Start Stop Error, ECP and Engine Light after not using a car for a bit

[EdHru]

1 hour ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

The limp mode is weird on the Fabia, it has pretty good power till about 3000 rpm then it tails off into nothingness past then but it's not rev limited like others (i deliberately put it in limp mode by disconnecting the wastegate connector).

 

It's possible that there's rust and/or carbon built up to the point where it's gotten really solid and isn't recoverable, in which case a new (second hand) turbo would probably be more time and cost effective than rebuilding the actuator and de-carboning the turbo etc.

 

For a last ditch effort to get it freed up, get some GT-85 up into the mechanism and the hole where it goes into the exhaust housing? (ive put 2 pictures below of where i mean) I'm not sure how much WD-40 would do there vs GT-85, but it might help free it up at least. GT-85 is a few quid at Halfords if you don't have any, and you can use it on just about anything.

It's not easy to reach as it's all down the back of the engine, but it is doable, it's underneath the heatshield at the back of the engine, don't do it while hot, you should be able to reach over behind the heat shield and feel where you need to spray the GT-85 (or whatever you decide to use).

 

To try get it moving, the shaft of the actuator should pull towards the left, and *should* return back closed under its own tension. It's not the easiest to move even when it is nice and free, since it's geared so the little servo/motor or whatever it is in the actuator mechanism is able to hold back however many psi of backpressure there is against the wastegate.

 

On a side note, the turbo pictured below is available - should anyone want a carbon free turbo with 65k miles on it, drop me a pm (from a EA211 1.2TSI).

 

Thanks for your promp respone, really apprecated. The mechanic did struggle at first to unstick that rod from the 1st photo, he managed ot at the end. Then it was being moved by the OBD module you could see it and hear it clicking back-forth. Yes, i had a look as well, like you said its well at the back. It must be well stuck, strage how this is 1st time how it happened (1st time 3 wks into lockdown, but i didnt used the car that much befre that anyway), and now again today (as i said car only did few short journes per week 5miles max). Well disapinting to be honest car is only 3 yrs and 4months (16k on the clock), should this happen at all? I noted on your previous posts that you have seen one turbo with low milage worse than one with higher milage. It apperars that mine is gone bit more clogged up mort this time than the last hence difficulty acheaving higher revs like last time with your "spirited driving" advice  . this is my 1st Skoda as well 😞 

[nihtila]

That's disappointing to hear the issue is back and worse 😞

 

Also went for a spirited drive last night again after clearing the fault. Unfortunately the light still comes back after these trials. So we'll see how it develops.. still works normally but of course the light on your dashboard doesn't exactly give confidence.

 

Quite disappointed as well.. This is actually my first car I bought a year ago although have had licence for 15+ years (so needed to learn to drive again, also as I come from a right-hand side driving country). I knew mileage would be low as we cannot commute by car, and quite frankly I don't want to depend on a car. But it's quite crap that you just cannot have a car for occasional use as it breaks down for not getting enough mileage, as I now keep reading more and more regarding different possible issues. Need to change a battery to a 3yr old car was a bit disappointing, but changing a turbo would be way more than "a bit" disappointing. But let's see. If it continues could still try to find a specialist and give the information I have and ask if they want to check other alternatives than changing the whole thing. I'm an engineer but in electronics and unfortunately cannot do a thing with cars.

[FabiaGonzales]

1 minute ago, EdHru said:

 

Thanks for your promp respone, really apprecated. The mechanic did struggle at first to unstick that rod from the 1st photo, he managed ot at the end. Then it was being moved by the OBD module you could see it and hear it clicking back-forth. Yes, i had a look as well, like you said its well at the back. It must be well stuck, strage how this is 1st time how it happened (1st time 3 wks into lockdown, but i didnt used the car that much befre that anyway), and now again today (as i said car only did few short journes per week 5miles max). Well disapinting to be honest car is only 3 yrs and 4months (16k on the clock), should this happen at all? I noted on your previous posts that you have seen one turbo with low milage worse than one with higher milage. It apperars that mine is gone bit more clogged up mort this time than the last hence difficulty acheaving higher revs like last time with your "spirited driving" advice  . this is my 1st Skoda as well 😞 

 

If the ECU has trouble moving the wastegate and sees overboost, itll go into limp mode to protect the engine. It doesn't outright rev limit to say 3k rpm like other cars, but it pulls ignition timing to the point where it's not making any power (and therefore no boost). It's still drivable, but not fast at all. It struggled getting to redline in 1st gear when i was going uphill it's that weak.

 

When the engine is cold it runs rich in order to heat the engine and catalytic converter up quickly (to reduce emissions), but this does have the downside of coking up the exhaust side of the turbo if the car is only ever used for short journeys. (Presumably what happened to that low mileage poor condition turbo i originally had).

 

If you have extended warranty, that kind of thing should be taken care of by that. If not, last ditch effort would be to try getting gt-85 in there and giving it a really good excercise by hand until it feels nice and free, then taking it out for a sprint. If that doesn't cure it, it'll be down to replacing the entire turbo (probably easiest & cheapest option, given these turbos are fairly cheap second hand, and a gasket set can be got for as little as £25), or taking it off and trying to clean it out (in which case, you'll need a new gasket set anyway, and at that point, you may aswell spend the little extra on another turbo and fully cure it once and for all).

[nihtila]

Thanks for all your input, we're learning..

 

So, for someone who doesn't know anything what he's doing is it ok to go there spraying that stuff and moving that rod by hand?  If I find the right place. Although not sure my fault is the same as the code is slightly different and it does run normally, at least for now.

 

The quote I got was £1230 (so a bit less than original guestimate of £1400) including turbo 'remanufactured unit', oil feed pipe, oil filter, oil, and work.

[FabiaGonzales]

1 minute ago, nihtila said:

Thanks for all your input, we're learning..

 

So, for someone who doesn't know anything what he's doing is it ok to go there spraying that stuff and moving that rod by hand?  If I find the right place. Although not sure my fault is the same as the code is slightly different and it does run normally, at least for now.

 

The quote I got was £1230 (so a bit less than original guestimate of £1400) including turbo 'remanufactured unit', oil feed pipe, oil filter, oil, and work.

 

It's fine to go there and move it by hand, it's a big lump of metal, there's nothing your hand can do to damage it, unless you're the hulk or something! The fragile parts (the turbine etc) are all hidden away inside the housings and are basically unreachable unless you pull the exhaust or intake off completely.

 

Just don't do it while hot! The exhaust side of turbos can easily reach north of 500c when driven spiritedly. I certainly wouldn't want to touch that!

 

2 minutes ago, nihtila said:

The quote I got was £1230

 

😶😶😶😶😶 wowzers!

 

I recently did a turbo upgrade (put a turbo from a 1.4tsi onto my 1.2tsi engine), the turbo cost me ~£125, a gasket set for ~£25, some tools and a few hours. There's no need for oil feed pipe, oil filter, or oil. Any competent mechanic should have it done in 2 hours tops.

The 1.2tsi turbos are cheaper (i've seen some around the £75-100 mark, though i do question their condition). They use the same gasket set though. I have a spare turbo (in great condition) lying around doing nothing other than stopping a tea towel blowing away in my room, if anyone wants it, drop me a pm.

[rum4mo]

On 08/07/2020 at 17:15, nihtila said:

 

Or is this number just referring to where the fault is, and code is P334B? In which case it is different.

 

I could be wrong here, but, P334B is the OBD code for this fault, 16434 is VW own code for this same code, one thing though, VW codes are more extensive and so more exact when it comes to what gets picked up when scanning the car, VCDS can decode or "translate" all VW specific codes in all controllers.

 

Out of general interest which code(s) has been found in HVAC?

[rum4mo]

49 minutes ago, nihtila said:

That's disappointing to hear the issue is back and worse 😞

 

Also went for a spirited drive last night again after clearing the fault. Unfortunately the light still comes back after these trials. So we'll see how it develops.. still works normally but of course the light on your dashboard doesn't exactly give confidence.

 

Quite disappointed as well.. This is actually my first car I bought a year ago although have had licence for 15+ years (so needed to learn to drive again, also as I come from a right-hand side driving country). I knew mileage would be low as we cannot commute by car, and quite frankly I don't want to depend on a car. But it's quite crap that you just cannot have a car for occasional use as it breaks down for not getting enough mileage, as I now keep reading more and more regarding different possible issues. Need to change a battery to a 3yr old car was a bit disappointing, but changing a turbo would be way more than "a bit" disappointing. But let's see. If it continues could still try to find a specialist and give the information I have and ask if they want to check other alternatives than changing the whole thing. I'm an engineer but in electronics and unfortunately cannot do a thing with cars.

 

Seeing as your location is Edinburgh, there are a few competent VW Group Independent Specialists, AVW being one and Autohaus being another.

[nihtila]

2 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

 

I could be wrong here, but, P334B is the OBD code for this fault, 16434 is VW own code for this same code, one thing though, VW codes are more extensive and so more exact when it comes to what gets picked up when scanning the car, VCDS can decode or "translate" all VW specific codes in all controllers.

 

Out of general interest which code(s) has been found in HVAC?

 

That's what I thought after browsing more that night. Interesting though that our VW code was the same but OBD code different..

 

HVAC was as follows, and had happened before any of these turbo codes.

 

590081 - Control Circuit for A/C Compressor 
          B10A9 11 [012] - Short to Ground
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
         Freeze Frame:
                Fault Status: 00000001
                Fault Priority: 2
                Fault Frequency: 1
                Reset counter: 57
                Mileage: 40323 km
                Date: 2020.06.25
                Time: 15:44:11
                Compressor shut-off requirement: Compressor activation: malfunction in activation path
                Compressor current: actual value: 1.275 mA
                Compressor current: specified value: 0.000 mA
                Voltage terminal 30: 13.3 V

Didn't do any Googling on that. Will see if it comes back.

 

[rum4mo]

I've had that in my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS, I might be wrong here, but I think that that was supposed to get "disabled/ignored" by a S/W update a few years back, I'm not sure if my wife's 2015 Polo ever got that update, but does not now log that fault, only, I've just remembered that the compressor has been disabled for "a while" due to low AC gas pressure, but that was resolved yesterday. 

I'd clear that fault as the AC will work all the time that that fault condition is not present, but it might get logged again - etc etc.  AC is not something we normally need up in Scotland!

[nihtila]

Yes I did clear that HVAC fault and another related to CAN gateway from April. At least they didn't come back after the first drive.

 

And thanks for the VW specialist info. That's useful as I don't really know such places here. I can try contacting them with the turbo fault info if it doesn't go away and ask what they think.

 

As you mentioned software update.. When Googling I remember seeing something related to a 1.2 turbo issue also in some older software version. Probably not a solution but could try to find something or does it ring a bell?

[rum4mo]

No, sorry that does not ring any bells, VW Group seem to be terrible with regards to helping out owners with S/W updates even although the actual S/W update is free, outside warranty you will normally get charged the labour time to find it and  load it into the car, a bit annoying when the updates are only to correct a programming error.

 

It seems that what happens is ,if you hand your car in and no fault codes have been logged but there is an obscure fault,  the tech will search the marque technical resource and if nothing is found then they say "not a problem" if then you can put enough pressure on the service team, they will , if they chose, log a technical request on the marque's global technical database - which should result in an answer within 48 working hours. I had to get this done on a late 2009 SEAT Ibiza in 2017 - I got a result and the S/W update was applied to the car, but it probably took me about 18 months to get there. It seems that maybe due to the volume of S/W updates etc being issued, "older" issues and all reference to them get archived very quickly, so a request like mine almost 8 years after that car was build was not an issue that any techs currently working could remember having to deal with - that is what happens when a company like VW Group rely on owners complaining and so reporting issues before any corrective action is applied, some cars being operated in a certain manner do not exhibit know problems, then someone else uses that same car and a know issue appears for the first time when the car is 5 years old - I was looking after my daughter's Ibiza bought new, and I used that car in a different way, ie only used it every 6 days and its battery was always flat, I'm just re-telling that tale to show how things can work out, that is all.

[EdHru]

@FabiaGonzales just a quick update on my issue. First of all big thank you for your input so far and the valuable advice, it's really appreciated. Car back from my local indy garage, the mechanic did manage to free it up once it was cooled down, and sprayed some lubricant exactly as you suggested. Then he was forcing the wastegate actuator to move via vcd module for some time. Reseted the code and took it out for a test drive, code never returned. His advice was also that it needs some spirited driving especially after I told him that I change the gears very quickly and keep my revs down. To be honest I do change them well before rev needle reaches 2k, just a habit that I got, which obviously needs to change. He also suggested that I should contact Škoda UK customer service and report this especially as the car only just over 3 yrs old with full Škoda dealer service history. Apparently he has heard that there's is a TPI been issued for 1.2tsi wastegate actuator. I have been driving today some distances with higher revs and all ok for now. Will this issue happen again? I know it's impossible question, and it's sods law that it's happened just after warranty expired in March. I never had any dealings with the Škoda UK customer service, would they assist in this instance? Best regards.

[nihtila]

Just a small update from my side. I checked the actuator arm and it feels completely stuck, I cannot move it by hand. Also it doesn't move when turning the engine on/off or throttling. So I will try lubricant if it helps. Given it feels completely stuck I don't have high hopes.. or even if it works, for how long time. Anyway, useful data to have and hopefully it means someone could just fix/change the actuator instead of the whole turbo.

[FabiaGonzales]

19 minutes ago, nihtila said:

Just a small update from my side. I checked the actuator arm and it feels completely stuck, I cannot move it by hand. Also it doesn't move when turning the engine on/off or throttling. So I will try lubricant if it helps. Given it feels completely stuck I don't have high hopes.. or even if it works, for how long time. Anyway, useful data to have and hopefully it means someone could just fix/change the actuator instead of the whole turbo.

It could be the actuator itself, or it could be that carbon deposits have seized up the wastegate flap where it goes through from inside the exhaust housing to the outside where it connects to the actuator.

 

Can't really tell which it is until you remove the actuator. The actuator is replaceable without taking the turbo off, but if it's the wastegate flap, then it's a new turbo job.

[Vickihumphreys]

We have exact same problem,66 plate car with 19k on it. Started putting the EPC light on after being parked up through lockdown, then the EML as well plus "Stop start system error" on info display. Bell crank on turbo seized solid and actuator clicking like its trying to move but can't. Should Skoda not be sorting this as its obviously a common problem? especially on low milers.

Will have a go with the WD40 when its cold enough to get the heat shield off but don't hold out much hope.

Is it a variable vane turbo on these like the diesels have?

[FabiaGonzales]

27 minutes ago, Vickihumphreys said:

We have exact same problem,66 plate car with 19k on it. Started putting the EPC light on after being parked up through lockdown, then the EML as well plus "Stop start system error" on info display. Bell crank on turbo seized solid and actuator clicking like its trying to move but can't. Should Skoda not be sorting this as its obviously a common problem? especially on low milers.

Will have a go with the WD40 when its cold enough to get the heat shield off but don't hold out much hope.

Is it a variable vane turbo on these like the diesels have?

It's just a bog standard turbo, there's no need (or way actually without taking off the coolant lines) to take the heat shield off to get at it, just have to reach around the back of the turbo.

[Vickihumphreys]

1 hour ago, FabiaGonzales said:

It's just a bog standard turbo, there's no need (or way actually without taking off the coolant lines) to take the heat shield off to get at it, just have to reach around the back of the turbo.

Got it free in the end, it was so tight I couldn't move it by hand so I kinked an old angle grinder spanner and tweaked it with that. It went with a bit of a "ping" as though it had been forced to far by the actuator and stuck there. Is this why they are fitting 2mm spacers on the earlier cars to hold it off a bit?

[FabiaGonzales]

5 hours ago, Vickihumphreys said:

Got it free in the end, it was so tight I couldn't move it by hand so I kinked an old angle grinder spanner and tweaked it with that. It went with a bit of a "ping" as though it had been forced to far by the actuator and stuck there. Is this why they are fitting 2mm spacers on the earlier cars to hold it off a bit?

The earlier EA111 1.2TSI had a different turbo setup, where slight differences in manufacturing meant it could open too far and get stuck, the design of our turbos (and actuators) means that if something actually gets stuck, it's because of carbon buildup, the wastegate flap can open way further than the normal range and still shut easily (i've had one of the turbos off the car myself, having done an upgrade to a 1.4 turbo). The way i drive my car, carbon buildup is no concern at all, it's as clean and free moving as a brand new one straight out the factory 😂

[bloodycat]

Since I am now doing a little more mileage again (about half  normal but less than 1/4 the actual travel time due to traffic). Finally got round to taking my car ( 2017 1.tsi colour edition) into my local skoda dealer after it also started exhibiting   similar problems when I was only doing 7 miles/fortnight round trip to the supermarket.  Slightly different error code P000AF. The car has only done 12k miles and had done less than 400 miles since last service/mot before fault appeared. If it weren't for the warning lights I would be unaware there was a problem as there's negligible apparent loss in performance or reduction in fuel economy even on the few longer runs I have done.

 

Their diagnosis - new turbo required cost £1842.50 given the feedback on here I queried the requirement for a new turbo but they are insistent they followed the standard diagnostics process and that is what the solution is. I am waiting for them to get a response back from skoda uk to see what goodwill they might offer given the low mileage and the fact that it is not that long out of standard warranty.

 

I'm not that hopeful they will come back to me with a satisfactory response - anyone have any recommendations of a suitable alternative garage in the Coventry area  to take it to for a second opinion / cheaper replacement if it really does need replacing?

 

 

[bloodycat]

Just had a call back from the dealer - Skoda UK are prepared to cover 65% of the cost.  Still rather a steep repair bill.

When I again mentioned the feedback on here and I wasn't convinced it needed a new new turbo they then claimed that because the actuator had seized in the turbo they couldn't just replace actuator.and it has to be replaced as a complete unit.

 

[nihtila]

Sounds very familiar to my issue earlier in the year, barely noticeable difference in driving. Never updated my case but the turbo was indeed replaced in the summer; no tricks mentioned here or elsewhere found after hours and days of Googling helped. Was around £1250 in a small garage in Edinburgh. Was rather ****ed off (and still am if I think about it), 65 plate and around 25k miles. But **** happens I guess, at least now I remember to do some spirited driving every now and then. Still not much miles coming though, especially given the situation in the country now.

 

Repair bills like that hurt but I'm a bit surprised Skoda are offering you even 65% so I'd just take it and take the hit. Of course you can try some tricks suggested here but it may be the case that it works for a while and then the same again as seen here, and then Skoda not offering anything anymore.

[bloodycat]

Update - Took the car back in today to be repaired - Although I suspect I could have got it repaired for less than the revised quote  it would probably have meant being without the car for several days which isn't really practical at this time of year.

When they called me to say it was ready for collection they said they had also been back onto Skoda UK who had agreed to cover the entire cost of parts so I only had to pay for labour - still not cheap at dealer prices but much more palatable and less than it I expect it would have cost taking it elsewhere to get the Turbo repaired.

[bloodycat]

Now that it is daylight I can see that the replacement unit is visibly different to the original unit (which looked like the one posted earlier in this thread.

Attempt to capture it without dropping my mobile phone,

<img src="https://bloodycat.co.uk/images/20201219_093053.jpg">
<img src="https://bloodycat.co.uk/images/20201219_093119.jpg">

 

[Brucemagoose511]

MkIII TSI.  I didn't have the stop/start error, but did get the EPC and engine warning light last week.  This was after a period of not taking the car out so much and driving carefully due to winter conditions. 

 

A very knowledgeable and trustworthy independent garage said it was likely the Turbo Actuator and they are getting a lot of these for various makes and models. Turned out to be the case and poor mechanic after burning their hands managed to free up the part and get things working fine again since then.  If it breaks sounds like it'll be around £250 parts and labour, which I can live with. 

 

Mechanic suggested driving the car hard from time to time to get the turbo going (presumably to stop it from seizing up again). Turbo seems to kick in at around 3000rpm in 2nd and 3rd gears, but does anyone have any more precise info on when the turbo kicks in? I don't really want to go revving the heck out of the machine every week or so. I'm hoping an occasional spurt on a straight B road during periods of reduced or gentler usage will be enough to keep the actuator in working order.  Cheers.  

[Ootohere]

I think with your 1.0 TSI your turbo operates every time you drive the car unless you are never taking it above 20 mph and just bimbling along.

?

Edited 27 December, 2021 by roottoot