Waterlogged passenger side - leaking bonnet release

[BigJakk]

Hello Folks,

 

Bought myself a 64 plate Octavia VRS MK3 two days ago, it has a panoramic roof. I bought the car from a very good friend who I have known for donkeys years through thick and thin. He looks after his cars and I am certain had no prior knowledge of what I have discovered tonight, when I've told him about it he was genuinely gutted.

 

The car has pretty much sat on my drive over the weekend, during which time it did of course lash it down with rain.

 

Tonight the missus and I decided to take the new car to visit my daughter who has been in intensive care In hospital the last few weeks (2020 can go away already).

 

On getting into the car there was a musty smell with SWMBO complaining that it was coming from her side of the car.

 

With the AC on and blowing fresh air the smell was fairly quickly dispelled, however when we returned to the car after visiting hours the smell was back. Checking under the mats the whole nearside floor was damp, particularly the rear.

 

Upon returning home I wet vacced a ton of water out from the nearside floor. The driver's side of the vehicle appeared dry.

 

Given the effective operation of the AC and the fact the service history shows the cabin filter was recently changed my first thought was a possible issue with the cars panoramic roof.

 

With darkness drawing in I opened the roof and poured water into the channel around the glass panels. I started at the rear and found the water drained away quickly and could be seen draining from the rear wheel arch area onto the ground.

 

I then poured towards the front of the car and the water seemed to take a while to drain out of the channel and I couldn't determine where it drained away to, as there was no evidence of any water fall on the ground at the front of the car.

 

I then checked the interior and found the driver's side to be dry, however when checking the passenger side there was a fair bit of water trickling out of from the bonnet release area.

 

I poked around a bit more and couldn't find any evidence of damp around the headliner. I also found that the passenger side carpet is dry around the upright section which goes up the back of the firewall, suggesting that the water is coming in fairly low down. I also culdnt find any moisture around the glovebox so I don't think it's a cabin filter/plenum chamber issue.

 

Unfortunately it then started to get a bit too dark outside to investigate any further.

 

I was hoping someone may be able to point me in the direction of a possible fix or even suggest where I should start to look first?

 

Thanks guys

[lway]

Not had this issue but I've seen a few threads similar to this, have a read here, it includes some diagrams of the drain tube locations.

 

 

[BigJakk]

So got up early this morning to tackle this. Having removed the FNS A pillar, the drain hose looked okay however there was a small amount of water on one of the rubber seals (see picture below).

 

I then went on to sacrifice the skin on my forearms to the mechanical gods, clearing the two front drains under the scuttle which were full of crud and dirt. They are now both clear and flowing freely.

 

A couple of goes with  a small coke bottle full of water and everything looked good, however as I returned to he car I found fresh water in the frontvpassenger footwell trickling down from where the headlining meets the top of the A pillar trim.

 

I'm now on tearing the headliner a part as I can only think now that there is a leak where the drain tube meets the roof.

 

When I find said leak, can anyone recommend what sort of product I should be using to seal?

 

Also, does anyone know where the drains exit at the rear as judging by the front the rears could do with clearing too.

 

Cheers guys

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

If it’s coming out of the bonnet release handle, then I would suggest water is making it there. 

 

Have you cleared out the drain lines themselves?

 

Also what about testing a bit of water to see if the leak is from the skuttle area rather that the roof?

[BigJakk]

It's definitely coming from the roof, having just poured a cup of water into the front nearside roof drain, with the nearside a pillar trim off water has just run down the headliner towards the a pillar and just given me a nice shower.

 

In regard to clearing the drain tubes, can anyone advise what to use, I don't want to poke wire down there as fear tearing the pipe and making my life even more miserable 😭

[silver388]

Nylon strimmer line is good for this, comes in different thickness.

[BigJakk]

Got some strimmer wire and have fed it through the drains - didnt come out too dirty, however when pouring water around the sunroof tray it is draining a lot quicker.

 

On the face of things, the leak appeared to have stopped - however as soon as you drive away water starts pouring out from the top of the A pillar again

 

I've reached a point where i can't really unfurl the headliner anymore because I can't get the sun visor removed.

 

i can just about see where the green drain tube meets the white plug. The water seems to be coming from somewhere in that rough vicinity as it is following a channel in the headliner down to the top of the A pillar where it is then spilling out. Unfortunately though there's nothing I can clearly pinpoint as the source.

 

It looks like the drain tube has been off in the past though as there's a mark someone has made on the drain and the plug and they aren't quite lined up any longer.

 

I fear this is going to end up being a bend over and go to a dealership job 😖

[BigJakk]

Further to the above, interestingly there is the water being retained in the area between the concertina webbing at the front of the sunroof - it doesn't seem to be draining off anywhere of its own accord and is just sitting there.

 

I've attached an image for reference, I would have thought this area

Should drain off somewhere too?

 

Thanks again guys

[BigJakk]

So, todays investigation of the nearside/passenger side drain tubes have got me so far

 

Having removed the A pillar trim, soaking the sunroof tray with the roof open, water was immediately piddling out from the corner of the headliner and also at the bonnet release handle in the footwell.

 

I've pulled through the full length of the drain with strimmer wire as suggested, I've also discovered that the drain tube at the bottom of the A pillar is extremely loosely connected to the tube/grommet leading through the firewall.

 

Having firmly reinserted the drain tube, the leak at the bonnet release seems to have gone. It doesn't look like there is any means of securing this connection with clips etc as the two tubes would just compress, it looks as if the connection has just warped and grown loose. At this stage I am considering sealing the join with silicone sealant.

 

I've attached some pics for reference.

 

Whatever I have done, the water is now no longer immediately pouring out from the headliner, however as soon as you drive the car it starts pouring out from the same location.

 

Unfortunately i can't get the sun visor off to roll the headliner further back, however following the water trail it seems to originate from the drain point on the roof try so  wondering if the connection has grown 'baggy' up there also.

 

At this stage the two things;

 

whether anyone has has any joy sealaing the drain tube joints and if so what sort of sealant would be best to use

 

How to remove the sun visor so I can get a better view into the headliner.

 

Thanks folks 👊

 

 

[Gti Jazz Blue]

It might be worth an hour subscription to erWin - you can print the documents to a PDF and refer back to them, it is the official online repair manual for your car: erWin it will document how to remove the headlining, there may even be a TPI document on water leaks from the sunroof.

[GreenMachine1.6]

You might want to check out a long similar thread on the Yeti forum. One discussion identified a split in a plastic join in the sunroof frame (my simplified explanation). Would not use silicone as it fails to stick to many plastics unless they are very clean which is difficult in your situation.

[BigJakk]

Thanks folks,

 

I've got the tech diagrams for the drain pipes and found a how to for removing the sun visor on a Golf R forum... Unfortunately it looks like a set of nifty and expensive pliers are needed to do so 🤨 (why can't things just be screwed on these days) so I've hit a stumbling block there.

 

I definitely think that join needs sealing as it is ridiculously loose fitting, would a polyurethane sealant like 'pu flex' be more suitable? I've used that to seal metal before but not on rubber/plastic.

 

Thanks again guys

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

I would suggest a cable tie to tighten up the joint as a first pass.

 

mainly as it is easily removable if it doesn’t solve the problem.

[BigJakk]

3 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I would suggest a cable tie to tighten up the joint as a first pass.

 

mainly as it is easily removable if it doesn’t solve the problem.

 

I think that's an excellent idea, it also gives the advantage that as its reversible i can still pop them off at this point for future cleaning..

 

I've wasted another morning really, however out of interest i stripped down the A pillar on the drivers side and found that the green drain tube on that side is similarly just pushed fit into the black sidewall grommet. It all seems a bit haphazard to me so as per the above suggestion i have nipped the join up a touch with a cable tie on each side. They would both need a good yank to come away now. I also took the opportunity to floss the drivers side drains with my improvised nylon drain snake and flushed through both sides with with lukewarm soapy water until both ran pretty clear. I've only managed to wet vac about 100-150ml of water out from the carpets this morning, so the carpet is obviously drying in the warm weather - I've also taken delivery of a water resistant roof cover for the inevitable monsoon that will no doubt arrive soon

 

When testing for leaks, the car has been pointed with the nose on a downward angle - however i notice that panoramic roof tray seems to have an outer where the drain holes are and an inner tray behind the concertina fabric noise canceler. I notice that this inner try also seems to fill with water but there doesn't seem to be anywhere for that water to then go and reach the drain, so it is just sitting there.

 

Unfortunately the big kick in the slats is that water is till persisting it down from the headliner on the passenger side whenever i test the drains. I really cant get any more access from the head liner so its off to the VW specialist around the corer in the morning however when booking it in i got the ominous 'we would usually just point you to a body shop for panoramic roof issues'.

 

Ive had the car four days and im already contemplating how to get rid of it 😩

 

As an aside, for anyone who should stumble across this and is suffering draining issues this excellent link pretty much gives everything you need to know about the drainage tubes and how they are routed:

 

http://www.seatia.com/secon-887.html

[GreenMachine1.6]

 Seems the Yeti had/has real problems. One of the many issues forum owners found was not with the the drain pipes and connections but a split or faulty join in the plastic surround for the sun roof. One of the posts from memory sounds very like yours, kept looking at the drain pipes, and could not understand why they still had a leak. They sealed it by using a special adhesive (used in boats I think) that filled the crack/joint by capillary action.  One Yeti owner removed the whole sunroof to fix it!  The above might be useful when discussing with the VW  specialist.

I am interested in this topic as I have a panoramic on my Octavia and want to be prepared😟

Edited 17 June, 2020 by GreenMachine1.6
Extra info

[GreenMachine1.6]

This may be of some useYeti Panoramic Roof Leak.pdf

 

[BigJakk]

More disheartening news.

 

My VW independent had a look and confirmed that there are no issues with the drains, water is coming in through the frame.

 

They're hesitant to go any further as their next step will be panoramic roof off and they admit this isn't a familiar issue to them. They suggested a call to Skoda to see if there are by recalls or repair/service kits for the issue. They've kindly offered to keep the car indoors overnight as it looks like it's going to lash it down.

 

Local Skoda dealership says no recalls or technical bulletins, they said they have loads of issues with Yeti roof's but haven't had any problems with Octavia's. All they could suggest was book it in with them for (another) diagnostic - wouldn't be drawn on likely cost of repair but said worst case I'm looking at a new roof.

 

It's safe to say I feel sick at the moment.

[cheezemonkhai]

Before starting on the above, you may wish to purchase a small roll of clear repair tape etc and cover the ingress areas shown in the PDF.

You can then test the roof to see if it leaks with these areas temporarily covered and conclude if it's leaking there or elsewhere.

 

Obviously it's far from a permanant solution, but if it does work, then you could show the dealer what is happening or try the solution using the sealant above is something worth a try before having to spend big on a new frame.

 

EDIT: Actually looking at the price direct (http://www.captaintolley.com/), you might as well just try with any tape you have and then buy some of that to dry if there is any sort of improvement from the tape.

 

Also I found this from the USA quite quickly:

 

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2019/vw-sunroof-leak-lawsuit-warranty-is-worthless.shtml

 

and this thread on a golf forum:

 

https://www.golfalltrack.org/threads/panoramic-sunroof-leaking.1136/

Edited 18 June, 2020 by cheezemonkhai

[BigJakk]

So, this morning went to pick the car up from my independent.

 

They explained that since I last spoke with them they had made some enquiries with their contacts and there IS in fact a TPI against my cars chassis number relating to panoramic roof leaks. Interesting considering Skoda said there was nothing on their system! 🤨

 

They showed me the print out which relates to the seal between the metal roof and the sunroof structure. There is a water ingress issue at the seal which can leads to corrosion which then becomes a bodyshop issue too

 

They advised there initial investigation shows no evidence of corrosion to the metal so it may just need the updated seal. They have ordered the parts and when they arrive on Monday the roof will be coming out.

 

They've agreed to keep the car indoors and out of the rain over the weekend, so hopefully the damp issue shouldn't get any worse.

 

Just thought the fact there is a TPI may be of interest to anyone else with problems

[PetrolDave]

2 minutes ago, BigJakk said:

They explained that since I last spoke with them they had made some enquiries with their contacts and there IS in fact a TPI against my cars chassis number relating to panoramic roof leaks. Interesting considering Skoda said there was nothing on their system! 🤨

That sounds not unusual for a Skoda dealer, sadly there seems to be too many poor/bad Skoda dealers which results even the good ones being treated with suspicion by owners.

[BigJakk]

40 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

That sounds not unusual for a Skoda dealer, sadly there seems to be too many poor/bad Skoda dealers which results even the good ones being treated with suspicion by owners.

 

Yes, despite having owned Skoda's for 10 years I've only ever had one other direct dealing with dealers. I wasn't exactly bowled over by them.

 

I think I'll keep this in the hands of my independent for as long as possible. Fingers crossed this will be the fix but I'm not holding my breath. 😔

[GreenMachine1.6]

BigJakk, do you know if the TPI shows the manufacturing date range of the cars affected?

 

[BigJakk]

Unfortunately not - i had a look at the printout they had of the TPI but im afriaid didn't make a note of any of the details. I will ask if i can have a copy when i go back to the garage to collect the car - 'for my records' and all that, i will report back

 

As an aside, my independent have been really good with this so far, they were quite happy to keep my car inside over the weekend to prevent any further water ingress and to try and get it aired out for me over the weekend too.

 

In contrast i contacted the next nearest local Skoda dealership to me, just out of interest to query whether they were aware of the issue - the first person i spoke to didn't even know what a TPI was, i was then told that they were unaware of any such issue on  the Octavia😦

[CookieMonster87]

@BigJakk glad there may be light at the end of the tunnel for you with this! This thread will come in handy for anyone else with this issue, thanks for keeping us updated.

 

Must have been an awkward situation for both you and the previous owner who must be feeing a bit guilty knowing you now have an issue not long after buying. These things happen though and by the sounds of it there was no malice involved.

 

Skoda should push this info out to their dealerships, I’m assuming this hasn’t been done in this case so I wouldn’t be quick to lay blame with the dealerships in question. It doesn’t look good when an independent has identified the TPI when 2 main dealerships couldn’t (or know what a TPI is for that matter). 

Having said that a TPI may only be available to the Technicians when doing diagnostics as opposed to the front of house service desk who relay the information back to the customer. This is just speculation though as I’m unaware of how the process works.

Edited 19 June, 2020 by CookieMonster87

[cheezemonkhai]

I have sadly heard there is no TPI from one dealer, then you go to another and they immediately find it and are fantastically helpful.

As always it’s the quality of the local dealer rather than the size of the glass palace that matters.