Aircon re gassing and emptying

[Kelly_Heroes]

Hello I have the re gassing valve gauge and aircon bottle for refilling aircon.

 

So is it always better to empty all the gas out when its very low to refill?

 

What about if just small amount to top up just refill only?

 

Thanks

[KingTui]

Hey, 

 

What does the gauge say the pressure is currently at? Also what gauge and refilling gas did you buy?

 

Tui

[KenONeill]

50 minutes ago, Kelly_Heroes said:

So is it always better to empty all the gas out when its very low to refill?

Normal practice is to drain and weigh the gas, to determine whether or not these is a significant leak other than normal loss through seals, before refilling with a known mass of R134A and special oil. It is illegal to sell containers of R134A to anyone except a trained technician. Odds on, you've got something as undesirable as propane in this "refill".

[J.R.]

Don't empty the gas out, its illegal and damages the environment, you will also wreck any chance that you have of getting the system running because it will be full of damp air when you try to recharge, at best you will end up with a system with an air/R134a mix, which will not function, most likely you will have an air propane mix, a bomb waiting for an ignition source to send you to meet your maker.

 

But hey, you pays your money you takes your choice!

[Kelly_Heroes]

59 minutes ago, KingTui said:

Hey, 

 

What does the gauge say the pressure is currently at? Also what gauge and refilling gas did you buy?

 

Tui

My friend car just says low. There is no leak just low gas due to not being used enough.

 

stp gauge and stp ez chill.

[Kelly_Heroes]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Don't empty the gas out, its illegal and damages the environment, you will also wreck any chance that you have of getting the system running because it will be full of damp air when you try to recharge, at best you will end up with a system with an air/R134a mix, which will not function, most likely you will have an air propane mix, a bomb waiting for an ignition source to send you to meet your maker.

 

But hey, you pays your money you takes your choice!

These stp bottle are sold in Halfords there safe to use correctly.

 

The shops and garages do the same thing.

[J.R.]

Righty-ho, you know best then, so why are you asking for advice on a forum about releasing the gas to atmosphere?

 

https://www.racplus.com/news/vehicle-ac-industry-to-challenge-defra-over-r134a-top-ups-24-11-2015/

Edited 27 July, 2021 by J.R.

[KingTui]

6 hours ago, Kelly_Heroes said:

stp gauge and stp ez chill.

Hey,

 

The STP one is very good and when the can is empty you get £10 back from it. Its a large can so there is a chance you only end up using half of the can in which case you have two options either let the rest of the R134a out and collect your £10 or screw the red lid on the can and keep it in your garage. Choice is yours but personally I would want to keep the can and check the level each week to see if I have a leak. 

 

If you go to 13 minutes and 50 seconds in this video you can see the guy disconnect everything.

 

Tui

[J.R.]

11 minutes ago, KingTui said:

 let the rest of the R134a out and collect your £10

 

Which completely defeats the object of the cylinder exchange scheme which is the dubious way they have currently got around the regulations banning the sale of single use canisters.

 

Everytime somthing like that is posted on social media its more armament for the professionals who now have to be certified, registered, passed a competency test, have all the correct recovery equipment and pay a fortune for R134a, they are up in arms about the continued sale of these cylinders to private individuals, they are lobbying and taking legal action and stuff like that will make their case open and shut.

[Breezy_Pete]

Can you not return the EZ chill containers for your tenner unless they are empty?  

 

[KingTui]

1 minute ago, Wino said:

Can you not return the EZ chill containers for your tenner unless they are empty?  

 

 

That's a good point actually they might do as Halfords offer an AC Recharge service so I'm sure they would eventually use the gas. 

 

Tui

[xman]

It's illegal in the UK, probably in the EU and US too, to sell R134a or any HFC gas to the public or any garage that doesn't have certified equipment and technicians.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-f-gas-or-equipment

 

So this wonderful STP bottle is just some overpriced Butane (R600) plus the usual "patented" snake oil additives. Interested to see what the MSDS sheet says about the inflammability of the contents. 

 

Beats me why anyone would spend £50 or more for this DIY stuff (plus whatever tools you need) when for £60 you can pop round to your local kwikfit or F1 auto centres where they have a fully automated and certified machine that connects correctly to both hi and lo ports. Will extract any gas, separate any in suspension PAG oil and pull a hard vaccum, stop and wait around 30 mins to test for a leak as required by law. Any water or moisture in your system (inc dryer) boils off under a vacuum and also gets pulled out. If it fails the vacuum hold test, then you'll be told you have a leak that prevents them from filling your system and don't charge you a penny.

 

If no leak, then it will fill your system with the precise weight of real new R134a gas as specified for your car, not recovered gas - that goes into a separate bottle that goes to a professional certified recycling centre. It also adds the same amount of new PAG oil as was recovered plus an extra 10ml.

 

If after that, your aircon is still not blowing cold air, they will still not charge you a penny.

 

Sounds like a better/safer deal to me.

 

Alternatively tyresonthedrive.com (halfords mobile service) will come your house and do the job for £50 again with professional certified equipment and real new R134a gas, though if it fails the leak test you will still have to pay a reduced cost (not sure how much) I found this service excellent with the technician performing extra checks and reporting on on hi/lo pressure while the aircon was running.

 

All will report how much gas was extracted if asked.

 

Edited 27 July, 2021 by xman

[J.R.]

56 minutes ago, xman said:

 

So this wonderful STP bottle is just some overpriced Butane (R600) plus the usual "patented" snake oil additives. Interested to see what the MSDS sheet says about the inflammability of the contents. 

 

 

 

From the Halfords page selling the snake oil you can "view the safety data sheet", here is a link to it,

https://ulmysds.com/CustomErrors/MissingSDS.aspx?id=Halfords

you will find it very revealing (not!) - it tells you all you need to know - but like me you already knew it!

[rum4mo]

Hummmm, and add to that STP EZ Chill says its from Energizer - and when you click onto their USA website, I can't find any reference to these chiller/chilling products - only batteries, which I also avoid.

 

One honest statement is "it replaces your lost AC gas" - but with what!

[Breezy_Pete]

10 hours ago, J.R. said:

here is a link to it,

Didn't work for me?

[J.R.]

That is the point, they are too embarrassed to actually show the data sheet & refer you to the manufacturers  STP who will just be snake oil sellers and not manufacturers

[KingTui]

Hello,

 

A quick search online and I found this MSDS for the recharge gas. Very interesting and helpful post from Xman, I will consider this next time i need to re-gas my AC. 

 

Tui

[Breezy_Pete]

That's not STP EZ chill though?

[Breezy_Pete]

Halfords don't seem to currently sell either that or the EZ chill, unless I'm being daft?

UK Site Navigation | Halfords UK

 

Edit: looks like I was. And their search is a bit crappy

EZ Chill Auto Air Conditioning Recharge - Gas R134A | Halfords UK

Edited 28 July, 2021 by Wino

[KenONeill]

52 minutes ago, Wino said:

That's not STP EZ chill though?

Dunno - It is chemically R134a, although it doesn't say so.

[Breezy_Pete]

So you can buy (from Halfords) STP EZ chill which I'm told isn't R134a even though the title on the web page says that term.

 

You can't buy (from Halfords) the STP Auto freeze that is covered by that MSDS, unless I'm continuing to be daft with their search box. That linked document is from Jan 2018, so may not reflect the current formulation of STP Auto Freeze, I suggest, wherever you might be able to get that from.

 

 

[xman]

Seems like Halfords may be breaking the law then

 

Quote

It is against the law to buy F gas or sell F gas to a person if the person buying does not have the correct qualifications or certificates. If you do, you could receive a civil penalty. See the Environment Agency enforcement sanctions policy.

If you see someone breaking the law on F gas, report it to [email protected]

 

Maybe someone here can report them...

[Breezy_Pete]

No, I think they are just using a misleading title for the EZ chill product?  

[rum4mo]

Yup, one of the products is suitable for use as a top up for R134a systems - the other STP EZ Chill product is suitable for use as a top up for the current AC gas.

[Breezy_Pete]

2 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

Yup, one of the products is suitable for use as a top up for R134a systems - the other STP EZ Chill product is suitable for use as a top up for the current AC gas.

Huh?

STP EZ Chill says R134a (even though it isn't), that's not the current AC gas. Which product do you mean in the first bit of your sentence?