The 2,000kg is artificial as it is just the restart weight of a ballasted flat bed trailer on an 8% or 12% hill (different manufacturers use different figures), and as a caravan is about a 1000 cubic foot of 'sail' you want to be as much below the 85% recommendation as possible, just so the tail doesn't wag the dog.

I have just returned from a week in York, driving there was absolutely howling and apart from the occasional correction in steering drove without issue and ran true.

 

the way back was even worse.  Sat off in sun, then had heavy wind & rain, sleet and then snow.  All this in heavy traffic.  The car performed brilliantly, lots of power for getting past heavies and extremely stable in the gusts.

 

At the time I bought mine I considered the 190bhp but whilst on paper more power, only had slight more torque but economy worse so went with a compromise and a tuning box.    Plus I don’t need any AdBlue.

 

Don’t know what the newer engines are like so can’t comment, but this is the second superb I have had and would definitely have another.

18 hours ago, NJRJ said:

The 2,000kg is artificial as it is just the restart weight of a ballasted flat bed trailer on an 8% or 12% hill (different manufacturers use different figures), and as a caravan is about a 1000 cubic foot of 'sail' you want to be as much below the 85% recommendation as possible, just so the tail doesn't wag the dog.

 

Exactly. Anyone planning on tugging two tonnes of caravan with a Superb has either bought the wrong car or the wrong caravan. It would be madness.

As my caravan is under 1400kg fully loaded I won't be worrying!  In the past I towed across southern France, at right angles to the Mistrale. When we stopped for a comfort break the wind almost blew you off your feet, which made me realise how well the van was behaving.

 

Seriously though, my late Mondeo proved to be an excellent towcar with the same van. The weights were similar and I don't anticipate any problems. Modern vans are much more nose-heavy than in days of yore and loading nowadays seems contrary to the old days. Any experienced tower will know what to look for I hope. 

Since when have sails been measured by volume and not area?

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Since when have sails been measured by volume and not area?

 

Ok I'll let you highlight the side area/rear area/frontal area aspect that windage has when towing...

Well it wouldn't be a cubic area were I to do so.

What does the 'tuning box' do, and where do you get them from?

11 hours ago, Sandgroper said:

What does the 'tuning box' do, and where do you get them from?

sorry but I am not able advise how it works.

 

but the box has 7 settings and each one is noticeably different.  You can go less power for economy, middle of the road for improve torque/power which I use for towing and also a high setting for outright performance.

 

but different cars react differently.  I have used TDI Tuning for many years.  They provide great advice and an excellent product.  Additionally they provide a service where if you change your car you can return the unit and wiring loom and they’ll reprogram and re-loom the setup to your new vehicle for a smaller amount compared to buying a new unit.

On 15/02/2020 at 14:23, Steevie Wonder said:

I’d consider getting one of the 4x4 versions, either 150ps manual or 190ps DSG for towing.

Im sure the 150ps version could be tuned up to 180/190ps with a tuning box  or remap.

 

Steve.

 

Presumably you will need to declare the remap to your insurance company? From work that I have done on a modern classic they tend to hit you hard!

 

There are Insurers that charge very little extra for a Remap or Tuning box.

Obviously there are others that will not entertain you unless a standard car.  The insurance section have members that say who they use like Admiral.

6 hours ago, Sandgroper said:

 

You could that way, and you do get a slight weight gain, which always helps when towing.  But what must be considered is the extra costs involved in purchasing this higher spec machine, the servicing costs for the DSG g/box and the 4x4 drive system, the more expensive insurance, and the one you’ll see more often is the Fuel station as weight means fuel consumption becomes much more.

 

you have to take all points on board and decide if you can justify them for your requirements and afford them, and if not where you can compromise and work your way back to a spec that will work for you and is within budget.

 

I tow a 1460MTPLM Van with my SEL 150 DSG. I have to say I've never had an issue with grunt, it pulls quite happily up some pretty steep inclines. 

The thing I've struggled with is the pitching, maybe it's my combo, but I find with the huge boot and long overhang it can be quite a bumpy ride. Maybe I run too much NW 85-90kg?

 

Out of interest what Nose weights do fellow S3 owners tow with? 

11 hours ago, Fraczish said:

I tow a 1460MTPLM Van with my SEL 150 DSG. I have to say I've never had an issue with grunt, it pulls quite happily up some pretty steep inclines. 

The thing I've struggled with is the pitching, maybe it's my combo, but I find with the huge boot and long overhang it can be quite a bumpy ride. Maybe I run too much NW 85-90kg?

 

Out of interest what Nose weights do fellow S3 owners tow with? 

My van is 1780kg all up and I always run 85kg nose.  Any more or less and the car bounces.  Was the same with the previous car as well so I think it must be a function of the van more than the tow car.  I can stick the DCC in sport to stiffen the suspension which helps in one way but makes the ride less comfortable in others. 

Hi all, for the past ten years (since buying my Bailey) I have gone for a 90kg noseweight. I left Citroen because they dropped to 65kg!

 

When I bought my van I loaded it as was the convention and as I had loaded before. My test had been that if I could lift the tow hitch by hand it was about right. I couldn't move the new van hitch. A call to Bailey and they informed me that the empty, as delivered, noseweight was 84kg!!!!!! Their advice was to move my load rearwards. I did that and got the noseweight that I wanted (90kg). I carry my spare and a full sized spare for the car all rear of the axle, plus awnings etc. The van towed like a dream, no pitching or swaying. That was with a Ford Mondeo. Others may have different stories!

 

I haven't yet towed with the Superb but I intend to have a few trial trips before our France hols. 

 

If you look at van profiles in the general changes led, I believe, by Bailey and their Alu Tech introduction, the axle has been moved backwards to give a more stable tow. The disadvantage is that it increases the noseweight inevitably.  The only way to proceed is to balance the van to give your desired noseweight and then check it out in motion, but carefully! Even caravanners with 100kg noseweight capability have trouble because that is the Alko hitch limit.

 

The introduction of the electronic control to steady the caravan may well have been the way that the manufacturers solved the sway problem. 

I've always aimed for 85-90kg NW in my SEL EXEC, with a full boot (not especially heavy) I find it quite pitchy. I do not have DCC. I suspect the long overhang doesn't help. We are away next week I'm going to try 75-80kg as it seems to get worse the closer to 90kg I get which defies convention I know.

As I indicated on my previous post when you take into account the 'as delivered' noseweight much of the old best practice cannot be applied. Have you measured the noseweight when the van is empty? It should give you an idea just how the van is balanced and therefore a guide as to where your packing should be focused.

 

I try to keep the heaviest items  close to the axle line, though aft of it. You can then balance things by shifting lighter stuff about. No water in the system, minimal water in the loo flush etc.

3 hours ago, highflight130 said:

My van is 1780kg all up and I always run 85kg nose.  Any more or less and the car bounces.  Was the same with the previous car as well so I think it must be a function of the van more than the tow car.  I can stick the DCC in sport to stiffen the suspension which helps in one way but makes the ride less comfortable in others. 

Caravan and motoring organisations recommend a van MTPLM/car operating weight towing ratio of 85%, or an absolute max for experienced towers of 100%. If my maths is correct, you are towing at around 106%. That's... interesting. And yes, I know Skoda's max weight limit is higher than that.

 

 

2 hours ago, PaulsSuperb said:

Caravan and motoring organisations recommend a van MTPLM/car operating weight towing ratio of 85%, or an absolute max for experienced towers of 100%. If my maths is correct, you are towing at around 106%. That's... interesting. And yes, I know Skoda's max weight limit is higher than that.

 

 

I concur, as stated earlier in this thread :

 

On 02/03/2020 at 23:34, taurean7 said:

 

also be aware that you can only legally tow at 100% of minimum kerb weight if you are an experienced tower.  Otherwise it is 85% of this figure.  THE Book does say my car can tow 2000kg but UK law is different.  I have had this discussion with both caravan clubs and the police but you can’t tow what the book says, you HAVE to refer to minimum kerb weight.  

 

If stopped by police (weigh bridge) or VOSA then if towing at 2000kg you will have a problem.

I have been to a few shows now and discussed with the reps of both clubs on different occasions, also there was at one show a police stand for security advice and I asked them too.

 

the towing criteria is a UK law, the manuals are produced for global needs in English speaking countries and their laws could be different and allow the quoted limit.

 

However in UK if towing greater than your minimum kerb weight and you are checked, you may have to adjust your load between van & car or (worst case) unload and leave behind 😩 and depending on the officer they could give you a ticket for the breach.  This would be at their discretion 👮‍♂️

1 hour ago, taurean7 said:

I concur, as stated earlier in this thread :

 

I have been to a few shows now and discussed with the reps of both clubs on different occasions, also there was at one show a police stand for security advice and I asked them too.

 

the towing criteria is a UK law, the manuals are produced for global needs in English speaking countries and their laws could be different and allow the quoted limit.

 

However in UK if towing greater than your minimum kerb weight and you are checked, you may have to adjust your load between van & car or (worst case) unload and leave behind 😩 and depending on the officer they could give you a ticket for the breach.  This would be at their discretion 👮‍♂️

The Law is you cannot exceed the kerb weight of your vehicle or the max train weight ( vehicle and trailer combined). Nose weight will just add to your kerb weight and then mostly on the rear axel.  So for my S3 estate 190 4x4 it's 2325 kerb weight split 1160 front 1210 rear ( note the combined max axel weights are greater than the max kerb) and max train is 4525kg. So that links to the noted max trailer weight of 2200kg.   The car weighs around 1685 including a light driver and tank of fuel.  So lots of payload.  The 85% guide has been around since the 1980s and if you look into the history it was 75% in the 70s and 65% when these things were first even talked about.  It's a rough guide to an average driver staying safe towing on and average day with limited experience.  Add in stability control on cars, which didn't exist when the rules came in, and even stability on the trailers including hitch stabilisers and your percentage goes up while still being safe.

3 minutes ago, highflight130 said:

The Law is you cannot exceed the kerb weight of your vehicle or the max train weight ( vehicle and trailer combined). Nose weight will just add to your kerb weight and then mostly on the rear axel.  So for my S3 estate 190 4x4 it's 2325 kerb weight split 1160 front 1210 rear ( note the combined max axel weights are greater than the max kerb) and max train is 4525kg. So that links to the noted max trailer weight of 2200kg.   The car weighs around 1685 including a light driver and tank of fuel.  So lots of payload.  The 85% guide has been around since the 1980s and if you look into the history it was 75% in the 70s and 65% when these things were first even talked about.  It's a rough guide to an average driver staying safe towing on and average day with limited experience.  Add in stability control on cars, which didn't exist when the rules came in, and even stability on the trailers including hitch stabilisers and your percentage goes up while still being safe.

Yep I agree with everything you say, except if stopped by police or VOSA might have a problem.  As advised I had this discussion/argument with both caravanning clubs and a representative of the police.  I was told if I was stopped towing a caravan exceeding the advised parameter I would be stopped from continuing and ordered to adjust/unload, and if the van was too heavy for the car I would have to get recovered home and possibly prosecuted (so i took that as a NO then)! 😩

 

they all re-affirmed that the minimum kerb weight, ie, car natural weight with driver and fuel is the maximum weight you can “legally” tow.  Obviously then you can load the car with whatever you want. Including the roof.  Then the max train weight comes into play, ie,  the cars gross weight plus the caravan mustn’t exceed that amount.

 

This I found to be a total bummer as I was at the time looking at a twin axle van with my ideal spec but it had a weight of 1800kgs.  I told them this as I really wanted that van but they told me to tow it I would probably need a bigger car or a large suv.  If I was stopped by them I would not be allowed to continue my journey.  I was gutted!

 

i also agree about the extra features that cars have that “assist” in towing, but I have been on a driver training day where I was told that you must never drive in a manner that you rely on these features, because if they fail/break you must still be able to retain control of the vehicle.

I tend to stick to 80kg (1350kg MTPLM on a 280 4x4) as the car and caravan seem happy with that and it allows for any measurement error caused by my road and driveway being slightly sloped. There's always weight in the boot though (either mobility scooter or luggage) and I set the drive mode to individual with suspension and steering set to sport.  I also have one of the roll-over measuring plates (name escapes me) so take a measure of the caravan's weight at the start of the season to make sure I'm legal.

 

The only occasion for a bit of up/down action (🧐) is the hill out of my village.  The road surface is so poor (undulating with many a pot-hole) that it tends to induce some pitching. Once I'm off the hilly bit it's all good and the car settles.

 

There are many people on the various caravan forums who insist that 85% is a legal limit whilst others point out they've towed at 100% since Adam was a lad without issue.  Caravanners eh? 😁

 

54 minutes ago, highflight130 said:

The Law is you cannot exceed the kerb weight of your vehicle or the max train weight ( vehicle and trailer combined). Nose weight will just add to your kerb weight and then mostly on the rear axel.  So for my S3 estate 190 4x4 it's 2325 kerb weight split 1160 front 1210 rear ( note the combined max axel weights are greater than the max kerb) and max train is 4525kg. So that links to the noted max trailer weight of 2200kg.   The car weighs around 1685 including a light driver and tank of fuel.  So lots of payload.  The 85% guide has been around since the 1980s and if you look into the history it was 75% in the 70s and 65% when these things were first even talked about.  It's a rough guide to an average driver staying safe towing on and average day with limited experience.  Add in stability control on cars, which didn't exist when the rules came in, and even stability on the trailers including hitch stabilisers and your percentage goes up while still being safe.

 

I don't understand this. You say your kerb weight is 2325 (?) but go on to say 'the car weighs around 1685'. 

1 hour ago, PaulsSuperb said:

 

I don't understand this. You say your kerb weight is 2325 (?) but go on to say 'the car weighs around 1685'. 

I have just looked at the Skoda brochure and a superb estate L&K 2.0 TDI 4x4 190bhp DSG is quoted as having a Gross Vehicle Weight of 2327kg.  The Minimum Kerb Weight is rated as 1687kg-1890kg.

 

as per Wikipedia and the British Govt website the Gross Vehicle Weight (otherwise referred to as Maximum Authorised Mass) is the maximum weight your car is allowed to be full of passengers & belongs/luggage.

 

So yes 2327kg MAM and the towing limit quoted of 2200kg does get to 4500kg max train.

 

However, the point that must be understood and adhered to is what the “UK law” uses for governing what you can and cannot tow.

 

As stated all clubs and police use the minimum kerb weight and that is what we are governed by.