Brake pad knocking

[tomklages]

Hi all,

 

I've scoured the internet high and low for the answer to this, but come up with nothing. If it's already been answered and I'm just blind, or I'm in the wrong place here please let me know.

 

I've got a 2013 Octavia VRs Estate. One of the first of the mk3s. 

 

I recently did a disc and pad change, front and rear.

 

I noticed, on driving a clunking noise the first time the pedal was pressed, so I did some testing.

 

I drove up and down the road where I live. It goes....drive forward, brake -"clunk", reverse, brake- "clunk. If I go forward and brake, then forward and brake again, the noise only happens the first time.

 

To me, it sounded like pads knocking the caliper.

 

I took it to a local garage who advised it was very likely to be the pads, cheaply made so moving around when the piston pushes and the make contact. So I swapped them for brembos (these are the trw calipers for reference).

 

Although the clunking is less, it's definitely still there.

 

Everything is torqued to spec. I used appropriate greases on the backside and wings of the pads. Unless I've been super stupid I don't think I've missed anything.

 

There are no shims with this set up, as far as I am aware. 

 

Has anyone ever had this? Any help would be super appreciated. Sorry for being a forum noob.

 

 

 

 

[ords]

 

[tomklages]

32 minutes ago, ords said:

 

Thanks so much for sharing the helpful posts. Firstly, it's handy to know it is reasonably common.

 

The gent in the first post has done what I've done and gone for brembos so very surprised I have had the same issue twice. First with eichers, then with the Brembos.

 

The other mentions shims, but again my searching online hasn't really helped me here.

 

Another mentions a grease, but I'd only imagine that would further help with squealing (which isn't a symptom I have) and not the knocking.

 

I'll jump on one of those posts and see how they got on.

 

Thanks anyway

[Ecomatt]

Brake shims will stop the knock and pad rattle. That is what they are made for. Always fitted them to my cars when changing the pads and never had any issue.

[tomklages]

2 minutes ago, Ecomatt said:

Brake shims will stop the knock and pad rattle. That is what they are made for. Always fitted them to my cars when changing the pads and never had any issue.

Thanks, but (and this might seem like a silly question), I assume shims aren't just a generic thing?? And as the new pads never came with shims, and there were no shims already in the caliper, what would I even look for?

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, tomklages said:

Thanks, but (and this might seem like a silly question), I assume shims aren't just a generic thing?? And as the new pads never came with shims, and there were no shims already in the caliper, what would I even look for?

You know which calipers you have. Got to a real parts factor (not a Halfrauds) and ask for pad shims for them. And get a tube of Copaslip when you're there because shims will stop knocking but increase the likelihood of squealing.

[tomklages]

6 hours ago, KenONeill said:

You know which calipers you have. Got to a real parts factor (not a Halfrauds) and ask for pad shims for them. And get a tube of Copaslip when you're there because shims will stop knocking but increase the likelihood of squealing.

Thanks for the advice, really appreciate the help, but the local parts places I've rung today all said if they didn't come with shims as part of the kit, and they weren't fitted with shims when you took the car apart, it's very likely they don't need shims. It's normally part of the kit if required and "after market" shims don't really exist, unless required for the car.

[KenONeill]

5 minutes ago, tomklages said:

the local parts places I've rung today all said if they didn't come with shims as part of the kit, and they weren't fitted with shims when you took the car apart, it's very likely they don't need shims.

Which rather ignores the position you're in, and cases where the old shims fail due to corrosion.

[Guest]

On 08/07/2021 at 16:13, tomklages said:

Hi all,

 

I've scoured the internet high and low for the answer to this, but come up with nothing. If it's already been answered and I'm just blind, or I'm in the wrong place here please let me know.

 

I've got a 2013 Octavia VRs Estate. One of the first of the mk3s. 

 

I recently did a disc and pad change, front and rear.

 

I noticed, on driving a clunking noise the first time the pedal was pressed, so I did some testing.

 

I drove up and down the road where I live. It goes....drive forward, brake -"clunk", reverse, brake- "clunk. If I go forward and brake, then forward and brake again, the noise only happens the first time.

 

To me, it sounded like pads knocking the caliper.

 

I took it to a local garage who advised it was very likely to be the pads, cheaply made so moving around when the piston pushes and the make contact. So I swapped them for brembos (these are the trw calipers for reference).

 

Although the clunking is less, it's definitely still there.

 

Everything is torqued to spec. I used appropriate greases on the backside and wings of the pads. Unless I've been super stupid I don't think I've missed anything.

 

There are no shims with this set up, as far as I am aware. 

 

Has anyone ever had this? Any help would be super appreciated. Sorry for being a forum noob.

 

 

 

 

 

I can see someone quoted my post. I had this exact issue when cheap discs and pads were fitted to the rear of the 2013 VRS. I then got the garage to change the pads to Brembos from ECP and the issue disappeared completely. Sorry to hear you still have some noise even after fitting the Brembo pads. 

[Westbury63]

Sometime referred to as a brake fitting kit.

 

I've found Pagid to be brilliant quality in the past.

[Sj001975]

On 08/07/2021 at 19:03, tomklages said:

Thanks so much for sharing the helpful posts. Firstly, it's handy to know it is reasonably common.

 

The gent in the first post has done what I've done and gone for brembos so very surprised I have had the same issue twice. First with eichers, then with the Brembos.

 

The other mentions shims, but again my searching online hasn't really helped me here.

 

Another mentions a grease, but I'd only imagine that would further help with squealing (which isn't a symptom I have) and not the knocking.

 

I'll jump on one of those posts and see how they got on.

 

Thanks anyway

I own a 2013 vrs octavia..... last week replaced original rear trw/vag pads and discs with new delphi discs and pads.  I also have the same annoying clicking, so my supplier sent a replacement set of delphi pads, didn't even bother fitting as the measure the same, so ordered some Brembo guess what they are the same. There is a lot of space between the lugs. The pads float up and down causing them to click mainly when you reverse, stop, drive forward it stop. If driving forward all the time they don't click. The moral of the story is I think it needs dealer pads, or TRW which are factory fit........I would never use eichers or any other cheap pads like brakefit. I always trade my reputation on using quality parts, ferodo, apex, delphi, trw, brembo etc. Or dealer bits. I am awaiting my supplier getting me some TRW pads. Makes it worse its my car.

Simon, from Appley Bridge Diagnostics Ltd 

[Carlston]

The 272mm diameter rear brakes are a TRW system. Genuine TRW rear brake pads are available on ebay for £27.38 including postage (2 days for delivery is quoted).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234132660460?hash=item368364e0ec%3Ag%3A3UkAAOSwbythE5h-&LH_ItemCondition=3

 

№	part code	title	note	quantity	data model	information
		floating caliper brake brake caliper housing calliper carrier brake disc	rear 272X10MM 5/112		PR-1KS,1KT

10	5Q0 698 451 B	1 set of brake pads for disk brake D >> - 02.11.2014	rear 15"	1	PR-1KS,1KT
(10)	5Q0 698 451 F	1 set of brake pads for disk brake D - 03.11.2014>>	rear 15"	1	PR-1KS,1KT

 

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/6/615-615062/

[tomklages]

On 20/10/2021 at 00:46, Sj001975 said:

I own a 2013 vrs octavia..... last week replaced original rear trw/vag pads and discs with new delphi discs and pads.  I also have the same annoying clicking, so my supplier sent a replacement set of delphi pads, didn't even bother fitting as the measure the same, so ordered some Brembo guess what they are the same. There is a lot of space between the lugs. The pads float up and down causing them to click mainly when you reverse, stop, drive forward it stop. If driving forward all the time they don't click. The moral of the story is I think it needs dealer pads, or TRW which are factory fit........I would never use eichers or any other cheap pads like brakefit. I always trade my reputation on using quality parts, ferodo, apex, delphi, trw, brembo etc. Or dealer bits. I am awaiting my supplier getting me some TRW pads. Makes it worse its my car.

Simon, from Appley Bridge Diagnostics Ltd 

Simon, thanks for taking the time to reply, and after all of this I think you're right, dealer or TRW pads would have probably resolved the issue. I was surprised the brembos had the same problem, but after a few thousand miles it's eased a little, probably due to a bit of brake dust build up.

 

What you've shown in the picture is exactly the problem I was having with mine.

 

Hopefully this thread helps others if they have the same issue with poor fitting pads.

 

Thanks again!

[Sj001975]

4 hours ago, tomklages said:

Simon, thanks for taking the time to reply, and after all of this I think you're right, dealer or TRW pads would have probably resolved the issue. I was surprised the brembos had the same problem, but after a few thousand miles it's eased a little, probably due to a bit of brake dust build up.

 

What you've shown in the picture is exactly the problem I was having with mine.

 

Hopefully this thread helps others if they have the same issue with poor fitting pads.

 

Thanks again!

So the saga continues....TPS just delivered some rear pads and guess what they are exactly the same as both the delphi and brembo ones.....stamped TRW VAG....I give up what if this was a customers car....what a headache. As a mechanical engineer pads should not have this amount of movement in them....

[Carlston]

On 20/10/2021 at 00:46, Sj001975 said:

I own a 2013 vrs octavia..... last week replaced original rear trw/vag pads and discs with new delphi discs and pads.  I also have the same annoying clicking, so my supplier sent a replacement set of delphi pads, didn't even bother fitting as the measure the same, so ordered some Brembo guess what they are the same. There is a lot of space between the lugs. The pads float up and down causing them to click mainly when you reverse, stop, drive forward it stop. If driving forward all the time they don't click. The moral of the story is I think it needs dealer pads, or TRW which are factory fit........I would never use eichers or any other cheap pads like brakefit. I always trade my reputation on using quality parts, ferodo, apex, delphi, trw, brembo etc. Or dealer bits. I am awaiting my supplier getting me some TRW pads. Makes it worse its my car.

Simon, from Appley Bridge Diagnostics Ltd 

 

The photo shows that you are using the wrong pads. The rear brake pads on the Octavia MK3 VRS don't look like that.

 

Here's some photos of what they do look like.

 

Edited 21 October, 2021 by Carlston

[Sj001975]

45 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

The photo shows that you are using the wrong pads. The rear brake pads on the Octavia MK3 VRS don't look like that.

 

Here's some photos of what they do look like.

 

 

[Joebloggz]

Is this measurement of the wrong pad etc.101mm when in fact it should read 104.2mm ?

[Sj001975]

It's actually 103.5.mm the manual vernier isn't the best.  Either way even with dealer pads they still click up and down......update after 4k miles they have finally stopped clicking but now my front pad warning lights come on so I'll update you once they are done but I'll almost 100% say I'll have the same problem as they are the same design 

[Joebloggz]

I have this knocking on new pads I have just fitted but i am going to fit the ATE ones because this was what was on the car and i have had it since new ,so i will see how i get on ,but there is no way they should be that loose. and there is obviously a machine fault at factory. German engineering being the best is a myth lol.

[Sj001975]

Trust me I had several different makes of pad all with the same outcome especially when the dealer ones i seem to recall where ATE .......on the VRS they are TRW from the factory  

[Joebloggz]

I will see how I get on, surely skoda know of this issue? This can not be right that Skoda octavia and golf mk7 have pad issues. Im selling this peice of crap soon anyway bought new in 2018 vrs tdi not impressed at all only got it because I got 5k off it. I ve had french cars that were better. Im selling it for 12k 49k miles

[Sj001975]

Well previously I've always bought vauxhall until psa bought them out......I've had my vrs 4 years and had no major problems in 45k

[Joebloggz]

Yes same I have had mine since new in 2018 with no problems ,but to have rear calipers and pads so badly engineered as to knock when braking and reversing is just not good enough. I cant believe a recall has not been done to correct this.As I say I wont be keeping this for long now will be going back to BMW 

[Sj001975]

Well from a mechanical engineer point of view I wouldn't touch bmwvdue to the timing chain issues. Who the hell designs an engine with the chain at the back meaning total removal to replace......mercs have gone the same

[KenONeill]

2 hours ago, Sj001975 said:

Who the hell designs an engine with the chain at the back

Some Bayerische Mist Wagons are now transverse engine front wheel drive.