What parts are interchangable?

[AMD87]

2 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Pointless.

Thanks for confirming you don’t know much but we knew that already. 

[AMD87]

1 minute ago, DieselMonte said:

 

 

I take it the PQ25 rear is from mk3 fabias and the like?

Interesting, I didnt know the pq25 rear was wider, aside from stability it might help fill out the rear arches. If a disc and a drum pq24 rear is the same width then that would still be fine. After doing the few odds and ends on the suspension the car feels pretty good at speed anyway.

 

No the Mk3 was a PQ26. 
 

The PQ25 was the Ibiza 6J, Polo 6c/r, A1

[AMD87]

1 hour ago, UrbanPanzer said:

 

May well be, but it was originally a PQ24 and from 2010 just a hybrid of both.............. and I don't think "anyone" really knows which parts of which it uses, the main option with PQ25 was for 4wd which Skoda has never offered,

 

 

Not really only 1 PQ25 car used 4WD and the differences are well known. 

[UrbanPanzer]

not sure of your point tbh.......................PQ25 was developed for AWD, just because VW chose to use it in only 1 car makes no odds to the discussion.

Edited 4 May, 2021 by UrbanPanzer

[AMD87]

7 minutes ago, UrbanPanzer said:

not sure of your point tbh.......................PQ25 was developed for AWD, just because VW chose to use it in only 1 car makes no odds to the discussion.

Wasn't just developed for AWD. It was developed for the new generation of engines and improvements that were found over the years from the PQ24 platform. 

[UrbanPanzer]

Never said it was "just" for AWD.......fully aware how things move on within automotive design and manufacture.

 

I am getting drawn into a pointless discussion to be fair,

 

I have not seen and I very much doubt you have seen, along with many others...... the official docs / design changes / improvements etc etc that VW released when developing / building the PQ25 platform, and to be frank any other platform for that matter. It's all word of mouth internet forum hearsay and a lot of the time nonesense and bullsh*t.

[AMD87]

13 hours ago, UrbanPanzer said:

Never said it was "just" for AWD.......fully aware how things move on within automotive design and manufacture.

 

I am getting drawn into a pointless discussion to be fair,

 

I have not seen and I very much doubt you have seen, along with many others...... the official docs / design changes / improvements etc etc that VW released when developing / building the PQ25 platform, and to be frank any other platform for that matter. It's all word of mouth internet forum hearsay and a lot of the time nonesense and bullsh*t.

You’re only getting drawn into it as you don’t seem to want to accept they are actually different. 
 

if you use the search box at the top of the page you’ll find plenty of threads with the differences. Also if you plug in vcds you’ll see that nearly all the modules will come back saying PQ25 and not PQ24. 

[UrbanPanzer]

I am struggling to again understand your comment..........

 

What I have i NOT accepted are different ?

 

and as I stated earlier, and you have just posted............."plenty of threads"......................still doubt theres any official documentation in any of it.

 

Only mention of PQ25 in my Scan is under the BCM, nothing else.

Edited 5 May, 2021 by UrbanPanzer

[sepulchrave]

14 hours ago, AMD87 said:

Thanks for confirming you don’t know much but we knew that already. 

 

I know enough to know an idiot when I see his handiwork.

 

Rear discs on slow cars are pointless, they rust out, give you a crummy handbrake and the calipers seize. Why would you want them?

[Coops164]

20 hours ago, DieselMonte said:

Wait, the rear beam on these is the same as the mk1? So if for talks sake I got a mk1 vRS for parts for my own mk1, I could put the disc rear beam into my mk2? Sorry for hijacking the thread!

 

It's fine my dude haha

18 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Pointless.

 

As is stating that it's pointless, if he wants to do it then there's no reason he cannot.

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I know enough to know an idiot when I see his handiwork.

 

Rear discs on slow cars are pointless, they rust out, give you a crummy handbrake and the calipers seize. Why would you want them?

Do you drive your car 100mph everywhere? Unless you are flat out everywhere you go, then there would never be a reason to fit discs to any car, as every car is technically slow at the speed limit. Also added stoppability is always a nice safety feature.

[AMD87]

3 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I know enough to know an idiot when I see his handiwork.

 

Rear discs on slow cars are pointless, they rust out, give you a crummy handbrake and the calipers seize. Why would you want them?

Yeah cause the standard drums have the best handbrake in the world and don’t sieze. 
 

watch you don’t break that mirror 

[DieselMonte]

5 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Rear discs on slow cars are pointless, they rust out, give you a crummy handbrake and the calipers seize. Why would you want them?

The handbrake on mine is pure ****e, it was adjusted for the NCT and even still was crap. Because I live in a hilly area I constantly need the handbrake so I have to adjust it at least every 2 months. Couldnt do a handbrake turn even if I wanted to lol.

There is no way discs can be worse than the current handbrake.

2 hours ago, AMD87 said:

Yeah cause the standard drums have the best handbrake in the world and don’t sieze.

Actually forgot about the handbrake seizing on, i've gotten into the habit of leaving it off after washing the car because of it. Mine often goes into the garage though after being washed so it wouldnt be able to roll anywhere.

 

5 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I know enough to know an idiot when I see his handiwork

If thats aimed at me then yeah, only an idiot would wreck a car in an open field.

You're right, the standard brakes are perfectly capable as they sit, but I do intend on getting some more power out of the car. I will be getting it mapped soon and the ones I plan on going to claim to be able to get 145hp out of a remap. 145 is opportunistic I think but even if it 'only' got to 130hp thats still the same power as a stock mk1 vRS and they were 288, 232 discs all around. Not wanting to put some showy brembos or wilwoods on quite yet, and I'm not calling every scrapyard in the country looking for a disc rear end either. I'm just trying to say that if the opportunity arose, it would be silly not to.

[AMD87]

43 minutes ago, DieselMonte said:

The handbrake on mine is pure ****e, it was adjusted for the NCT and even still was crap. Because I live in a hilly area I constantly need the handbrake so I have to adjust it at least every 2 months. Couldnt do a handbrake turn even if I wanted to lol.

There is no way discs can be worse than the current handbrake.

Actually forgot about the handbrake seizing on, i've gotten into the habit of leaving it off after washing the car because of it. Mine often goes into the garage though after being washed so it wouldnt be able to roll anywhere.

 

If thats aimed at me then yeah, only an idiot would wreck a car in an open field.

You're right, the standard brakes are perfectly capable as they sit, but I do intend on getting some more power out of the car. I will be getting it mapped soon and the ones I plan on going to claim to be able to get 145hp out of a remap. 145 is opportunistic I think but even if it 'only' got to 130hp thats still the same power as a stock mk1 vRS and they were 288, 232 discs all around. Not wanting to put some showy brembos or wilwoods on quite yet, and I'm not calling every scrapyard in the country looking for a disc rear end either. I'm just trying to say that if the opportunity arose, it would be silly not to.

Yeah the drums are much worse for seizing on compared to the drums. 
 

Just a shame you’ve got folk posting on here thinking they know what they are talking about but don’t actually know what they are talking about 

[DieselMonte]

8 minutes ago, AMD87 said:

Yeah the drums are much worse for seizing on compared to the drums. 
 

Just a shame you’ve got folk posting on here thinking they know what they are talking about but don’t actually know what they are talking about 

Nah, Sepulchrave does seem the sort to know his stuff. Could well be that my cars drums are crap and wont hold properly. All I know is that the handbrake as it sits is crap, so a disc one can hardly be worse.

[AMD87]

2 minutes ago, DieselMonte said:

Nah, Sepulchrave does seem the sort to know his stuff. Could well be that my cars drums are crap and wont hold properly. All I know is that the handbrake as it sits is crap, so a disc one can hardly be worse.

He really doesn’t. I can’t even count how many times in how many different threads he’s had to be corrected. 

[J.R.]

I have taken exception with him before but  on reflection only when I was on the recieving end of the blunt way he puts things but when its others getting the good news I find it entertaining! I should be ashamed to say that but I'm not because what he was saying was not incorrect.

 

He certainly knows his stuff though and I can't think of an example where he has been wrong, I think he works in the trade and sees a lot of our vehicles perhaps not hands on and I reckon he has had to suffer a lot of fools, he certainly is not defensive of the motor trade and makes me laugh with his description of them.

[Coops164]

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

I have taken exception with him before but  on reflection only when I was on the recieving end of the blunt way he puts things but when its others getting the good news I find it entertaining! I should be ashamed to say that but I'm not because what he was saying was not incorrect.

 

He certainly knows his stuff though and I can't think of an example where he has been wrong, I think he works in the trade and sees a lot of our vehicles perhaps not hands on and I reckon he has had to suffer a lot of fools, he certainly is not defensive of the motor trade and makes me laugh with his description of them.

I wouldn't want to fall out with him over this subject, but this isn't a wrong or right, and this technically isn't anything to do with the motor trade in general, this is a modification to a vehicle regarding the swapping of a axle beam for the benefit of a disc brakes on the rear. To put someone down for wanting to do said modification isn't what I really want to see on a thread I've started, or in this forum really, there's no need for it. If it's something he doesn't agree with he that's fine, but DieselMonte only wanted to know whether or not the modification was possible, not whether or not he agreed with doing said modification. He may have to suffer a lot of fools, but I couldn't see anything foolish which he'd said.

[sepulchrave]

I'm not putting anyone down, I'm simply outlining the laws of physics which underpin engineering modifications which actually do something rather than just being for appearance.

 

For the hard of thinking here's why drums give you a better handbrake:

 

Sticktion, that's static friction for short.

Press your hand flat on a table and try and move it. Now do the same with a finger.

Feel the difference?

 

If your car came with rear drums as standard it is much too slow to benefit from rear discs, when you brake hard most of the cars weight transfers to the front wheels and the front discs do most of the work, that weight transfer decreases at higher speeds which is why fast cars have rear discs.

 

From an engineering standpoint it is therefore a pointless mod being done for cosmetic reasons, I'm not being rude, I'm simply telling you the truth.

 

 

[J.R.]

Drum brakes are superior to discs in almost every way except for the really important one  -  heat dissipation, for that reason disc brakes are now used in almost 100% of front axle braking systems but unless the vehicle is capable of overheating the rear brakes then drums would be better than discs on the rear, if maintained properly.

 

The great advantage of drums is their self servo ability with twin leading shoes, brake servos only came into being with the advent of front disc brakes, this advantage is diminished on leading & trailing shoe set up needed for most handbrake mechanisms.

 

You cant beat drum rear brakes for handbrake efficiency, I think the stunt drivers must use hydraulic handbrakes if they retain the rear discs on modern vehicles, its been decades since I could do a decent handbrake turn on a dry grippy road without risking snapping or stretching the handbrake cables.

[sepulchrave]

Stunt cars use hydraulic handbrakes just like rally cars do with manually adjustable brake bias valves.

[Coops164]

I'm confused, is the handbrake the defining issue here? If it is, yes, a drum brakes handbrake will be superior, but that isn't saying disc brake handbrakes are completely useless, because they aren't, they're fine. The only car I've ever had the handbrake fail on had drum brakes. I've actually known a friend that used to not use his handbrake at all on his drum braked car because it'd completely seized.

 

Also cost and maintenance tends to have a lot more to do with it than speed. Spec and pricing are a lot more important to most people whilst buying a car than the added safety. Unless of course everyone's buying sports cars. Which they're not. Because not everyone can afford that luxury. So I guess rear discs get us one step closer to that dream.

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, Coops164 said:

I'm confused, is the handbrake the defining issue here?

 

No.

 

16 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

If your car came with rear drums as standard it is much too slow to benefit from rear discs, when you brake hard most of the cars weight transfers to the front wheels and the front discs do most of the work, that weight transfer decreases at higher speeds which is why fast cars have rear discs.

 

Feel free to ignore practical considerations and do whatever you like, it's your car and it's your time and money.

[DieselMonte]

Oddly the only car i've had with a bust handbrake has drums (my glorious mk1) The Mk2 handbrake is pretty crap so I doubt discs can make it worse.

Not the type to be painting the brakes bright red for looks either, mine are silver calipers and I sprayed the drums black. 

Maybe I should put this idea under 'pipe dream' and leave it be for now

[Coops164]

2 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

No.

 

 

Feel free to ignore practical considerations and do whatever you like, it's your car and it's your time and money.

If everyone lived by that rulebook, there would never be any interesting projects. Why are you also talking to everyone in such a condescending manner? It's a website for people who mess around with their cars, nothing more.

1 hour ago, DieselMonte said:

Oddly the only car i've had with a bust handbrake has drums (my glorious mk1) The Mk2 handbrake is pretty crap so I doubt discs can make it worse.

Not the type to be painting the brakes bright red for looks either, mine are silver calipers and I sprayed the drums black. 

Maybe I should put this idea under 'pipe dream' and leave it be for now

I'd do it, just as a "**** you" now 

[Breezy_Pete]

I always convert any car I buy from rear discs to drums. Said no-one, ever.