The Coronavirus (COVID-19) Topic.

[skomaz]

2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

I remember something from History at school about ice cream in the UK in the 1800's. It was sold in a glass jar and people said 'penny a lick, makes you sick' as the glass jars weren't washed and it was spreading (IIRC) Typhus. 
My mistake, it was Cholera http://www.amalgamate-safety.com/2018/05/08/horrible-health-and-safety-histories-penny-licks/

 

Your not far off there Lee...   they were called Penny Licks and the glass was actually washed or rinsed but in the same pot of water...   thus spreading the germs.

 

My wife's great grandfather was from Ticino and apparently a relative of Carlo Gatti who is generally credited with bringing ice cream to london.  He came here to work in the ice cream trade with other family members before serving in the army and miving to Northern Ireland.  However he was a bit of a black sheep, changing his name to something more 'local' and also had wives and a family in both countries

 

One of the intersting points of the trade is that the ice came from scandinavian countries by boat and was held in deep ice wells that the men climbed down into to dig out the days supplies, boots and all.  Also the ice cream carts were horse drawn and the horses were generally stabled directly above the wells...   so i'll leave you to guess how hygeinic that was!

Edited 18 April, 2020 by skomaz

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

The figure is given as 1/4 of the deaths in Scotland being in Care Homes, is the figures not available for deaths in care homes or not in hospital for England, Wales and Northern Ireland?

 

Only weekly in the Tuesday ONS figures I understand. 

Even though out on a Tuesday they relate to a few days before then, the Tuesday 21st April data covering up to 10th of April should start showing the massively escalating deaths in Care Homes. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020 

 

[@Lee]

This seems more like a complete dereliction of duty than leadership.
 

Quote

Boris Johnson skipped five Cobra meetings on the virus, calls to order protective gear were ignored and scientists’ warnings fell on deaf ears. Failings in February may have cost thousands of lives

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

[cheezemonkhai]

Well you know what... maybe if the public took it seriously.
 

In the last few days:

 

Shoppers who lean over you, never mind keep 2m away

 

People gathering in small groups on benches to drink.

 

one complete (blank) of a runner was even coughing to get people out of his way.
 

He told the misses she read too much media and to get lost when she told him to keep distance. His time was clearly more important than people’s lives.

 

then you have the curtain twitchers recording couples from their houses, or asking why they’re out together. One because they couldn’t be a couple as the two were different races.

All these people are selfish, are increasing the lockdown and stress and think they know best.

 

I actually think I’d like to see The police do something about these people.

 

Whilst PPE appears to be an issue, right now people need to take this seriously, as that will make the biggest difference.

[@Lee]

14 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Well you know what... maybe if the public took it seriously.

Are you saying that it's the peoples fault for not taking it seriously and not the Government's fault?
People were crying out all over SM to close the schools etc etc at least a week before the UK went into an ambiguous lock down.
In fact people pulled their kids out of school of their own volition rather than wait for Government advice.
There's quite a few articles out there that seem to show that the people actually did cause the Govt. to lockdown before they would have liked to.

As an aside;

 

[cheezemonkhai]

@Lee01

 

No I am not saying that. Try re-reading the post perhaps?

 

i was however saying that pricks that can’t socially distance should be gone after by the police.

 

Coughing at other people to get them out of your way because you’re running is way beyond unacceptable.

 

people refusing to give people space when they request it, also unacceptable.

Replying to that request as if you’re over reacting also unacceptable.

 

Stressing/filming people on sexual or racial stereotyping is also a rediculous state of affairs.
 

Certainly many are indeed taking it seriously, but it only takes one infected moron to cause thousands of cases within a short period of time.

 

It’s very much the I am ok jack, screw everyone else type of person that causes problems at all times. It’s just they’re literally life threatening now.

 

As an aside, that link site has no context and a number of comments go unanswered bar banality.

 

edit: the times has an article, which probably would have been a better link that the snippet used by the political (from it’s own name) twitter account.

Edited 19 April, 2020 by cheezemonkhai

[shyVRS245]

11 hours ago, gadgetman said:

Which is why testing is needed to more accurately show figures. But then it also suggests government painting a worse figure than reality to enforce stay at home. But that'd be better done with serious fines and no discount for early payments. 

 

Everything I've seen suggests actual figures sub 1%.

I guarantee the real number of cases is more like 250,000 as I know at least 3 people who've had it yet haven't been tested because enough kits weren't available.

[shyVRS245]

Just wondering again what connection Ice Cream eating in the UK during the 1800's has to do with Covid-19. More waffle presumably.

[essexalan]

Tests carried out on persons not displaying symptoms ate unreliable according to Sturgeon. Persons displaying symptoms are supposed to self isolate until they are really ill anyway and then they give you a number to call.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/fm-urged-to-ensure-patients-tested-for-covid-19-before-returning-to-care-homes/

 

If that is correct then a full on testing regime in the UK is kind of pointless because a leakage rate of 10 or even 20% of failed tests is not a lot of help in removing infected subjects from the general population. 

And yet testing in Germany and South Korea, just for two, has been a major weapon in their campaigns. So is it the type of tests being carried out in these countries, more competent staff or a lot more lab facilities giving a faster turnaround on the testing? Seems a waste of time pushing out 100,000 tests a day if you have 20,000 leakers.

 

 

[gadgetman]

6 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Well you know what... maybe if the public took it seriously.

We have a leader who wasn't taking things seriously. 

 

No real deterrent to stop people breaking laws 

45 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

I guarantee the real number of cases is more like 250,000 as I know at least 3 people who've had it yet haven't been tested because enough kits weren't available.

You're guessing again. 

 

Until you know someone who has it confirmed by a recognised test, please stop with the I've had I'd, know someone who's had it. 

 

It's insulting to anyone who HAS had it, and especially insulting to anyone who's lost someone from it. 

[shyVRS245]

28 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

We have a leader who wasn't taking things seriously. 

 

No real deterrent to stop people breaking laws 

You're guessing again. 

 

Until you know someone who has it confirmed by a recognised test, please stop with the I've had I'd, know someone who's had it. 

 

It's insulting to anyone who HAS had it, and especially insulting to anyone who's lost someone from it. 

Constantly calling me a liar is very insulting as you have never met me and didn't see how ill I was (my wife was a nurse for more than 10 years before retraining to become a Social Worker in 2014 so she probably is better qualified to tell whether I had flu, pneumonia or Covid-19) and if we compare the latest figures from the USA we see that there are 740,557 confirmed cases with 38,979 deaths which is a death rate of 5.26%. Do you honestly believe that UK residents are so unhealthy that we are currently at 13% of confirmed cases resulting in death. Only an idiot would believe the official figures. Using the same percentage as the USA would give an actual confirmed cases in the UK of more like 310,000.

[gadgetman]

2 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Constantly calling me a liar is very insulting as you have never met me and didn't see how ill I was (my wife was a nurse for more than 10 years before retraining to become a Social Worker in 2014 so she probably is better qualified to tell whether I had flu, pneumonia or Covid-19) and if we compare the latest figures from the USA we see that there are 740,557 confirmed cases with 38,979 deaths which is a death rate of 5.26%. Do you honestly believe that UK residents are so unhealthy that we are currently at 13% of confirmed cases resulting in death. Only an idiot would believe the official figures. Using the same percentage as the USA would give an actual confirmed cases in the UK of more like 310,000.

Without testing everyone is guessing. 

 

As I say, you had Pneumonia which would have meant an xray. Pneumonia and Covid look different on xrays according to the doctors and consultants on the news. 

 

So how was your Pneumonia diagnosed and by whom?

 

As you claim to have had it at a time when ALL suspected or confirmed cases were being tested by PHE. But you say you haven't been. That's pretty strange. 

 

You said you were given antibiotics, so PHE, SAGE or NHS would have contacted you by now for testing based on what we're told about antigen testing to prove it works on known cases.

 

People I know who were suspected to have had it prior to March and contacted 111 were given home tests. The numbers of suspected cases were less than 1000 around that time, a few hundred at most at the time you say you had it. 

 

With the greatest of respect, until you and everyone else who thinks they've had it had an official test then numbers of cases are meaningless. 

[Ootohere]

Maybe Scotland has enough PPE to be able to share with England this week until more supplies come in.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52338099

 

Iain Duncan Smith MP needs to calm down, he is always there with a straight face to spin a story, he is not so calm right now on Sky.

Nicely dressed from home as usual, like the ex soldier he is.

Lions led by donkeys. 

[@Lee]

How long now until Boris resigns? < a week or > a week? Inside two weeks? Gove to be installed?

 

[moley]

23 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

How long now until Boris resigns? < a week or > a week? Inside two weeks? Gove to be installed?

 

We all know you love our elected prime minister, but if Boris does resign isn't their election to replace the prime minister? Unless you know differently? 

[Ootohere]

The UK Prime Minister can not just be who can lie and mis-lead best without blinking.

 

Micheal Gove MP just stands and tells the story pre-prepared and if a hard question is asked he tries bluffing his way through the questioning.

 

The Scottish born MP that has a rather vague memory of actual facts about his child hood and college years is still a Rupert Murdoch employee and 

not fit to be a MP let alone in the cabinet.

Maybe that is what matters about Boris Johnson MP and his judgement.  He just wants a cabinet around him that can not challenge for his job.

[cheezemonkhai]

Sorry, but when I was in a very senior position I would regularly let those who know and needed to be there do meetings and just ask for a summary.

 

Yes I would feed back, but I had so many demands on my time I certainly didn’t go to each meeting.

 

It is normal and I wouldn’t have a problem with any Pm not being at all meeting as long as the health and Home Secretaries were.

[@Lee]

12 minutes ago, moley said:

We all know you love our elected prime minister, but if Boris does resign isn't their election to replace the prime minister? Unless you know differently? 

Obviously only a 'strong and stable' Government would get through three PMs and onto their fourth in four years  
Maybe 'chaos under Ed Milliband' would have been a better option? If only he knew how to eat a bacon butty lol
It seems to me this is more a battle of a couple of billionaire media magnates willy waving; The Telegraph and the Barclay Brothers batting for Boris and Murdoch and The Times cheering for Gove.  

[@Lee]

13 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Sorry, but when I was in a very senior position I would regularly let those who know and needed to be there do meetings and just ask for a summary.

 

Yes I would feed back, but I had so many demands on my time I certainly didn’t go to each meeting.

 

It is normal and I wouldn’t have a problem with any Pm not being at all meeting as long as the health and Home Secretaries were.

It wasn't just one though, was it? It was FIVE COBRA emergency meetings. And where was he? Feet up in Chevening, feet up in Chequers, working on his tan in Mustique?
EDIT: The signs were all there https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/letter-to-boris-johnsons-dad-from-eton-college-resurfaces-online-and-it-explains-a-lot/25/03/

 

[gadgetman]

38 minutes ago, Lee01 said:

How long now until Boris resigns? < a week or > a week? Inside two weeks? Gove to be installed?

 

Only one or 2 inaccuracies? 

 

That's quite a damming admission there 

[@Lee]

3 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

Only one or 2 inaccuracies? 

 

That's quite a damming admission there 

Aye.

[J.R.]

4 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

 if we compare the latest figures from the USA we see that there are 740,557 confirmed cases with 38,979 deaths which is a death rate of 5.26%. Do you honestly believe that UK residents are so unhealthy that we are currently at 13% of confirmed cases resulting in death.

 

Both of those figures are complete rubbish, you cannot divide the number of deaths into the number of confirmed cases to give a death rate, it has to be the number of deaths compared to the number of recoveries and the figure is actually much much higher. You have to use the figures of total deaths and total recovered and rather tellingly the UK does not compile or submit figures for the latter.

 

Currently the death rate from infection of Covid 19 in the USA is 36%

 

In France it is 35%

 

In Italy that is now over the worst and most cases have worked their way through to outcomes (dead or recovered) the figure is 35%

 

Those gentlemen are the sort of casualty figures that you should be looking at in the cold light of day.

 

 

[J.R.]

If you want to see an example of what can be achieved by taking the threat seriously, reacting rapidly (schools closed from beginning of year) and with a population that understood the danger and respected social distancing and the wearing of masks, sanitization etc then it has to be Hong Kong.

 

Given their closest neighbours and it being an international business destination and stop over what they have achieved is all the more remarkable.

 

Compare these figures to any EU country or the USA:

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china-hong-kong-sar/

[Ootohere]

Comparisons are a waste of time, and especially England, Wales and Northern Irelands until the deaths of those not in Hospital is sorted out.

The death of those that were never tested as having Coronavirus but having Coronavirus included on death certificates.

The UK's death certificate and what is happening with these and how doctors are checking deaths when the person was not in hospital is all over the place.

[shyVRS245]

Those that know have said 2,500 people died in care homes last week but without testing we have no idea whether these were down to natural causes or had Covid-19 complications.