Getting rid of the Superb, what next...

[TheBinarySheep]

After a number of issues and costly repairs, we've decided we just don't have any confidence in the car anymore and we're getting rid of the Superb. It's not particularly the cars fault, and I'd easily have another.  For those not familiar with the story, Bought a Superb 280, got it remapped, turbo blew which resulted in the engine needing new crankshaft bearings and a repair bill of £3k. 

 

We're in the process of looking for our next car, but it's amazing how difficult choosing a car can be, but I thought I'd share thoughts and get some opinions.

 

Audi S5 (2017) - I like this, looks good, plenty of power, four wheel drive, 6 cylinders, sounds good, and hatchback for better boot access. I've watched loads of reviews, and my only concern is that as with the Superb, I'd regret not getting something that feels more direct and responsive (sporty). Many reviews say that the steering/ride isn't as direct as some of the competition, and the gearbox can be a bit lazy if it's not in sport (i'm thinking similar to the Superb in D mode). While I want more power, I don't want it to be at the sacrifice of driver engagement and feel (or fun factor). Within budget, I'm looking at a 2017 model, obviously outside of manufacturers warranty but still with less than 30k miles on the clock.

 

BMW 330i (2019) - I absolutely love the look of these. In my opinion it's one of the best, if not the best looking saloon in its class. No four wheel drive, 100hp down on the S5, but from reviews the drive is more direct, responsive and the handling on twisty roads trumps the S5. Interior quality looks excellent. With this one I'm afraid I'd have the opposite problem to the S5, while it's probably a better drive, will I regret not getting something with more power. Really, it's only 20hp down on the Superb (at stock) and I was pretty happy with that (until I got a remap which seems like easy, cheap power). Having watched plenty of views, the engine sounds ok, and there's at least some noise from the exhaust which seems very similar to that of a Mini Cooper S (wife has one). A 2019 model would still fall under the manufacturers warranty which could be extended to provide further peace of mind.

 

Merc C43 (2017) - 3.0 V6 twin turbo. I did initially consider one of these, but I think I've pretty much ruled this one out because of the dated technology, and the interior is starting to look dated compared to the new 3 series. Again, it would be outside of warranty. I like the idea of this car, the brand, the look, the engine and its twin turbos, but I can't get past the infotainment lacking Apple CarPlay and looking generally old. It has a smaller boot than everything else (by about 80 litres), but I could have gotten past that.

 

Alfa Guila Veloce (2019) - I like the look of these, 280hp so plenty of power, but it's very similar to the 3 series and given a choice between the two, I'd always opt for the 3 series for the simple fact I think the interior is better and I would expect it to hold more of its value.

 

340i/440i (2018) (Previous generation) - While this would meet my needs for more power and a direct/sporty feel, once you've looked at the new 3 series the previous generations just look dated in comparison and I don't think I could get past that. In isolation the previous gen 3/4 series is a lovely looking car, but when it's put side by side with the latest generation there's night and day between them. I think the previous gen 3 series design goes all the way back to 2014, that's 7 year.

 

Audi S4/S4 Avant - I'm not a fan of the looks, they're just too bland for me. I want something I can park up in a supermarket that makes me want to look back at it, and I don't think these do that.

 

Kia Stinger 3.3 - Just nope, not a fan.

 

Golf R/Seat Leon/VRS etc - I've ruled these out. I've had a few things from the VW that use the EA888 engine and I fancy a change. Something a bit more upmarket. For the same price as a used 3 series, I could get a more or less new Octavia VRS. They look great, and while I always liked my old Mk 3 VRS, I always found it struggled with front end grip and the sound system was pretty dire.

 

Honda Civic Type R/Renault Megane R.S. - These cars would be fun to strive with enough power day to day, but at 40 year old I think I'm a little too old for these. I'd also prefer something with a bigger boot.

 

Volvo V60 T5 R-Design - On paper this is probably a car that should be perfectly suited to me. More mature, enough power, auto gearbox, plenty for space for carrying the family around, and I recon it's the best looking estate on the market. The problem is, many reviews say that the car is geared too much towards comfort and that the gearbox is slow to respond. That rules it out because while it's more than likely fantastic doing daily duties, it just won't impart any kind of excitement when you want to hit those B roads.

 

Anything from Jag - Designs look too dated.

 

My decisions seems to change from hour to hour. I'm not rushing into anything, especially as we're in lockdown anyway, but it's frustrating. I feel like I'm edging towards a 2019 330i, but it's just that niggling feeling that I'll want more power and whether or not I'd be willing to sacrifice driver engagement to get it. If I could get the the latest 340i within budget, that would be my made up, but they're almost £10k more and I just don't have the money.

[Gerrycan]

Looking at your list of cars and requirements it seems that you want a big, comfortable, sporty and powerful car at a reasonable price. I can't really think of one that fulfils all your needs without pushing into the pricey upper Mercedes or AMG category.

According to many who have posted about theirs even the 280 Superb cannot really be considered a nimble car despite its many other redeeming features.

It's either two different cars or you compromise on something?

It is probably a bit too small for you but I always thought the previous edition BMW Series One with rear wheel drive and turbo six cylinders offered reasonable bang for your buck in terms of performance and handling. I think they were still in production in 2019

I did have a chuckle about your comment about being 40 and too old for some cars though.

 

[Colin170CR]

Although you are obviously not a fan, I do quite like the Stinger.

 

370BHP 3.3litre GTS for all the power needed & a V6! There's also a 245bhp 4 pot available as well. It's rarity on UK roads & long warranty are big pluses for me. The only drawbacks for the Stinger are, compared to the Superb, a smaller boot space albeit as a hatch it is practical &, no AWD (strangely LHD models can have AWD - something to do with the steering on RHD models in the way of the drive line). It's not what you might call a "sleeper" but I do like the look of it. I would however steer clear of some of the more larey colours though. A 2018/19 MY with 20k on the clock for £20-23k ish & it would still have 3-4 years of warranty!

 

In general I've gone right off BMW, Audi, Merc, Land/Range Rover & most other so called "premium" brands. They are all over priced & far too common for me. Servicing & spares are also too high. Victims of their own success in a way. Volvo might be an exception but they are also expensive.

 

I can understand your dilemma. There is nothing worse than a car guy having to decide what his next car is going to be.

Good luck with your deliberations.

[shyVRS245]

Not sure if a 2017 Porsche Macan is in budget (obviously avoid the 242bhp petrol engine EA888 shared with the Octavia Vrs245 but it can be mapped to around 300bhp) but they hold the price well and handle really well and fairly practical.

[TheBinarySheep]

33 minutes ago, Colin170CR said:

Although you are obviously not a fan, I do quite like the Stinger.

 

370BHP 3.3litre GTS for all the power needed & a V6! There's also a 245bhp 4 pot available as well. It's rarity on UK roads & long warranty are big pluses for me. The only drawbacks for the Stinger are, compared to the Superb, a smaller boot space albeit as a hatch it is practical &, no AWD (strangely LHD models can have AWD - something to do with the steering on RHD models in the way of the drive line). It's not what you might call a "sleeper" but I do like the look of it. I would however steer clear of some of the more larey colours though. A 2018/19 MY with 20k on the clock for £20-23k ish & it would still have 3-4 years of warranty!

 

In general I've gone right off BMW, Audi, Merc, Land/Range Rover & most other so called "premium" brands. They are all over priced & far too common for me. Servicing & spares are also too high. Victims of their own success in a way. Volvo might be an exception but they are also expensive.

 

I can understand your dilemma. There is nothing worse than a car guy having to decide what his next car is going to be.

Good luck with your deliberations.

 

The biggest issue with the Kia is.... it's a Kia, and while I know they are decent cars, my wife and I just can't bring ourselves to spend that sort of money on something that not so long ago was a budget brand. I know Skoda was a budget brand, but the sharing of parts with the rest of the VAG group means that you can be confident you're getting a certain level of quality in most areas.

I did look at a Hyundai i30 Fastback N, but the interiors are drab.

[TheBinarySheep]

41 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

Looking at your list of cars and requirements it seems that you want a big, comfortable, sporty and powerful car at a reasonable price. I can't really think of one that fulfils all your needs without pushing into the pricey upper Mercedes or AMG category.

According to many who have posted about theirs even the 280 Superb cannot really be considered a nimble car despite its many other redeeming features.

It's either two different cars or you compromise on something?

It is probably a bit too small for you but I always thought the previous edition BMW Series One with rear wheel drive and turbo six cylinders offered reasonable bang for your buck in terms of performance and handling. I think they were still in production in 2019

I did have a chuckle about your comment about being 40 and too old for some cars though.

 

Yep, this is certainly the case. 

Whatever I choose, it's going to be flawed in some way. I just need to make sure I make a decision that I don't later regret.

I like the previous gen M140. There's only two issues with it, the first is the dash, based on the 3 series and it's a bit dated. The second, the boot, it's far too small. For my budget I could get a new shape M135i, but again, the boot is fairly small. 

I also looked at a Mini Clubman JCW, 306hp, 4x4, but again, the boot just isn't big enough.

 

The more I think about it, the more the 330i seems to make sense. In the real world, when do you really get chance to use more than 260hp? Being a saloon, the boot isn't a usable, but I can get over that. I'd be aiming for something like this with the big wheels, black grill and uprated brakes. 

The one thing I'm concerned about as well, is that they'll become too common and everyone will have one. A bit like the previous shape 3 series. There's loads around here and they're all driven by chavy lads or wannabe drug dealers.
 

[freelunch]

I had my list whittled down to the Škoda and the Alfa Giulia Veloce. I was driving a Brera at the time. I drove both and settled for the Škoda. The Alfa's problem areas for me were: naff stop/start (dealer said just switch it off), lack of boot space (the hatchback is better) and the Alfa's steering has a wierd hitch under slow speeds and tight lock (dealer said that's the way the front suspension is set up). 

 

I don't regret my choice, but stop and admire the Giulia whenever I see one on the street.

 

You should own an Alfa at least once.

[SurreyJohn]

Looking at the (long) list in first post, I wonder why didn’t include anything from Lexus, or as it includes secondhand cars, Infinity (Nissan’s posh brand no longer sold in UK).

 

Might be just me, but from the list not sure if the aim is to buy a 4 seat grand tourer, or a 5 seat family car

 

Does seem to be an obsession with cars from a manufacturer headquartered in Germany (regardless of which country the car is built in), is there some sort of badge snobbery which is a parameter in Ops choice

 

 

 

[TheBinarySheep]

13 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

Looking at the (long) list in first post, I wonder why didn’t include anything from Lexus, or as it includes secondhand cars, Infinity (Nissan’s posh brand no longer sold in UK).

 

Might be just me, but from the list not sure if the aim is to buy a 4 seat grand tourer, or a 5 seat family car

 

Does seem to be an obsession with cars from a manufacturer headquartered in Germany (regardless of which country the car is built in), is there some sort of badge snobbery which is a parameter in Ops choice

 

 

 

There is some brand snobbery I suppose, but it's mainly because most 'premium' cars seem to come from Germany.
 

Premium brands that I can think of Audi, BMW, Merc, Lexus, Jaguar, Volvo. 3/6 just so happen to be German, and the rest just don't appeal to me for various reasons that don't include them being from Germany. i.e. I love the Volvo V60, but the car itself just lacks that dynamic edge I'm looking for. If the V60 had the directness and sharpness of the 3 series, I'd have one straight away.

I'm not sure any of list included any 4 seat vehicles? They're all five seat I believe.

Over the years we've had everything from Renault, Fiat, Vauxhall, Skoda, Nissan, Rover, MG, and Mazda. We've not had anything from any of the premium brands, and life has taught us lately that life is too short, so why not give one a go. Plus, we'll be the envy of all our friends (kidding!).

[shyVRS245]

Buying a BMW (I've owned 2) you will realise how cheap Skoda's are to service. 

[Markbro]

The civic type R is 4 seat only, a shame really now that you can get it without the large rear wing!

[TheBinarySheep]

1 hour ago, Markbro said:

The civic type R is 4 seat only, a shame really now that you can get it without the large rear wing!

I didn't know it was only a 4 seater. You learn something new every day.

[KeteCantek]

6 hours ago, TheBinarySheep said:

 

The biggest issue with the Kia is.... it's a Kia, and while I know they are decent cars, my wife and I just can't bring ourselves to spend that sort of money on something that not so long ago was a budget brand. I know Skoda was a budget brand, but the sharing of parts with the rest of the VAG group means that you can be confident you're getting a certain level of quality in most areas.

I did look at a Hyundai i30 Fastback N, but the interiors are drab.

I know you get the Audi Engine in the 280 Skoda ... But the Kia has a Genesis engine! 

 

I'd say go for a test drive because if you have bought a Skoda (basically a minicab, but yours is the sleeper version ) , a Kia badge isn't the end of the world . 

[TimothyT]

Before I bought my Stinger I was looking at the C43, 440i, Leon Cupra and a few other cars from your list. I had actually ordered a Leon Cupra but it came with wrong extras from the factory so I ended up not taking it and got my downpayment back.

The Stinger is a wonderful car and the only reason I ended up with a Superb 280 estate is that I am getting a large dog that the Stinger just wont fit.

In terms of pure performance for sprited driving, out of the choice you have the Stinger is by far the best balance of value for money due to its very long warranty,  the quality in general is nothing short of its competitors at a much more reasonable bang for your buck cost. The steering is very very responsive, it has amazing brakes on it which makes it a very fun car around the track also. 

I had the European spec AWD but as far as I understand the driving gets even more fun if you're driving a RWD Stinger.

I don't have a huge bias towards brands so that is why it was a no brainer compared to the more expensive options such as the C43, 440i etc.

 

After 3 weeks of driving my Superb the biggest noticeable difference is the DSG gearbox, that is much more responsive in the Superb compared to what the Stinger has, but it is still at a similar level to what the newer BMW's and Mercs have, but just the DSG is superior compared to them. The Volvo gearbox you wrote about is many levels below what the Stinger has and is absolutely garbage. 

[TimothyT]

And another important factor of the Stinger: it is an absolutely gorgeous car when lowered and on 20's

[Baverhanne]

@TimothyT - Don't want to start a "brand fight" here, but have you actually driven the V60 with 8speed gearbox?

I went from a 190TDI 4X4 DSG6 to a V60CC B4 AUT AWD.

In my opinion the Volvo gearbox is far superior to the DSG in terms of choosing the right gear, no hesitation at all from the gearbox no matter drivingconditions, going full throttle it shifts almost seamlessly. In manual it shifts almost as quick as the DSG.

I've driven the Kodiaq 200tdi 4x4 DSG7, that gearbox is better than the DSG6 I had but still it feels "jerky" in some conditions.

Also - this is very subjective and my own humble opinion, if you feel the Superb has good enough chassis, steering response and agility even the V60CC will be better in all those respects. Steering is more direct, not quicker compared to the progressive I had in the Superb  but more like it always goes where you point it without hesitation, chassis and wheel control also is far superior to the stock DCC Superb, it doesn't slam or bounce sideways on bad roads at high speeds, wheels are always in contact with the road (superb not so much) and it doesn't roll as the superb did.

I really liked the superb but I'll never get another stock Superb 3.

[TimothyT]

19 minutes ago, Baverhanne said:

@TimothyT - Don't want to start a "brand fight" here, but have you actually driven the V60 with 8speed gearbox?

I went from a 190TDI 4X4 DSG6 to a V60CC B4 AUT AWD.

In my opinion the Volvo gearbox is far superior to the DSG in terms of choosing the right gear, no hesitation at all from the gearbox no matter drivingconditions, going full throttle it shifts almost seamlessly. In manual it shifts almost as quick as the DSG.

I've driven the Kodiaq 200tdi 4x4 DSG7, that gearbox is better than the DSG6 I had but still it feels "jerky" in some conditions.

Also - this is very subjective and my own humble opinion, if you feel the Superb has good enough chassis, steering response and agility even the V60CC will be better in all those respects. Steering is more direct, not quicker compared to the progressive I had in the Superb  but more like it always goes where you point it without hesitation, chassis and wheel control also is far superior to the stock DCC Superb, it doesn't slam or bounce sideways on bad roads at high speeds, wheels are always in contact with the road (superb not so much) and it doesn't roll as the superb did.

I really liked the superb but I'll never get another stock Superb 3.

Impossible to start a "brand fight" with me because I barely care about brands, but yes, I've driven a Polestar version, did not enjoy it, but maybe it is also a matter of getting used to it. I don't know about the "lower" specs of Superbs but I do agree that even the 2.0 280bhp version does have a fair bit of float, which makes sense due to its large boot but at the same time it is not that much more than a Leon Cupra estate has for example. So I do agree that the Superb chassis needs a bit of aftermarket work and as far as I understand a proper set of sway bars and perhaps even lowering springs should give it the extra stiffness it misses. 

Regarding the DSG jerkyness, I do understand what you mean but I think that the whole ZF vs DSG vs *smth else* is very much a case of preference and driving style.

[TheBinarySheep]

56 minutes ago, Baverhanne said:

@TimothyT - Don't want to start a "brand fight" here, but have you actually driven the V60 with 8speed gearbox?

I went from a 190TDI 4X4 DSG6 to a V60CC B4 AUT AWD.

In my opinion the Volvo gearbox is far superior to the DSG in terms of choosing the right gear, no hesitation at all from the gearbox no matter drivingconditions, going full throttle it shifts almost seamlessly. In manual it shifts almost as quick as the DSG.

I've driven the Kodiaq 200tdi 4x4 DSG7, that gearbox is better than the DSG6 I had but still it feels "jerky" in some conditions.

Also - this is very subjective and my own humble opinion, if you feel the Superb has good enough chassis, steering response and agility even the V60CC will be better in all those respects. Steering is more direct, not quicker compared to the progressive I had in the Superb  but more like it always goes where you point it without hesitation, chassis and wheel control also is far superior to the stock DCC Superb, it doesn't slam or bounce sideways on bad roads at high speeds, wheels are always in contact with the road (superb not so much) and it doesn't roll as the superb did.

I really liked the superb but I'll never get another stock Superb 3.

I appreciate you opinion of the Volvo.

 

For me, I recall a carwow review which showed when you floor it, there was a long delay before the gearbox would decide it needed to drop a gear. A number of reviews have also highlighted that when put up against the new 3 series for driving pleasure, the Volvo loses out in every way.

 

I've always thought a V60 would be my next car, but while they've made it more sporty compares to older models,they've only gone 70-80% of the way there. If I got one, I know I'll feel the same way that I do about the superb, a fantastic car that lacks a dynamic edge.

 

another car I'm looking at is a Mini Clubman JCW, great sounding, quick, 4x4,  but it lacks the boot space.

 

I may simply have to settle for buying something cheap until we can actually get out and test drive and physically see different cars and make a decision then. My last two cars I've bought from a distance and not test drove or even seen them first.

[Baverhanne]

3 hours ago, TheBinarySheep said:

I appreciate you opinion of the Volvo.

 

For me, I recall a carwow review which showed when you floor it, there was a long delay before the gearbox would decide it needed to drop a gear. A number of reviews have also highlighted that when put up against the new 3 series for driving pleasure, the Volvo loses out in every way.

 

I've always thought a V60 would be my next car, but while they've made it more sporty compares to older models,they've only gone 70-80% of the way there. If I got one, I know I'll feel the same way that I do about the superb, a fantastic car that lacks a dynamic edge.

 

another car I'm looking at is a Mini Clubman JCW, great sounding, quick, 4x4,  but it lacks the boot space.

 

I may simply have to settle for buying something cheap until we can actually get out and test drive and physically see different cars and make a decision then. My last two cars I've bought from a distance and not test drove or even seen them first.

 

I do think that there's been an update of the gearbox software, also - I've driven the T8 hybrid, that one has that delay when doing a kickdown, B4 hasn't.

BMW 3 series is a dream car of mine and I totally agree - it's in a different leauge! To bad they don't offer the CC or allroad setup - i really need the extra ground clearance i have in the CC, but on a BMW that would surely not benefit driving pleasure.

[TheBinarySheep]

If it was just down to looks and practicality, then the V60 would be the choice. But it has the about the same power as the 3 series (250hp) and it's a full second slower to 60. I read a comment on a video that suggested that the 250hp Volvo engine should really be compared to BMWs/Audis 190hp engines. According to reviews the Volvo engine does seem to be a bit rough at high revs compared to the competition too. 

 

Then there's the S60, which is absolutely gorgeous, but has the same problems as the V60. Gearbox too slow, and performance doesn't match the power output.

 

I don't know if the V60/S60 comes with a limited slip diff, because I remember during damp conditioned I always struggled to get the power down in my old 220 VRS. I would imagine without an LSD the Volvo's would be the same. On the other hand, the 330i's I've been looking at have the M Sport Plus package which included an LSD. Combine an LSD with rear wheel drive and there'll be less of an issue getting power now. Obviously 4x4 would be better overall, but I'll struggle to get that without going for an older car.

 

It's just such a shame about the V60, I really want to have one (looks/space), and if I didn't enjoy driving so much then it probably would suite me, but I enjoy driving and I do lots of short journeys where I feel the Volvo is probably more suited to longer runs on the motorway rather than shorter runs around back country roads.

While it would appear than I'd edging towards the 330i, it's not perfect either. It's a saloon. It's boot is 480 litres, which isn't massive but should be enough. Sadly being a saloon it means that the boot is less usable due to the restricted opening. An estate version of the same car is out of my price range until I drop down to the 220i and I'm not willing to drop down to 150hp less than what I've got now.

 

I think I'm going to rule out the Audi S4/S5. While they have plenty of power (350hp), I'd have to get a four year old car to keep within my budget.

A wildcard option is that I get a previous generation 340i Touring. Plenty of power, plenty of space and you can still get them within warranty. They look outdated though, but apart from that it would hit most of my criteria. Not sure I want to be confused with the local drug runners though.

Finally, the Mini Clubman JCW. Only thing it lacks is the space. With a boot capacity of only 380 litres, it's 100 litres down on the 3 series and 245 litres down on the Superb. However, based on driving my wife's Cooper S, I know it would be an absolute hoot to drive with over 300hp and four wheels drive.

 

The whole decision is driving me up the wall.

I always wanted a bigger car, having two kids it's always good to have the space to chuck their bikes/trikes in the boot and go out for the day. Or going on UK holidays and being able to throw all of your cases in the boot. The Superb and Octavia were great at this. It's seems that no-matter what I choose I'm going to lose the freedom of a huge boot.

Edited 13 February, 2021 by TheBinarySheep

[Bigeater]

I chose the superb because it does everything i wanted. I swore there would never be another skoda in my house, but you know what, all cars are flawed in some way. The perfect car doesn't exist. 

Instead of buying something else and throwing money at it after you've got bored with the way it is, why not keep what you have and make better. You won't have to suffer a loss when trading it in either. It already owes you, so keeping it would be my choice. It is nice to be in a position to buy a newer car, but you could buy something else that gives you a headache.

Good luck.

[TimothyT]

9 hours ago, TheBinarySheep said:

 

 

I may simply have to settle for buying something cheap until we can actually get out and test drive and physically see different cars and make a decision then. My last two cars I've bought from a distance and not test drove or even seen them first.

I think thats probably one of the best ideas that you can do, as any car purchase, especially as an enthusiast, is quite a decision. It could also get you over some of the biases that you have created yourself and take cars such as the Stinger out (aswell as the others you've been contemplating), as based on your explanation it does seem to be a car that ticks alot of the important boxes for you: rwd / awd, has an lsd, sedan / coupe bodylines but hatchback opening means that trunk is more usable than a 330i, loads more power etc.

[Redboy]

Does an ideal affordable car exist? A better if you could afford it and have enough room on your drive, would be a more exciting weekend car and a larger daily load carrier. 

[shyVRS245]

4 minutes ago, Redboy said:

Does an ideal affordable car exist? A better if you could afford it and have enough room on your drive, would be a more exciting weekend car and a larger daily load carrier. 

Ford Mondeo Estate cheap as chips.

[KeteCantek]

2 hours ago, Redboy said:

Does an ideal affordable car exist? A better if you could afford it and have enough room on your drive, would be a more exciting weekend car and a larger daily load carrier. 

This absolutely. Unless you want to spend big bucks, you won't get near the ideal car of sporty and roomy. Even then, with big bucks budget, you can sacrifice roomy for even more sport. It's a never ending cycle as they are conflicting requirements. 

 

@TheBinarySheepGet a semi banger cheap MPV for family lugging then a fun car. Or take a brave pill and find an older E63 AMG estate (within your budget) keeping in mind you want a pot of emergency funds if it goes wrong. Upside is that will have you sorted. Just don't complain about fuel economy!

Edited 13 February, 2021 by KeteCantek