The Coronavirus (COVID-19) Topic.

[moley]

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

 

Your welcome.  Stay Alert.

 

Be alert, Britain needs lerts. 

[skomaz]

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

I think they mean that ventilating is relatively low maintenance ie only turning every 16 hours and dealing with any alarms whereas if a patient is awake they need more interaction and the NHS just have not the staff in busy hospitals to cope.

 

 

Actually what the doctor was referring to by 'numbers' is the measured oxygen levels - not numbers of patients - ie do they treat on the basis of measured oxygen levels or patient symptoms...   nothing to do with staffing levels.

 

Read again and you'll understand:

 

"We've had patients with oxygen measures of just five kilopascals [70-75 per cent of normal] who are talking to us normally and have no obvious air hunger [gasping for breath]”, said Dr Daniels. "Normally anyone with numbers like that would be ventilated, but increasingly with Covid patients we are considering holding back. "The question everyone is asking is, do we treat symptoms or do we treat the numbers? 

Edited 18 May, 2020 by skomaz

[gadgetman]

A good write up of where I've been at for a while. 

 

The last paragraph sums up the debrief options 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-didn-t-boris-act-sooner-against-coronavirus-

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, gadgetman said:

A good write up of where I've been at for a while. 

 

The last paragraph sums up the debrief options 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-didn-t-boris-act-sooner-against-coronavirus-

Resonates with an article I read the other day from the British Medical Journal titled 'Too little, too late, too flawed'.
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1932

[BJM]

Speaking as someone whose wife was yesterday taken off a ventilator and is currently on a nasal cannula, I would like to thank the nursing staff in DCC (formerly ICU) for saving her life and improving her condition to the point that her underlying condition can be dealt wth soon.

 

To those self-opinionated people who seem to think that being in an induced coma on a ventilator requires minimum input with occasional turning and otherwise just listening for auto alarms, you are talking your usual standard of ignorant b o l l o x.

She has been constantly attended by nurses on a 1 to 1 basis (Occasionally a 1 to 2 basis) 24 hours per day, with the nurses working 12 or 14 hour shifts 4 days on 3 off.

 

There is a hell of a lot more to real life than just reading selective tweets, newspapers and TV programmes and then interpreting those “facts” to fit your personal prejudices and world view. 

You have absolutely no idea of what really happens in an isolation DCC ward, but in this, as in most things, consider yourselves instant experts.

 

I am sick to death of reading these antagonistic threads. I’m out of here. I’ve got things to sort out for whenever she gets home.

[Arkaig]

14 minutes ago, BJM said:

To those self-opinionated people who seem to think that being in an induced coma on a ventilator requires minimum input with occasional turning and otherwise just listening for auto alarms, you are talking your usual standard of ignorant b o l l o x.

 

@BJM - as someone with recent experiences of ICU both in Norway and Scotland, I thank you for expressing reality so eloquently.

Edited 19 May, 2020 by Arkaig

[moley]

2 minutes ago, BJM said:

Speaking as someone whose wife was yesterday taken off a ventilator and is currently on a nasal cannula, I would like to thank the nursing staff in DCC (formerly ICU) for saving her life and improving her condition to the point that her underlying condition can be dealt wth soon.

 

To those self-opinionated people who seem to think that being in an induced coma on a ventilator requires minimum input with occasional turning and otherwise just listening for auto alarms, you are talking your usual standard of ignorant b o l l o x.

She has been constantly attended by nurses on a 1 to 1 basis (Occasionally a 1 to 2 basis) 24 hours per day, with the nurses working 12 or 14 hour shifts 4 days on 3 off.

 

There is a hell of a lot more to real life than just reading selective tweets, newspapers and TV programmes and then interpreting those “facts” to fit your personal prejudices and world view. 

You have absolutely no idea of what really happens in an isolation DCC ward, but in this, as in most things, consider yourselves instant experts.

 

I am sick to death of reading these antagonistic threads. I’m out of here. I’ve got things to sort out for whenever she gets home.

Glad to hear your wife is on the mend. We lost a neighbour / friend at Easter who had underlying health issues and was on a ventilator for 10 days. His wife told me that the staff at the hospital were very good and that their daughter was also admitted with Covid 19. It was touch and go if she needed a ventilator. In the end she didn't need it, but they had one ready if she did, so the Hospitals don't just put patients on a ventilator because it's easier for them as some of our 'experts' claim.  

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, BJM said:

There is a hell of a lot more to real life than just reading selective tweets, newspapers and TV programmes and then interpreting those “facts” to fit your personal prejudices and world view. 

You have absolutely no idea of what really happens in an isolation DCC ward, but in this, as in most things, consider yourselves instant experts.

 

 

I would also add  "consider yourselves very fortunate"

 

I am very pleased to hear your wife has turned the corner, I will keep my fingers crossed for her and you.

[lol-lol]

Finally some good news on the Excess death data that it has substantially fallen although still 3k Excess deaths is a huge tragedy but much better than the 12ks of the previous couple of weeks.....

One note of caution it could be some slow registration as 8th May was a BH.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending8may2020

Main points

• The number of death registrations was impacted by the Early May Bank Holiday; the number of registrations decreased from 2,950 deaths on Friday 1 May 2020 to 88 deaths on Friday 8 May 2020.

• The number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 8 May 2020 (Week 19) was 12,657, a decrease for the third week running but 3,081 more than the five-year average for Week 19.

• Of the deaths registered in Week 19, 3,930 mentioned "novel coronavirus (COVID-19)", which was 31.1% of all deaths; this is a decrease of 2,105 deaths compared with Week 18 (33.6% of all deaths).

• The number of deaths involving COVID-19 decreased in most age groups; the age groups that had small increases were those aged under one year and those aged between 20 and 34 years.

• The number of deaths in care homes (from all causes) for Week 19 decreased from 6,409 to 4,248; however, deaths involving COVID-19 as a percentage of all deaths in care homes continued to rise to 39.2% compared with 37.8% in Week 18.

Edited 19 May, 2020 by lol-lol

[@Lee]

13 hours ago, moley said:

Hospitals don't just put patients on a ventilator because it's easier for them as some of our 'experts' claim.  

Moley, without any desire or wish to get into an argument over this but I don't think anyone has actually claimed or said that.

BJM, I wish your wife and you all the best and hopefully she makes a speedy recovery   This comes from the heart and someone who's dad was on a CPAP type ventilator at the end of January and early February. 

[lol-lol]

Even the Sun is picking up how wrong this government policy was.....

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11658464/elderly-symptoms-care-homes-hancock/

LEFT TO DIE 

Elderly hospital patients with virus symptoms sent to care homes WITHOUT tests – but Hancock says testing ‘top priority’

 ELDERLY patients who had virus symptoms were sent from hospitals back into care homes, it was claimed today.

 

Professor Martin Green, Chief Executive of Care England, told the Health Select Committee this morning that there were "cases of people....who were symptomatic discharged into care homes" and not isolated. 

"We should have prioritised care homes both in the planning that went on in 2016, but also in the planning that went on at the very start of this."

He said that testing is improving but some people are still waiting up to ten days for a test.

"We need regular testing, 2-3 times a week, if we are to really get on top of this," he stressed.

The Chief Scientific Adviser to the Ministry of Defence, Angela McClean, said this evening that it was "possible" to do testing in 48 hours - as other countries had shown.

[essexalan]

Testing being carried out in Hong Kong regarding the effectiveness of face masks......on hamsters

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3084779/coronavirus-hamster-research-proof-effectiveness

 

Interesting but surely this means that artificially infected hamsters can pass on the infection to just about any living creature. I hope they keep the cages well secured. 

Another point would be that the infected hamsters were passing on the virus by respiration alone doubt there was any coughing and sneezing involved.

[Ootohere]

So Jacob Rees-Mogg MP says that MP's returning to work will have the Congestion Charge paid for them so that they can drive into work and park.

 

Nice one. All in this together, no getting on their bikes for them.

 

We will see if the Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack MP  was right to travel from his home in Scotland to be in Westminster and if by the rules in Scotland he could not do his work from home.

A Scottish resident, tax payer and citizen.

[shyVRS245]

Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics were 33% of deaths in hospitals it has been announced. High blood sugar levels is also a factor in obesity also causing many deaths which is probably a factor in the USA as the fitter a nation's population as well as older populations most likely to suffer more than younger, fitter nations.

[Ootohere]

Linked to 1/3rd of the deaths in England not the UK.  & dying in Hospital so the figures if including deaths in Care Homes and elsewhere could be different since many elderly never got taken into hospital or ICU.

 

So there will be graphs again to show if the same or different in the other 3 nations.

Maybe higher in Scotland...

 

As the Diabetes expert was saying on Radio 4 today you need to be looking at the age group of those dying and the amount of the population with diabetes diagnosed and un-diagnosed in those age groups.

Obesity will be a factor, and the related underlying illnesses that goes with both obesity and diabetes such as heart, lung and kidney functions and hypertension.

 

The Older might be the fat and 40 and overs. Those that are 40-70 year old sort of thing.

Funnily those that are old as in born before the war and have survived to be in their 80's and 90's and over 100 might not be diabetic type 2.

They were not fat when younger, had less sugar and healthier diets in the UK.  Hence they got to live to an old age.

Edited 20 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Ootohere]

Sir Iain Duncan (debunking) Smith MP rolled out to defend the indefensible or as he does just deny any suggestions of any unhappiness.

 

Is real talent is that he can lie so easily and without blinking or blushing or ever accepting when shown evidence of something apologising.

Edited 20 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[@Lee]

So, despite what Johnson said about the track and trace app being ready for June 1st, it won't be. I know, I'm as shocked as you are.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-x-app-launch-contact-trace-scheme-uk-a9524191.html

16:51 in this https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/may/20/uk-coronavirus-live-school-rebellion-english-primaries-pmqs-covid-19-latest-news-updates

[Ootohere]

Ahh they are rolling out the Professional PR person for todays Daily Breifing.

He really is yet another that lies easily.  

 

Lets see how his career goes after parliament, he does look like a rather bad double glazing salesperson when toeing the line with Dominic Cummings lines for the day.

 

PS

So the question was asked about what Robert Buckland QC MP said this morning on Care Homes and testing. Welsh and too honest for Boris's good.

That was what Sir Iain Duncan Smith MP must have been saying he was not aware of then. 

Must have been polishing his shoes when that was being reported earlier today

Edited 20 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Ootohere]

The doctor today (Prof Steven Powis) standing giving opinions and experience really is going to be up for questions now on what he said about sure what other doctors would do and not discharge patients into Care Homes if they were not sure that they were not infected.

 

The proof is in the pudding since there were people moved into care homes untested or before test results had come back in.

That was in England which he is there representing, and in the other 3 nations.

 

Edited 20 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[@Lee]

Well done, Johnson. Another wave coming. 
 

Quote

Beaches across England have been seeing high numbers of visitors apparently defying coronavirus concerns.

Cars from "all over the country" were in gridlock in Devon, police said.

In Cornwall, Perranporth beach had hundreds of people on it, while the warm weather also brought people out to Southend seafront in Essex.

In Merseyside, people visited Sefton's beaches despite pleas to stay away, and there was a reported 40-minute queue for a toilet in Skegness.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-52742519

[moley]

Coronavirus: Virus outbreaks push Germany to clean up abattoirs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52738356

Quote

'Ashamed' by mass infection of Romanians

The issue of poor working conditions in German meat-packing factories was raised after a cluster of coronavirus infections were recorded at a slaughterhouse in the western German city of Münster over the weekend.

At another slaughterhouse in Coesfeld, North Rhine-Westphalia, more than 260 workers - many living in shared accommodation - tested positive for the virus.

 

[Ootohere]

Hoards of people at the seaside or beauty spots or just anyplace in England and no public toilets / facilities, 

but also in Scotland, and i have no idea about Wales or Northern Ireland.

 

So pee and pooing getting done where ever might be something Jacob Rees-Mogg, Michael Gove, George Eustice, Grant Shapps, Matt Hanckock, Dominic Raab or some minion might want to deal with.

Maybe Boris could be in charge of where people can do the necessary without a health risk to locals.

[@Lee]

@moley It's not good news but there's been other countries as well that have had problems with Coronavirus in abattoirs. Just an FYI 

[@Lee]

15 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

Maybe Boris could be in charge of where people can do the necessary without a health risk to locals.

Johnson is too busy dealing with what comes out of his mouth let alone being a walking public health risk.

[moley]

18 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

@moley It's not good news but there's been other countries as well that have had problems with Coronavirus in abattoirs. Just an FYI 

Problems in France as well evidently.

Seems that the Government were slow to act after turning a blind eye.

Quote

Foreign workers are forced to endure inhumane living conditions so that we can eat cheap meat. Politicians can no longer ignore what's happening at German slaughterhouses, says DW's Miodrag Soric.

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-coronavirus-highlights-scandalous-conditions-in-germanys-meat-industry/a-53397570