Excessive Tyre Wear 4x4.

[Pjay777]

Had new Tyres fitted 28/3/20, I almost got caught out, It's not easy to see the inside of the tyres on my Sportline, but the inside was down to the wire/canvass.

 

Took it to National Tyres (I think) they told my the alignment was out, so £500 for 4 tyres and the alignment later and it drove like a dream. 

 

Caught a glimpse of them this morning, that doesn't look right.

 

So 4 months and maybe 3000 miles later...

 

Any suggestions? When we're not on lock down I do about 15k miles a year. 

 

It's a 190 4x4 DSG Sportline hatch. 

 

 

[MarkyG82]

First suggestion would be tracking out. I'd get it checked by someone independent from the garage just to be sure. 

Next would be tyre pressure. Low pressure and excessive cornering speed (understeer) could cause this.

[IanJD]

There have been multiple reports of this happening with Superb, I got caught out about a year ago -- see my posts here...

 

 

[Colin170CR]

11 hours ago, Pjay777 said:

Had new Tyres fitted 28/3/20, I almost got caught out, It's not easy to see the inside of the tyres on my Sportline, but the inside was down to the wire/canvass.

 

Took it to National Tyres (I think) they told my the alignment was out, so £500 for 4 tyres and the alignment later and it drove like a dream. 

 

Caught a glimpse of them this morning, that doesn't look right.

 

So 4 months and maybe 3000 miles later...

 

Any suggestions? When we're not on lock down I do about 15k miles a year. 

 

It's a 190 4x4 DSG Sportline hatch. 

 

 

Are these the rears? 

 

If so I had the same at around 40k. Apparently this VAG chassis is known for uneven rear tyre wear - this from an ex-Audi mechanic who did one of my last services. 

If they are the fronts then I'd say the tracking was not done properly or the pressure are not correct.

[Bap33]

Wow 😮 ! Mine (also a TDI190 4x4) are ~25000 km on the clock and the P7 on the front axle are still fine.

Obviously there something wrong. Are these front or rear tyres?

There are 3 options:

- Very strong negative camber

- Very strong opening (wheels seen from above draw a "V")

- Both simultaneously.

Note: If you have the axle adjusted, rather change your tyres before the adjustment is done, otherwise, your new tyres will wear very fast too, since they will have a setting done for worn tyres...  

 

 

[MiniEggs]

I have a 4x4 Golf and if the tracking is not spot on it just lunches tires. 

[Pjay777]

Thanks for the info all.

 

It's the fronts, the rears I changed back in Feb appeared to be the original P7s.

 

I've made a complaint to 'Tyre Shopper' / National Tyres, I'm no Lewis Button so I shouldn't be going through tyres in 3000 miles, I can only assume they royally screwed up the tracking. I don't suppose I'll get any joy from them, but they're not exactly cheap tyres - with the tracking the fronts alone were £350. 

 

The FWD wouldn't have a different tracking set-up to the 4x4 would it? I can't imagine how they ballsed it up so much.  

[IanJD]

The pictures I posted were from my TSI220 which was FWD only (and tyres had been on since new), so I don't think this is specifically a 4x4 problem, it's an MQB chassis problem which is the platform used by all the VW/Audi/Skoda models mentioned... 😞

Edited 7 July, 2020 by IanJD

[nicknorman]

Just for reference I recently changed all 4 tyres in my 280tsi (4x4). They had done just over 20k miles and were very evenly worn down to about 2mm, so there is not a fundamental issue with the suspension geometry.

[Bap33]

11 hours ago, Pjay777 said:

[...]

The FWD wouldn't have a different tracking set-up to the 4x4 would it? I can't imagine how they ballsed it up so much.  

I'm not that sure.

Sorry I miss technical automotive vocabulary. I don't understand what "tracking" is.

AFAIK, depending on FWD or RWD, front axle settings are different and especially the angle between front wheels seen from above (what I call 'toe angle', sorry, not sure to have found the proper translation).

On a RWD, the front wheels trend to "toe out", thus the setting shall be a toe in angle (positive angle = front wheels shall be like this  ^ seen from above).

On FWD, the front wheels trend to "toe in", thus the setting shall be a toe out angle (negative angle = front wheels shall draw a "V" seen from above).

Since the 4x4 version is an AWD (not a full time 4WD), I don't know if the setting shall be different from a FWD...

 

 

If necessary, have a look to this official workshop document (recommended angles are given  from page 233 to 235.  

https://cardiagn.com/skoda-superb-iii-running-gear-axles-steering/

It seems there is no specifiic recommandation for AWD versions.🤔

[irc]

11 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Just for reference I recently changed all 4 tyres in my 280tsi (4x4). They had done just over 20k miles and were very evenly worn down to about 2mm, so there is not a fundamental issue with the suspension geometry.

 

Likewise. My 2018 1.4Tsi is at 21'000 miles. Rear are evenly worn with plenty tread left - around 5.5mm.  Fronts Down to mostly 2mm. F/N/S worn a bit more in the middle = right on the wear bars at 1.6mm.  From roundabouts?

 

A bit disappointed with only getting 21k out the fronts but they are Continental all seasons so maybe a bit softer compound?

 

A new pair of Goodyear Vector 4  Seasons ordered from Costco at £118 each fitted. (215/55/R17)

[bigmick9445]

11 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Just for reference I recently changed all 4 tyres in my 280tsi (4x4). They had done just over 20k miles and were very evenly worn down to about 2mm, so there is not a fundamental issue with the suspension geometry.

Agreed, nothing fundamentally wrong.
 

190 4x4 L&K Estate. I’ve just changed out all 4 of mine at 29.5k miles. Fronts were @2mm, rears @4.5mm. All worn evenly.
 

Now running Michelin CrossClimate Plus all around - so far so good

[Esseesse200]

That guide is ace but I don’t imagine many wheel alignment places will move the subframe if camber is out on one side however it’s good to know there is some adjustment.. 

it does look like tracking or camber is out massively on yours... remember a standard laser tracker will not check for geometry. You need a proper 4 wheel alignment set up like a hunter or similar that uses cameras to measure every angle and give advice to the technician what to adjust and how.. 

[Colin170CR]

After 25k miles in my time with the car (total now around 45k) my MY2016 280 L&K estate is going in for a 4 wheel alignment check on Monday next. The last set of rears were down to the canvas on the inside shoulder which was not visible from the side of the car. Only when you get under the car or put it up on a ramp was it possible to see how bad the wear was. Outside shoulder & tread was fine with at least 4mm showing. The wear was so bad on the inside shoulder on both rear tyres that one had a slow puncture. The tyre pressure monitoring system is what alerted me to the problem. The car is driven with only one or two people in it for 99% of the time & not much in the boot. I suspect the rear camber is well out of wack. Fronts are wearing OK. 

[IanJD]

19 hours ago, Colin170CR said:

After 25k miles in my time with the car (total now around 45k) my MY2016 280 L&K estate is going in for a 4 wheel alignment check on Monday next. The last set of rears were down to the canvas on the inside shoulder which was not visible from the side of the car. Only when you get under the car or put it up on a ramp was it possible to see how bad the wear was. Outside shoulder & tread was fine with at least 4mm showing. The wear was so bad on the inside shoulder on both rear tyres that one had a slow puncture. The tyre pressure monitoring system is what alerted me to the problem. The car is driven with only one or two people in it for 99% of the time & not much in the boot. I suspect the rear camber is well out of wack. Fronts are wearing OK. 

That's exactly what happened to mine -- plenty of tread on the outer visible bits (the part you check), inner shoulders worn through to the metal until one tyre punctured. Which was how I found out, came out one morning to find a flat.. 😞

 

Skoda tried saying that I must have hit a kerb, I pointed out that both sides had done exactly the same thing. Luckily car was leased with full maintenance and tyres so they agreed to replace them, then tried to say I should pay for a full tracking check. I told them it was their car and their problem since it had obviously been there since new, leasing was via Skoda/VWFS so they eventually agreed to pay. If it's your own car, good luck trying to persuade Skoda to cough up 😉

[J.R.]

On 08/07/2020 at 00:08, Bap33 said:

 

Sorry I miss technical automotive vocabulary. I don't understand what "tracking" is.

 

Angle de ripage.

[IJWS15]

On 07/07/2020 at 23:08, Bap33 said:

I'm not that sure.

Sorry I miss technical automotive vocabulary. I don't understand what "tracking" is.

AFAIK, depending on FWD or RWD, front axle settings are different and especially the angle between front wheels seen from above (what I call 'toe angle', sorry, not sure to have found the proper translation).

On a RWD, the front wheels trend to "toe out", thus the setting shall be a toe in angle (positive angle = front wheels shall be like this  ^ seen from above).

On FWD, the front wheels trend to "toe in", thus the setting shall be a toe out angle (negative angle = front wheels shall draw a "V" seen from above).

Since the 4x4 version is an AWD (not a full time 4WD), I don't know if the setting shall be different from a FWD...

 

 

All the rear wheel drive cars I have had were supposed to be slightly toe in, never toe out.