Looking to improve grip & handling of 2.0 TSI 220 PS

[theVrsMan]

Hello everybody,

 

I am new here. I made a brief search, but if I missed very important content about this subject, please forgive me and let me know.

 

My problem is: I recently had my 2015 MK3 2.0 TSI 220 PS vRS remapped. When I did so, already existing handling, grip and even straight line traction problems worsened. So, I am looking for ways to improve those. I will post my considerations and ask for your comments and recommendations.

 

Tires: I had Pilot Sport 4S 235/35R19 tires, but worn out quite a bit, so I think now it's time for replacement. From the very beginning, they were a bit of disappointment for me. The problem is: They ask very very high quality tarmac. If they find this very very high quality tarmac, they are simply incredible, state - of - art tires. But, when the tarmac is not so high quality (vast majority of the cases for my country), their performance is rapidly degraded. What I need is a set of performance tires which can also do well on not very high quality tarmac. Having said that, I feel that 19'' rims are not the best option for this car. I run 17'' rims with winter tires and the result is quite better, much less tramlining and even better grip. So, another option will be switching to 18'' rims

 

Suspension tuning: Huge variety of options, which can exhaust the newcomer easily. I am also for the comfort of this car, so, I guess, if I do not wish to lose this, I have to go with very expensive kits. I have 3 options in my mind: Bilstein B16's (excessively expensive and not so sure that they worth the money), H&R or Eibach lowering springs (I wonder that this option will deteriorate the ride quality noticably) and Köni Special Active dampers coupled with H&R or Eibach lowering springs (I will be glad to hear if there is anyone who tried this combination). Also, I will greatly appreciate any alternative recommendations with emphasis on value for money.

 

Chassis bracing: OK, I am not a native English speaker and there are some technical terms here, the English of which I don't know. But, when I push the car hard in corners, I feel that the chassis itself needs some tuning because it flexes too much, compared to, say, a 308 GTI or a supermini segment hot hatch like Polo 6R GTI.  I am thinking of front and rear sway bar,strut braces, or whatever falls in this category that I don't know their names. I will greatly appreciate recommendations of brands and products for this category.

 

Torque - biasing differential: This would be Quaife, Wavetrac or Mfactory. I will appreciate recommendations.

 

So, as you see, there are 4 categories and making mods in all of them at once will be beyond my budget. So, what would your order of priority be among those? Thank you very much in advance.

[Alex-W]

Also, don't forget upgraded ARBs.

I believe the ones from the golf clubsport are the best ones to straight swap.

 

Don't forget that if you suffer from bad road surfaces harder suspension will likely suffer too.  Not just in rude quality but also in skipping on the bumps.

I previously lowered a car with Koni adjustable dampers and lowering springs.  Awesome handling on good roads, with hardly any lean, but on a bad condition country road I'd feel the wheels leave the tarmac as it skipped over bumps. So, ironically, the places where I wanted to use the handing the most, I couldn't.

[theVrsMan]

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Also, don't forget upgraded ARBs.

I believe the ones from the golf clubsport are the best ones to straight swap.

 

Don't forget that if you suffer from bad road surfaces harder suspension will likely suffer too.  Not just in rude quality but also in skipping on the bumps.

I previously lowered a car with Koni adjustable dampers and lowering springs.  Awesome handling on good roads, with hardly any lean, but on a bad condition country road I'd feel the wheels leave the tarmac as it skipped over bumps. So, ironically, the places where I wanted to use the handing the most, I couldn't.

 

Thank you for your reply. Let me clarify some points. Since I don't have much experience on forum posting about cars in English, I sometimes explain things wrong. When I say low quality tarmac, I don't mean the surface is full of bumps, potholes or ondullations. We do have a lot of such roads but I tend not to go fast in such roads to protect the car. I mean some shiny surface with a low grip. PS4S virtually HATES such shiny surfaces. I believe there must be some other tires that behave somewhat better then PS4S on such shiny surfaces. But I don't know which are they Also, as I said, I consider switching to 18'' rims.

 

For the other advice, that's very good one. Where can I purchase them? Thank you very much. And I am looking forward to hearing other comments from you and other users. 

[TimmyQ]

For what it's worth, I also have a 220 TSI vRS on:

• Michelin PS4, 225/40/18
• Bilstein B12 with the sportline springs
• Superpro lower control arms
• Superpro front & rear sway bars & endlinks

Stock ecu, open diff (well there's also the stock XDS). 

 

I find the handling to be great. I can drive through twisties and keep up with a friend's non-stock 86 quite well. I find that even though it is obviously stiffer than the stock ride, it doesn't skip over bumps etc too much more. There's really no way to change your suspension and keep the stock comfort in my opinion, despite what people say. However, I find this setup comfortable enough, the roads I drive on everyday can get pretty bumpy in parts. Have never had wife or passengers complain.

 

My limitation with this setup is my driving ability, then the tyres and probably the open diff. However, I can't really be bothered buying more expensive tyres; and while I thought about an LSD for a long time, I think for street driving, I don't need an LSD since the other mods have made up for some of the lack of traction. I honestly doubt there's much to gain from changing from PS4S's unless you are driving in crappy weather a lot - maybe downsizing to 18" might help a little. Mind you, even at stock power I have no problem spinning the PS4s, so part of it is just learning to control your foot... 😆

 

I think the question, is what scenario are you looking at? Street driving? Or track? 

 

Order I'd say:

1. Tyres
2. Sway bars
3. See if happy
4. If not - coilovers or springs/shocks

 

[Ecomatt]

You are comparing the Octavia to two very small cars with wheels at each corner and less weight.

I have the diesel VRS and it is somewhat more nose heavy than the TSi version. To date I have no issue with the handling on the road as standard. Yes you get a little lean when cornering but that helps generate grip. You can spend thousands trying to improve the handling and only get minimal improvement. 

I would just stick with some lowering springs and uprate the ARB to clubsport ones. That will see an improvement but save you money aswell. 

Also I would check the tracking on the car as that can affect the handling.

[encephalopathy]

1 hour ago, TimmyQ said:

For what it's worth, I also have a 220 TSI vRS on:

• Michelin PS4, 225/40/18
• Bilstein B12 with the sportline springs
• Superpro lower control arms
• Superpro front & rear sway bars & endlinks

Stock ecu, open diff (well there's also the stock XDS). 

 

I find the handling to be great. I can drive through twisties and keep up with a friend's non-stock 86 quite well. I find that even though it is obviously stiffer than the stock ride, it doesn't skip over bumps etc too much more. There's really no way to change your suspension and keep the stock comfort in my opinion, despite what people say. However, I find this setup comfortable enough, the roads I drive on everyday can get pretty bumpy in parts. Have never had wife or passengers complain.

 

My limitation with this setup is my driving ability, then the tyres and probably the open diff. However, I can't really be bothered buying more expensive tyres; and while I thought about an LSD for a long time, I think for street driving, I don't need an LSD since the other mods have made up for some of the lack of traction. I honestly doubt there's much to gain from changing from PS4S's unless you are driving in crappy weather a lot - maybe downsizing to 18" might help a little. Mind you, even at stock power I have no problem spinning the PS4s, so part of it is just learning to control your foot... 😆

 

I think the question, is what scenario are you looking at? Street driving? Or track? 

 

Order I'd say:

1. Tyres
2. Sway bars
3. See if happy
4. If not - coilovers or springs/shocks

 

very similar to my setup. only other things to consider are front strut brace (makes it more solid feeling cornering on bumpy surface, but it is subtle) and dogbone mount - sorted wheelhop at the expense of slightly more noise vibration and harshness, mainly at startup.

[DC04R]

Unlike a lot of VAG owners (it seems) I've gone for handling mods first as my priority.

 

H&R springs were first up (did fancy coilovers but as you say if you go coilovers you might as well go the full hog and get some fully adjustable - KW or B16, etc. B14 are only height)

 

Whiteline rear arb was a brilliant mod (as it always is on my cars), greatly reduced understeer (clubsport is a cheaper option but is not adjustable and slightly thinner - whiteline was an extra 10% cost or so for me)

 

Powerflex dog bone insert, really firms up the car in shifting and acceleration

 

Surprisingly a front upper strut brace from Strut brace UK/Gorny sport in Poland was a really really big improvement for the money

 

And of course I put proper tyres on it (and wheels) - Autec Wizard lightweight wheels with 235 35 19 Goodyear eagle supersports. Has to be said that it handled better slightly when I had the speedline turini 18s, but I had assymetric 5 tyres on there and they weren't as good as the Supersports.

 

I think they really cover the best handling upgrades without spending massive money. 

 

When I need to replace the bushes I'll be going powerflex (purple only) too.

 

Don't forget to get a proper alignment done too, makes all the difference - however the fronts aren't very adjustable with standard shocks, on these.

 

When I have loads of money spare (so never, ha) I do want to get an LSD (proper mechanical LSD like quaife or wavetrac) thrown in. Will do that when the clutch needs doing.

 

 

Edited 16 July, 2020 by DC04R

[theVrsMan]

Thank you very much for your efforts and the very valuable information you have given to me, guys. It would take me some studying first, to decide. The common opinion seems to be:

 

1) Tires (Because of the low quality asphalt the car experiences, I will most probably downsize to 18'')

2) Chassis tuning

3) Suspension

4) LSD (maybe years later)

 

I still welcome and greatly appreciate alternative opinions.

[theVrsMan]

By the way, where can I purchase Genuine GTI Clubsport ARB's, can you help me with the source? Thank you once again.  

[Alex-W]

May be worth double checking, but I think this is the one

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/genuine-21-7mm-x-3-6mm-vw-mk7-golf-clubsport-s-rear-anti-roll-bar-upgrade.html

[theVrsMan]

On 17/07/2020 at 21:40, Alex-W said:

May be worth double checking, but I think this is the one

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/genuine-21-7mm-x-3-6mm-vw-mk7-golf-clubsport-s-rear-anti-roll-bar-upgrade.html

 

Wow, thank you for that. This website itself appears to be a treasure! 

[encephalopathy]

 

here are the codes for the kit i bought for my petrol vrs estate - front/rear anti-roll bars and the shocks/springs. you should consider replacing ARB droplinks as well as you now corner faster and mine lasted ~a month before the front ones failed (they were on the car 3 years/30k miles)

 

//sorry not sure how to edit the photo descriptions, but the photos themselves are correct!

 

Edited 20 July, 2020 by encephalopathy

[theVrsMan]

On 20/07/2020 at 19:32, encephalopathy said:

 

here are the codes for the kit i bought for my petrol vrs estate - front/rear anti-roll bars and the shocks/springs. you should consider replacing ARB droplinks as well as you now corner faster and mine lasted ~a month before the front ones failed (they were on the car 3 years/30k miles)

 

//sorry not sure how to edit the photo descriptions, but the photos themselves are correct!

 

Hello, 

 

Thank you for your interest but when I click on the picture links, I get an error message, such as "you don't have the permission to access this page". So I could not get the codes. 

[theVrsMan]

On 16/07/2020 at 18:42, DC04R said:

Unlike a lot of VAG owners (it seems) I've gone for handling mods first as my priority.

 

H&R springs were first up (did fancy coilovers but as you say if you go coilovers you might as well go the full hog and get some fully adjustable - KW or B16, etc. B14 are only height)

 

Whiteline rear arb was a brilliant mod (as it always is on my cars), greatly reduced understeer (clubsport is a cheaper option but is not adjustable and slightly thinner - whiteline was an extra 10% cost or so for me)

 

Powerflex dog bone insert, really firms up the car in shifting and acceleration

 

Surprisingly a front upper strut brace from Strut brace UK/Gorny sport in Poland was a really really big improvement for the money

 

And of course I put proper tyres on it (and wheels) - Autec Wizard lightweight wheels with 235 35 19 Goodyear eagle supersports. Has to be said that it handled better slightly when I had the speedline turini 18s, but I had assymetric 5 tyres on there and they weren't as good as the Supersports.

 

I think they really cover the best handling upgrades without spending massive money. 

 

When I need to replace the bushes I'll be going powerflex (purple only) too.

 

Don't forget to get a proper alignment done too, makes all the difference - however the fronts aren't very adjustable with standard shocks, on these.

 

When I have loads of money spare (so never, ha) I do want to get an LSD (proper mechanical LSD like quaife or wavetrac) thrown in. Will do that when the clutch needs doing.

 

 

 

Are these the Whiteline bars for this car? https://ukwhitelineperformance.com/collections/all/skoda-octavia-mk3--typ-5e--11-2012-on

 

Also, can you provide a link for those strut braces? I have a feeling that strut braces can also help in straight line acceleration in 1st and 2nd, by counteracting the weight shift towards the rear. I may be mistaken, of course. Thank you very much for your past and future help.

[DC04R]

9 minutes ago, theVrsMan said:

 

Are these the Whiteline bars for this car? https://ukwhitelineperformance.com/collections/all/skoda-octavia-mk3--typ-5e--11-2012-on

 

Also, can you provide a link for those strut braces? I have a feeling that strut braces can also help in straight line acceleration in 1st and 2nd, by counteracting the weight shift towards the rear. I may be mistaken, of course. Thank you very much for your past and future help.

 

 

yes it's this one, sometimes whiteline do 15% off promotions so keep an eye on the page

 

https://ukwhitelineperformance.com/collections/all/products/bwr24z-anti-roll-bar

 

Strut brace I got from a facebook page called strut brace UK. Or to order direct to Turkey, try Gorny sport website/facebook - as he makes them.

[encephalopathy]

Sorry about the images not working - hopefully they display now ok. The codes are what i fitted to my combi/estate pertrol vrs. hope this helps!

[Carlston]

On 15/07/2020 at 17:30, theVrsMan said:

Tires: I had Pilot Sport 4S 235/35R19 tires, but worn out quite a bit, so I think now it's time for replacement. From the very beginning, they were a bit of disappointment for me. The problem is: They ask very very high quality tarmac. If they find this very very high quality tarmac, they are simply incredible, state - of - art tires. But, when the tarmac is not so high quality (vast majority of the cases for my country), their performance is rapidly degraded. What I need is a set of performance tires which can also do well on not very high quality tarmac. Having said that, I feel that 19'' rims are not the best option for this car. I run 17'' rims with winter tires and the result is quite better, much less tramlining and even better grip. So, another option will be switching to 18'' rims

 

Maybe try Michelin CrossClimate or Vredestein Quatrac Pro in size 225/40R18. These are all-season tyres with the 3PMSF symbol, so should help with grip when the tarmac is in poor condition. You may be able to use the 18" steel rims from the new VW ID.3 electric car. The specification appears to be 7.5Jx18 ET50 5/112 57.1 but I don't have this confirmed.

Edited 29 July, 2020 by Carlston

[theVrsMan]

On 29/07/2020 at 04:39, Carlston said:

 

Maybe try Michelin CrossClimate or Vredestein Quatrac Pro in size 225/40R18. These are all-season tyres with the 3PMSF symbol, so should help with grip when the tarmac is in poor condition. You may be able to use the 18" steel rims from the new VW ID.3 electric car. The specification appears to be 7.5Jx18 ET50 5/112 57.1 but I don't have this confirmed.

 

Winter conditions are somewhat hard here and I have a separate set of winter tires. So, 4 season tires won't do good for me. Thank you.

[theVrsMan]

On 27/07/2020 at 14:05, encephalopathy said:

Sorry about the images not working - hopefully they display now ok. The codes are what i fitted to my combi/estate pertrol vrs. hope this helps!

 

 

Thank you for the advice. By the way, noticing that coilovers would make the ride too hard, I started to consider a setup of H&R lowering springs + Köni FSD (Now being advertised a Special Active). But, in many shopping sites, Octavia vRS 220 was not among the vehicles for which the Special Active damper is offered. Is that damper unavailable for our car or I simply could not look at the right site? Thank you very much again.

[theVrsMan]

I need to get the topic up, hopely to get an answer to my open question: Did anybody use Köni Special Active dampers in his / her Octavia vRs? But, in many shopping sites, Octavia vRS 220 is not among the vehicles for which the Special Active damper is offered (it is offered bor non - vRS models but not vRs). Is that damper unavailable for our car or I simply could not look at the right site? 

[BeVe]

I recently changed my suspension to Bilstein B16 and I loved it! Body roll reduced significantly and ride comfort wasn't affected much. 

 

I also changed the rear ARB out. My stock ARB is 20mm and Hardrace Rear ARB is 25.4mm. Loving how it performs in the corners now! 

 

[Kokoman]

On 31/08/2020 at 20:24, BeVe said:

I recently changed my suspension to Bilstein B16 and I loved it! Body roll reduced significantly and ride comfort wasn't affected much. 

 

I also changed the rear ARB out. My stock ARB is 20mm and Hardrace Rear ARB is 25.4mm. Loving how it performs in the corners now! 

 

Hi Beve, I've got similar coilovers, they're ST XTA's which are like the B16 adjustable for damping.  I can relatively easily adjust damping on the front but how'd you adjust the rears?  I heard they can be quite a pain involving the removal of the rear tyre to get access?  Can someone post pics where they've been able to adjust damping on their rear coilovers?  And how to access the knob?

[Hoggyf]

buy my 4x4 Octavia VRS lol no problem with lack of grip in that but its a diesel 

[john_20v]

my setup:

 

mich cup2 tyres on lightwight racingline 19s. But are a sod when cold. I find the sport 4 s good as allrounder and even uniroyal rainsport pretty good tbh.

H&R springs, actually better ride than stock. (soon to get hr coilovers)

audi a3 alloy subframe, lighter and stronger

fully pollybushed superpro, better quality than others I find

Front added caster

all new oem topmounts bushes bearings etc

front strut brace ebay jobbie

H&R bluelight roll bars. ment for 4x4 so had to adapt my exhaust. fitted all new oem drop links at the same time. blue light btw was sold to the emergency services, I was lucky to find a new set really cheap.

034 dog bone insert.

 

oh and my car is 405bhp

diff next

 

 

 

Edited 25 November, 2020 by john_20v

[theVrsMan]

A long time has passed with no action from me, apart from switching to 18'' Oz Racing rims and 225/40R18 ContiSportContact 5's. This was suprisingly a very radical improvement over the OEM 19'' rims and Pilot Sport 4S's. Still, there is need for some more. 

 

Now I am considering Eibach B12 Pro kit: Eibach Pro springs and Bilstein dampers, as seen in here: https://eibachshop.com/index.php?p2986,eibach-b12-pro-kit-suspension-kit-seat-leon-st-skoda-octavia-iii-octavia-iii-combi-vw-golf-golf-vii Since the car is lowered 20 mm from the factory, the resulting lowering will be 20 mm for the front and 15 mm for the rear. 

 

However, I fear that they may be too firm to drive around the town now.  Any opinions?