engines fitted sideways for some reason and so getting a cranking handle in is a bit trickier - leaving it in and driving away even worse, so maybe progress is a good thing - good thing for battery sellers anyway.

[Eccles]

Yeah that was one of the really daft things they did - everything got a lot more complicated and expensive to maintain after that. My first car was a S/H Ford Prefect with starting handle. It didn't go very quickly but it was tough as old boots and any old idiot could service it so no expensive garage bills; you just went round the nipples with a grease gun once a year and occasionally cleaned and checked the spark plug gaps. Can't recall when the the oll change change was done but it didn't matter much because the oil was cheap as chips. These days one has to take out a bank loan before taking one's car to the garage but it should not be that way.

Edited 11 July, 2020 by Eccles

[Ootohere]

Oop north those oil changes might be twice a year for those that put in different oil in winter.

Then turning the Airfilter around to the 'winter' position.

[macsmurf]

The new 5.1 Beta version of Carista now enables battery registration for VAG vehicles.

[rum4mo]

11 minutes ago, macsmurf said:

The new 5.1 Beta version of Carista now enables battery registration for VAG vehicles.

 

So in a month or so's time it should end up getting into the next issue.

[Eccles]

On 25/09/2020 at 23:41, macsmurf said:

Carista

Hey this is sounds great but will someone explain how it works and where to buy.

[AGFalco]

3 hours ago, Eccles said:

where to buy

Info here:-

https://caristaapp.com/

 

and here:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carista-Bluetooth-Adapter-Scanner-Technology/dp/B00YVHGTBM

 

Thanks, AG Falco

[Micky 32]

My 2017 Passat 240 was fitted with a 680 A EN Varta AGM. Car has done 103k miles. I bought one of them Topdon battery testers. I also have a bluetooth battery monitor. I can log cranking voltage on my phone with it.

 

I have noticed the starter doesn’t have the same kick in the mornings. According to my bluetooth monitor i get “ low cranking voltage”. Lowest i have seen is 8.39v. Usually hovers around 9- 9.2 v cranking. I believe it shouldn’t be lower than 9.6v? Interestingly when cranking voltage drops below 9v my heated steering wheel mysteriously turns itself on after the crank. My start/stop works flawlessly.

 

Now for the Topdon battery test. My battery reads circa 515A with a SOH reading of 55-60 % but says “Good Battery”

 

For comparison i tested my friends year old Passat. His battery is a Varta EFB+ rated at 700A EN. My tester reads 840 ish A 100% SOH.

[AGFalco]

I presume you have the battery tester set to the right type of battery. AGM EGB or normal lead acid?

 

On a car with stop/start the car should not recharge the battery to 100%.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

[Micky 32]

11 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

I presume you have the battery tester set to the right type of battery. AGM EGB or normal lead acid?

 

On a car with stop/start the car should not recharge the battery to 100%.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

Yep. Set to AGM. State of charge hovers on average between 12.5/12.6 when rested as expected  . My state of health at 50/60% in comparison to a new battery that reads 100% is quite a difference.

Edited 4 October, 2020 by Micky 32

[AGFalco]

SOC looks good, just SOH down.

 

The testers I use regularly display figures that don't make sense.

We normally recharge and retest the battery again.

 

Have you tried to charge the battery with a 'smart' charger?

Also with the Fabia you don't connect the negative lead to the battery but to a separate place in the inner wing. 

 

Thanks, AG Falco

[Micky 32]

4 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

SOC looks good, just SOH down.

 

The testers I use regularly display figures that don't make sense.

We normally recharge and retest the battery again.

 

Have you tried to charge the battery with a 'smart' charger?

Also with the Fabia you don't connect the negative lead to the battery but to a separate place in the inner wing. 

 

Thanks, AG Falco

No don’t have a smart charger. The car gets lots of use though. 103k in 3.5 years. I was thinking of disconnecting the sensor on the battery for a few days  so it might get a good charge but was concerned it might affect the charging cycle afterwards by disrupting the battery data, thinking the car might think it has a new battery fitted etc.