Timing belt snapped

[adokS12]

Hi yet another woe timing belt snapped!, had to get the car brought home with Greenflag, sat in the car at traffic lights and just cut out, tried to start but no go. What will need doing to get it fixed and how much does anyone think it will cost?, car only done 57.000 miles and belt and water pump was changed 3 years ago. 2010 1.6 diesel greenline.

Sat here fed up.  Thanks.

[KenONeill]

51 minutes ago, adokS12 said:

timing belt snapped!

If you're dead lucky, just a bent valve or 4. If not, it could be a full set of valves, a broken camshaft, 4 chipped piston, 4 bent con rods, a bent crankshaft and even some smashed camshaft journals. You are rather asking us to guess here.

[xman]

Who diagnosed a snapped belt? Strange it happened while idling. Certainly not a common issue and well within the 5 year/ 115,000 mile (iirc) recommended change interval.

 

Was the belt/pump changed at Hayselden (Doncaster) or was this diagnosis done by them?

 

 

[adokS12]

I feel a lot better now!.

[adokS12]

1 minute ago, xman said:

Who diagnosed a snapped belt? Strange it happened while idling. Certainly not a common issue and well within the 5 year/ 115,000 mile (iirc) recommended change interval.

 

Was the belt/pump changed at Hayselden (Doncaster) or was this diagnosis done by them?

 

 

I pulled the belt cover to see the belt and I could see it was broken, yes just sat at the lights and it made a funny noise and cut out. The belt was changed by an independent garage it was changed because the water pump was leaking at 9000 miles!. 

[KenONeill]

6 minutes ago, xman said:

Who diagnosed a snapped belt? Strange it happened while idling.

Well, mine was technically a failed tensioner, but the result was the same (camshaft stopped turning, and pistons on exhaust and compression strokes pushed valves into camshaft...)

[KenONeill]

1 minute ago, adokS12 said:

I pulled the belt cover to see the belt and I could see it was broken, yes just sat at the lights and it made a funny noise and cut out. The belt was changed by an independent garage it was changed because the water pump was leaking at 9000 miles!. 

OK, did they change the full timing kit and the water pump or just the belt and pump?

[adokS12]

2 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

OK, did they change the full timing kit and the water pump or just the belt and pump?

It was a full kit. How much di it cost for you to get yours done?. 

[KenONeill]

1 minute ago, adokS12 said:

It was a full kit. How much di it cost for you to get yours done?. 

£350 for Gates kit, water pump and labour.

 

If it was a full kit and it's been in under 2 years, you may have a full claim against the installer.

[adokS12]

2 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

£350 for Gates kit, water pump and labour.

 

If it was a full kit and it's been in under 2 years, you may have a full claim against the installer.

It's been three years since it was done, that price did it include taking the head off?, 

[KenONeill]

13 minutes ago, adokS12 said:

that price did it include taking the head off?,

Why would it? The cambelt is a service item for sure, and the pulley, tensioner and water pump are treated as service items because their typical actual service life is about 1.5 that of the cambelt. I can't see any need to disturb the head.

[seriesdriver]

You will need to get the car to a garage to have a look at it no point guessing here as to how bad it might be, best case it can be put right for a reasonable fee worst case you may need a new engine/it may not be economic to repair.

[Aj77]

I can't see how a TB could snap without destroying the engine, there's no room for luck. If I were you I'd start looking for a second hand engine on breakers sites.

[adokS12]

Hi, Thanks to everyone that has commented hopefully I will get the car looked at this week, if it means another engine I am not going that far , I have loved and cherished that car it looks like new just spent £550 on having the wheels re powder coated and new tyres I am always spending money on it. I was fortunate to have the car given to me by my brother in the first place that's 6 years ago when it only had 9000 miles on the clock!. Yesterday was a sad day and I don't feel much better today, I have a good friend that is going to lone me a car until I get things sorted one way or the other. I will update when I know more. Thank you.

[Warrior193]

Probably worth giving the engine a head-off inspection - you may have been very lucky that the belt failed while idling in neutral - low kinetic energy and engine not being driven by wheels after failure. 

[seriesdriver]

2 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

Probably worth giving the engine a head-off inspection - you may have been very lucky that the belt failed while idling in neutral - low kinetic energy and engine not being driven by wheels after failure. 

Agree with this its worth taking the head off to have a look, the op may be very fortunate plus if you know what the damage is it may be easier to sell as is as a new buyer would know what they are taking on

[xman]

When it first stopped, the engine was simply idling, so the damage at that stage may have been slight. Attempts at restarting may compound further damage, I would have thought if pistons and valves were making contact then the starter would stall, certainly struggle until valves or followers were bent. No further attempts at turning the engine over should be done.

 

Borescope inspection probably first. Not sure if the 1.6 tdi has a simple removeable cover or whether the cover integrates the camshaft. Best to make the assumption that the couple of hundred pounds spent stripping the top end may be dead money if damage is too great.

 

My suspicion is the indie who did the belt/pump did not change everything or maybe even anything. Or it could have been contamination on the belt, a leaking water pump is a prime candidate. Seized pump or iders is another possibility. Maybe chinese ebay parts were used.

 

Forensic stripdown may reveal the cause.

 

Was the indie a back street outfit? If you use the same guys to carry out a stripdown/repairs, they might cover up any misdeeds from their previous work. So don't necessarily believe what they tell you.

Edited 31 May, 2021 by xman

[Titanium_Man]

10 hours ago, Aj77 said:

I can't see how a TB could snap without destroying the engine, there's no room for luck. If I were you I'd start looking for a second hand engine on breakers sites.

I disagree. Mine properly snapped at 50mph and the only damage was 2 bent valves. 
 

The belt was about 4 years and three weeks old and covered 24k, for the record. 

Edited 31 May, 2021 by jars

[KenONeill]

2 hours ago, adokS12 said:

if it means another engine I am not going that far

Well, my previous comment covers best and worst cases. I'd suggest taking off the cam cover and seeing if the camshaft and head look OK. If they look OK, try and turn the engine over on the crank pulley nut and report back on the findings.

[adokS12]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

Well, my previous comment covers best and worst cases. I'd suggest taking off the cam cover and seeing if the camshaft and head look OK. If they look OK, try and turn the engine over on the crank pulley nut and report back on the findings.

Hi When the engine cut out not really thinking I did try to start it and there wasn't any knocking or banging noises. Going to ring round tomorrow see if I can get someone to check it asap.

[KenONeill]

35 minutes ago, adokS12 said:

I did try to start it and there wasn't any knocking or banging noises.

If it would spin on the starter you may have got away with it. If there's someone you trust, try getting them to fit a new belt, and do a compression test.

[adokS12]

3 hours ago, KenONeill said:

If it would spin on the starter you may have got away with it. If there's someone you trust, try getting them to fit a new belt, and do a compression test.

OK so I have decided to have a go at stripping it tomorrow I've been looking at youtube videos doesn't look too bad a job, I don't have the timing tools but there is plenty of mobile mechanics out there when I strip it I will call one and ask them to fit the belt, I also know a couple of people in the trade that might do it, I was a time served mechanic I worked on Citroens  but that is nearly 50 years ago I have all the tools apart from the timing tools, as you say I might have got away with it, so get a belt kit and pump get it fitted start it up see what happens?.

[KenONeill]

44 minutes ago, adokS12 said:

so get a belt kit and pump get it fitted

Do that, and see if the engine spins freely on the starter. If it does, fit the pulleys, tensioner and pump, but keep the same belt, and do a compression test, looking for normal and consistent pressures on all 4.

[adokS12]

14 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Do that, and see if the engine spins freely on the starter. If it does, fit the pulleys, tensioner and pump, but keep the same belt, and do a compression test, looking for normal and consistent pressures on all 4.

Hi, I have got the timing tools, the only thing I don't know what to do is time the crank pully?, on youtube videos they show fitting the timing tool on the crank while the belt is still on obviously mine isn't I can't find any instructions is there any timing marks on the pully?, how do I time it. Thank You. Stripping it down today at least the weather is nice.

[caprixpack]

I feel your pain, the water pump let go on my mk2 st recently. I was lucky and only suffered 12 bent valves out of 20.