Hi

As the title says,

I will be looking to upgrade the firstly front brakes and after rear drum to disc brake upgrade on my TDI. 

Can you share your suggestions? Please. 

Thanks

 

[img]https://i.ibb.co/M5C9V1w/DF60VGE.jpg[/img]

Yes, don't bother changing the rear drums to discs.

Before you waste a vast amount of money firstly go down the road of upgrading the front discs and pads, clean and re-grease the slide pins and check caliper piston covers for damage/rust etc, change the rear wheel cylinders and swop the rear brake shoes for bonded bosch shoes. To change calipers etc you will need to change hubs, carriers, discs, pads brake  hoses etc, and on the  rear new  brake hubs  carriers and the calipers plus handbrake cables and hoses  and ABS sensors will be needed a lot of money needed here to do this mod even if  using  used parts not worth the extra bit of braking you will gain plus all the hassle of not trusting the rear caliper handbrake issues compared to rear drum brake

Front disks - you can but is it worth it with with your 105bhp? lots of products with a google search. Change to vented disks and some EBCs green stuff if you want to. Or some braided lines.

 

Rear Drums - Some will say, it's really easy. But of course they have different skill levels, time in their hands, space to do it confortably (or some will show off how they can do an engine swap in  a layby) experience and an Audi A1 rear torsion beam complete with hubs and parafenelia laying in their back garden.

 

Unless you have a 2.0 swaped with serious power, I say, don't bother. Pace.

On 18/01/2021 at 03:32, E2TK said:

Front brake upgrade on MK2 Fabia 1.6 TDI

I will be looking to upgrade the firstly front brakes and after rear drum to disc brake upgrade on my TDI. 

Can you share your suggestions?

 

The standard 256mm ventilated front discs work well. The rear drum brakes don't do much work because most of the braking is done by the front brakes as the weight of the car moves to the front under braking.

 

 By moving to 288mm front discs you will no longer be able to use 14" wheels such as standard 185/60R14 or non-standard 175/65R14, 175/70R14, 185/65R14. These are generally 

cheap tyre sizes and having plenty of sidewall are comfortable tyre sizes. If you move up to 195/55R15 the ride will be quite hard, although the non-standard 185/60R15 isn't too bad.

 

It's a bad idea to keep braking because that just wastes lots of fuel. Allow plenty of space between you and the car in front, look well ahead and come off the gas early to avoid harsh braking.

 

If your current brake discs are past their best, simply change them for new ones together with new pads. And while you're at it check your rear drums and brake shoes and change if worn. However, the fronts tend to wear out quicker because they are doing more work. Rears tend to last for ages unless you carry a lot of weight in the back, such as a working van.

 

Edited 19 January, 20215 yr by Carlston

Thank you for all answers I want to upgrade the firstly front brakes because after I want to upgrade my ecu software and turbo and some parts. My car front brake discs I think 288mm and also I have 16 wheels.  My questions if I buy 312 disc pads and carriers enough or I must buy with calipers? And last question 312mm disc fit 16 wheels?

6 hours ago, Bertie90 said:

Front disks - you can but is it worth it with with your 105bhp? lots of products with a google search. Change to vented disks and some EBCs green stuff if you want to. Or some braided lines.

 

Rear Drums - Some will say, it's really easy. But of course they have different skill levels, time in their hands, space to do it confortably (or some will show off how they can do an engine swap in  a layby) experience and an Audi A1 rear torsion beam complete with hubs and parafenelia laying in their back garden.

 

Unless you have a 2.0 swaped with serious power, I say, don't bother. Pace.

im still on 288s with a 2 litre 
 

 

On 18/01/2021 at 10:58, Murdockman said:

B To change calipers etc you will need to change hubs, carriers, discs, pads brake  hoses etc, and on the  rear new  brake hubs  carriers and the calipers plus handbrake cables and hoses  and ABS sensors 

Rubbish. 

7 hours ago, E2TK said:

Thank you for all answers I want to upgrade the firstly front brakes because after I want to upgrade my ecu software and turbo and some parts. My car front brake discs I think 288mm and also I have 16 wheels.  My questions if I buy 312 disc pads and carriers enough or I must buy with calipers? And last question 312mm disc fit 16 wheels?

 

What OEM numbers do your front brake calipers have (with 288mm front brake discs)? Are you on the LUCAS system or the TEVES system?

 

If you are on the LUCAS system, you will need new calipers and carriers.

 

If you are on the TEVES system, you just need new carriers.

 

With the LUCAS system, the carriers are handed, ie. the left carrier is different from the right carrier.

 

With the TEVES system, the carriers are not handed, ie. the left carrier is the same as the right carrier.

 

front brake disc (vented) LUCAS 288X25MM

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/FAB/year/2008/drive_standart/453/hg_ug/615/subcategory/615026/part_id/0/lang/e

 

front brake disc (vented) TEVES 288X25MM

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/OCT/year/2001/drive_standart/252/hg_ug/615/subcategory/615025/part_id/2550123/lang/e

 

front brake disc (vented) TEVES 312X25MM

http://www.oemepc.com/audi/part_single/catalog/au/markt/RDW/modell/ATT/year/2003/drive_standart/278/hg_ug/615/subcategory/615025/part_id/0/lang/e

 

OEM numbers 8L0615125 8N0615125 4B0615125A are also compatible with OEM number 1J0615125A. These carriers have been fitted to many VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda group cars. See the 14 pages of cars on the below ebay.de link to get an idea of just how common this carrier is.

 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/ATE-Bremssattelhalter-Halter-Bremssattel-fur-SEAT-VW-AUDI-3240424/392817821614?hash=item5b75c447ae:g:vnoAAOSweDNe0OJk

 

Edited 20 January, 20215 yr by Carlston

2 hours ago, AMD87 said:

im still on 288s with a 2 litre 
 

 

Rubbish. 

 

I think it doesn't matter if it's 1.6 or 2.0 

the important thing is when you speed up. Have the feeling that you will stay at a safe distance. I just come to here 3 month ago I have no experience snow and so much rain have on the road. 

My last two mk3 1.6 tdi seat leon increased to powers over 200 hp and both car brakes upgrade 340mm.

 

1 hour ago, Carlston said:

 

What OEM numbers do your front brake calipers have (with 288mm front brake discs)? Are you on the LUCAS system or the TEVES system?

 

If you are on the LUCAS system, you will need new calipers and carriers.

 

If you are on the TEVES system, you just need new carriers.

 

With the LUCAS system, the carriers are handed, ie. the left carrier is different from the right carrier.

 

With the TEVES system, the carriers are not handed, ie. the left carrier is the same as the right carrier.

 

front brake disc (vented) LUCAS 288X25MM

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/FAB/year/2008/drive_standart/453/hg_ug/615/subcategory/615026/part_id/0/lang/e

 

front brake disc (vented) TEVES 288X25MM

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/OCT/year/2001/drive_standart/252/hg_ug/615/subcategory/615025/part_id/2550123/lang/e

 

front brake disc (vented) TEVES 312X25MM

http://www.oemepc.com/audi/part_single/catalog/au/markt/RDW/modell/ATT/year/2003/drive_standart/278/hg_ug/615/subcategory/615025/part_id/0/lang/e

 

OEM numbers 8L0615125 8N0615125 4B0615125A are also compatible with OEM number 1J0615125A. These carriers have been fitted to many VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda group cars. See the 14 pages of cars on the below ebay.de link to get an idea of just how common this carrier is.

 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/ATE-Bremssattelhalter-Halter-Bremssattel-fur-SEAT-VW-AUDI-3240424/392817821614?hash=item5b75c447ae:g:vnoAAOSweDNe0OJk

 

 

Thank you very much for your detailed answers. I will get the tires out and look at the codes as soon as possible.

 

On 19/01/2021 at 23:36, AMD87 said:

im still on 288s with a 2 litre 
 

 

Rubbish. 

I was on 256 front and had to replace hub carriers to get 312 to fit, I have mk1audi tt 312 discs, callipers and carriers up front and mk1 octavia vrs 256 on rear, rear discs are actually my old front discs

On 20/01/2021 at 02:36, E2TK said:

 

I think it doesn't matter if it's 1.6 or 2.0 

the important thing is when you speed up. Have the feeling that you will stay at a safe distance. I just come to here 3 month ago I have no experience snow and so much rain have on the road. 

My last two mk3 1.6 tdi seat leon increased to powers over 200 hp and both car brakes upgrade 340mm.

 

size doesn't matter, friction does. i'd put money on my car out braking your leon.

On 22/01/2021 at 21:36, AMD87 said:

size doesn't matter, friction does. i'd put money on my car out braking your leon.

Weight makes a difference too, but your point stands.

On 22/01/2021 at 21:36, AMD87 said:

size doesn't matter, friction does.

 

Small brakes with very powerful calipers will overheat, so size does matter.

17 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

Small brakes with very powerful calipers will overheat, so size does matter.

not really if they dont dissipate properly

@Carlstonsomeone really needs to be driving very spirited on UK roads if they are overheating their brakes.  Driving like a d1ck even.

Zooming along and braking into every corner or in the corners and all this while only doing 60 mph ish max.

Maybe even doing a lower average speed than someone just driving along singing a song and making good progress.

 

Tracking the car, doing sprints etc might well be different.

On 22/01/2021 at 21:36, AMD87 said:

size doesn't matter, friction does. i'd put money on my car out braking your leon.

 

keep calm ok you are champion

21 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

Small brakes with very powerful calipers will overheat, so size does matter.

I mean, you could just rig up some vents to cool them or get different wheels to keep them cool. From my experience beating the **** out of my old fabia in the fields the brakes hold up very well. I'd be out for hours at a time and they only got to be slightly soft once or twice in all of my left foot braking, 50-60 mph sideways in fields antics. The brakes on that car are still probably the best thing on it nearly 4 years later too. Plus with 256mm brakes you can run 14's, that was one thing that annoyed me about my monte carlo was that I couldn't use the spare wheel from my old car because a 14" rim wont go over 288mm brakes.

Unless you have north of 200 bhp the 288's are really all the brakes you need on a Fabia because it's quite a light car.

If it's R.I.C.E you like then knock yourself out. Ricer.

2 hours ago, E2TK said:

 

keep calm ok you are champion

Thanks 

 

if only there was data logs too with a STCC touring car and a production saloon race car with btcc ap brakes to compare the 288’s with eh?

 

On 20/01/2021 at 02:36, E2TK said:

 

I think it doesn't matter if it's 1.6 or 2.0 

the important thing is when you speed up. Have the feeling that you will stay at a safe distance. I just come to here 3 month ago I have no experience snow and so much rain have on the road....

Not wanting to sound negative but you just made yourself look like a p155 p00r foreign driver, who drives like a muppet in a climate they know little about!

 

If you have no experience of rain and snow, I suggest you stick to stock brakes and vehicles and perhaps take some extra driver training with the money you would have spent. I truly despair at the state of the standard of driving in this country in the last few decades, despite the actual driving test becoming increasingly tougher, due to poor driver skills.

 

Only today, I watched a video clip, taken by a friend of my daughter,  of a driver barely managing to control their vehicle on a snowy hill, where they travelled the wrong side of a traffic island as they struggled to keep the car in check... This was then surpassed by a complete ar5eh0le, trying to overtake on the normal side, who narrowly avoided the first car, then swerved but still hit a parked vehicle, veered across the road just ahead of the car they tried to pass and struck another vehicle on the opposite side, whilst still careering along the road, where I think they managed to strike yet another vehicle. Bigger brakes would not have made any difference to that piece of extremely careless (Or now, car-less ) Driving as the driver was treating the roads the same as if they were NOT EVEN WET, but as if they were dry! I see this all too often, I am afraid. 

On 20/01/2021 at 02:36, E2TK said:

 

 

 

14 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@Carlstonsomeone really needs to be driving very spirited on UK roads if they are overheating their brakes.  Driving like a d1ck even.

Zooming along and braking into every corner or in the corners and all this while only doing 60 mph ish max.

Maybe even doing a lower average speed than someone just driving along singing a song and making good progress.

 

Tracking the car, doing sprints etc might well be different.

 

The Fabia has come with 239mm, 256mm, or 288mm diameter front brake discs over the years.

 

If you go out on a fast A road with lots of bends on a hot summer's day (perhaps a heat-wave) with a fully loaded Fabia with the smallest 239mm diameter front brake discs and standard front brake pads (ie. not fast road use brake pads or track brake pads...which can get hotter before they fade), then you might experience brake fade.

 

Diameter and thickness and weight of front brake discs that have been fitted to the Fabia over the years 

 

239mm x 18mm 3.6kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/8713550

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/6Q0615301

 

256mm x 22mm 5.1kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/1657152

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/6R0615301

 

288mm x 25mm 7.2kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/7015044

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/6R0615301A

 

Notice that as you go up from the 239mm diameter front brake discs to 288mm diameter front brake discs, the weight doubles. That's a lot of extra metal to first of all heat up, and secondly to help with heat dissipation.

 

Here's the weight of the 312mm x 25mm front discs from cars such as the Octavia MK1

 

312mm x 25mm 7.9kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/1657272

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/8N0615301A

 

As you can see, there's a big difference in weight between the 239mm and 256mm front discs and the 256mm and 288mm front discs, but not much difference in weight between the 288mm front discs and the 312mm front discs. In percentage terms, the 256mm front discs are about 40% heavier than the 239mm front discs and the 288mm front discs are about 40% heavier than the 256mm front discs. However, the 312mm front discs are only about 10% heavier than the 288mm front discs.

 

From the Brembo technical diagrams on autodoc, it looks like the 239mm, 256mm, and 288mm front discs have 36 cooling fins, whereas the 312mm front discs have 45 cooling fins.

 

Edited 26 January, 20215 yr by Carlston

@Carlston The OP has a 1.6tdi Monte Carlo so what is the point of going through the history of Fabia and brake sizes ?   What car is it you drive and is this in the UK,   Is it still a MK1 Fabia estate?               Do you fill your Fabia with friends or loved ones and drive like an idiot on the wonderful driving roads where nobody else went out that fine day.   Where is this parallel universe in which you drive where a Fabia Monte Carlo with serviced brakes and a remap is cooking the brakes?

 

Just a Sunday drive someplace in Germany with someone in a 220ps Fabia with DSG.

Appropriate brake hardware and fluids will be getting used obviously.

 

 

 

This member is Smokin!

 

 

 

Edited 26 January, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

9 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

The Fabia has come with 239mm, 256mm, or 288mm diameter front brake discs over the years.

 

If you go out on a fast A road with lots of bends on a hot summer's day (perhaps a heat-wave) with a fully loaded Fabia with the smallest 239mm diameter front brake discs and standard front brake pads (ie. not fast road use brake pads or track brake pads...which can get hotter before they fade), then you might experience brake fade.

 

Diameter and thickness and weight of front brake discs that have been fitted to the Fabia over the years 

 

239mm x 18mm 3.6kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/8713550

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/6Q0615301

 

256mm x 22mm 5.1kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/1657152

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/6R0615301

 

288mm x 25mm 7.2kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/7015044

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/6R0615301A

 

Notice that as you go up from the 239mm diameter front brake discs to 288mm diameter front brake discs, the weight doubles. That's a lot of extra metal to first of all heat up, and secondly to help with heat dissipation.

 

Here's the weight of the 312mm x 25mm front discs from cars such as the Octavia MK1

 

312mm x 25mm 7.9kg

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/1657272

http://www.oemepc.com/tvn_result/search/tvn/8N0615301A

 

As you can see, there's a big difference in weight between the 239mm and 256mm front discs and the 256mm and 288mm front discs, but not much difference in weight between the 288mm front discs and the 312mm front discs. In percentage terms, the 256mm front discs are about 40% heavier than the 239mm front discs and the 288mm front discs are about 40% heavier than the 256mm front discs. However, the 312mm front discs are only about 10% heavier than the 288mm front discs.

 

From the Brembo technical diagrams on autodoc, it looks like the 239mm, 256mm, and 288mm front discs have 36 cooling fins, whereas the 312mm front discs have 45 cooling fins.

 

And Skoda spent how many millions in research and development into developing the braking system? 
 

I doubt they just go to a parts room find a set and go that’ll do like most folk that do “big brake” upgrades. 

3 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@Carlston The OP has a 1.6tdi Monte Carlo so what is the point of going through the history of Fabia and brake sizes ?   What car is it you drive and is this in the UK,   Is it still a MK1 Fabia estate?               Do you fill your Fabia with friends or loved ones and drive like an idiot on the wonderful driving roads where nobody else went out that fine day.   Where is this parallel universe in which you drive where a Fabia Monte Carlo with serviced brakes and a remap is cooking the brakes?

 

Just a Sunday drive someplace in Germany with someone in a 220ps Fabia with DSG.

Appropriate brake hardware and fluids will be getting used obviously.

 

 

 

This member is Smokin!

 

 

 

I never even managed to cook the brakes once doing super lap Scotland, god knows now many track days and top speed runs at elvington 😂

Edited 26 January, 20215 yr by AMD87