Oh No another mk2 VRS (2011) Over heating issues

[Mrr4nd411]

Good afternoon!

 

recently bought my 4th Skoda 

an immaculate 2011 vrs white with black roof and some extras (rear electric windows, sun roof, climate control)
 

prior to purchasing I was aware of the many issues surrounding these engines and did a fair amount of research and felt confident about inspecting it,

 

id say I’m mid to good at knowing my way round a toolbox so 90% of problems I should be able to solve.

 

the only issue expressed by the seller (private sale) was that it was consuming some coolant and he couldn’t figure out where but it had had the head gasket done (and head skimmed) in March this year, the engine bay shows evidence of the HG clearly going quite spectacularly!

on my drive home the car overheated and misfired although I could control the temp by coasting.

 

I believe I have fixed the misfire, I discovered that there were 2 different types of spark plug fitted… I have fitted the NGK BKR7IEX as recommended, since then no misfire.

 

As for the overheating I am baffled, did a combustion test on the coolant, no obvious signs of leaking, no smudge in the oil, oil level is good, the only thing I have noticed happened today, I had fitted a new expansion cap, unaware that it was about 0.5mm OD smaller than the original the coolant boiled over past the cap, dropping all the coolant in the system.

 

Thermostats or water pump seem to be the obvious culprits, I’m reluctant to replace the water pump as the garage that did the HG say that they replaced it (although the spark plug discovery isn’t filling me with confidence) 

 

I’m wondering if there is anything about the cooling system that I don’t know about that might be causing it, as trying to search for overheating issues with this engine isn’t revealing anything

 

side note there is a high pitched noise (almost like an air raid siren) coming from the belt drive system, I believe it to be ac compressor or alternator bearing, it stops the moment the car is revved above idle and only returns once returned to idle, could this be the water pump? The noise seems more towards the front of the engine rather than the pump but as I’m thinking it’s alternator or ac I’ve kind of been ignoring it.

 

Thanks in advance! 
Tom

[Rsrob]

Most likely to be the coolant pump common problem with the 1.4 TSI as it Dives the supercharger as well I start looking there 

[Ootohere]

Overheating has not been a common issue reported on this forum since 2010 with 1,4TSI Twinchargers. 

Never seen a single case actually. 

Unless it was about radiator leaks, or Coolant Bottles.

 

Common is slight loss of coolant yes, the Turbo being imobilised, the Waterpumps needing replaced yes,

that includes the magnetic clutch for the superchargers.

 

Reports of pattern water pumps and issues has been common, Audi, Seat, VW, SEAT 1.4 TSI / TFSI Twinchargers.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452647-fabia-vrs-mk2-waterpumpsupercharger-clutch-part-number

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/378939-water-pump-failure-vrs

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/429228-fabia-mkii-vrs-water-pump-failed

 

 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Mrr4nd411]

@Rsrob @e-Roottoot

 

thanks guys, water pump is is then! 
not sure if my problem being uncommon is a good thing or a bad thing

 

lucky that it’s not too bad of a job

[Kobayashi]

When my water pump was failing steam was coming out of my vented bonnet.  

[Kobayashi]

The workshop guys had both components in their hands, the good part had no play whereas the bad one above does. 

[Mrr4nd411]

@Kobayashi thank you,

the more I think about it the more your answers make sense, 

 

the coolant is getting to 90 and holding until the oil reaches 100 or so then the coolant starts rising,

 

must be a duff pump, surely it wouldn’t hold 90 otherwise, even a leak in the system would cause the coolant to continuously rise in temp,

 

have to dig into it after I’ve sold my bmw now, can’t keep paying for double insurance!

 

lucky that my other Skoda hasn’t missed a beat in 5 years of ownership ☺️

[Mrr4nd411]

Hey guys, I changed my water pump yesterday and after getting up to temp before driving and then driving for 30 mins the car didn’t over heat, want to do some more/longer/higher speed trips to see if it’s completely resolved or not, just wondering but what kind of temp is normal for the oil on these engines?

 

with a very relaxed drive with a few spirited accelerations I was at 104degC, is this what’s expected? I know the twin chargers are a very hot engine anyway

 

thanks

Tom

[Ootohere]

Normal is around and indicated 92°C once up to temp if just at around the NSL,s in the UK on a not Scorchio day.  Up into the early 100 plus if pushing it, people with you so car loaded and warmer weather.  But as you ease off the indicated oil temp should be dropping down to near 90 degrees again.  That is where the coolant should be and that is how things work, coolant cools oil which is also a coolant.    Oil 5w 30 FS III. Or 5w 40 FS up at correct  Quantity so 3.6 litre min,.a Low oil level will have the oil getting hotter quicker and cooling slower.      Personally it would always be 5w 40 for me in a twincharger and not Long Life oil.    PS.  They are not very hot engines if running the right quantity of oil.  The 3.6 litres as per spec is not much.  I used to be running 4 litres, and there were techs that put that much in from oil and filter changes.  Showing in area A on the dipstick when checked on the flat at normal operating temp.  So at 90°C indicated and not as owners manual says for Skoda which is 'warm' while VW, Seat and Audi said 'hot' *know where it is when cold before you start the engine.*

Edited 13 September, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Mrr4nd411]

Thank you @e-Roottoot

 

I have no idea what oil it’s running as it was apparently serviced a month before purchase and I only ever remember to check the level when the car is up to temp (shows over max) 

 

might drop the oil and fill with 5w40 fs, any recommended brand?

 

is there any other causes of high oil temp other than incorrect oil/oil level or possibly low viscosity from previous overheating?

 

I don’t even know is these engines have a dedicated oil cooler or where it’s located, 

 

thanks

Tom

Edited 13 September, 2021 by Mrr4nd411

[sepulchrave]

That oil temperature is fine, I'm not sure why you're worried about it but I can assure you that you want your oil to get hot enough to boil off any moisture.

Also consider that the sensor will not be accurate, if you swap the sensor you'll probably get different readings.

It's normal to catastrophise a little after a big blow up but your engine sounds healthy now, you can relax.

[Mrr4nd411]

Thanks @sepulchrave

 

i know I’m being a bit hyper aware and I defo haven’t learnt to trust the car yet (or trust the last garage that worked on it) especially since at no point during my ownership has it been in a reliable working condition.

 

I guess I’m just trying to rule out small issues before any potential big issues,

 

the 3 big problems I hope I have now solved, coolant loss, over heating coolant, and misfires,

 

just want to get the car in to a state where I know when I get in that I’ll get to where I want to go, also this means any future issues I may be able to diagnose more quickly,

 

I just want to learn as much as I can about this engine since it clearly has quite a few gremlins

 

i think I’ll change the oil (£40 oil and filter isn’t the end of the world) if I’m still getting the same oil temps I’ll relax, like you said could just be sensor discrepancy,

 

at least for now I know 30 min drives with gentle foot is fine, 

 

I trust my own work so I guess the more I replace the more I’ll trust it

 

Tom

 

 

[sepulchrave]

Since the engine has a known history and a blown HG indicates that it was badly overheated you might be better off replacing the old oil temperature sensor which would have been cooked for sure.

Buy a genuine part because pattern parts often use cheap thermistors with a poor tolerance rating.

[Ootohere]

@Mrr4nd411

Not even £40 for for litres of oil & a filter.

Asda / Tesco / Comma / Quntum / Fuchs or anyones 5w 40 FS to VW 502 00     That is for Fixed Oil & Filter Changes. 

 

Dipped cold the oil on the flat bit above the cross hatch is correct.

@ or above the Orange Plastic is wrong and will be more than 3.9-4 litres in.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/486406-oil-recommendation-for-14-tsi-rs-cave

 

 

 

59fc1f3e14a29_SkodaFabiaengineoilcapacities (1).webp

Edited 13 September, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Mrr4nd411]

Thanks @e-Roottoot

 

I’ll pick some up and get it changed!

[Kobayashi]

Mine was also running lumpy in DSG gears 3 to 4 before service think it was the fuel filter?? But best to change oil to something you know than rely on previous owner

[Mickmartin]

How many miles has it done? Its extremely rare that one of these has or needed a new head gasket, You may be the first person that I've ever heard of having it done as in reality the exhaust valves and guides, lifters, followers and timing chain set?

 

I dint want to say it didn't need a new head, Its just a rarity on these.

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, Mickmartin said:

How many miles has it done? Its extremely rare that one of these has or needed a new head gasket, You may be the first person that I've ever heard of having it done as in reality the exhaust valves and guides, lifters, followers and timing chain set?

 

I dint want to say it didn't need a new head, Its just a rarity on these.

 

He didn't get it done, it was done by the previous owner, if you overheat any engine badly enough it'll blow the HG.

[Mrr4nd411]

15 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

He didn't get it done, it was done by the previous owner, if you overheat any engine badly enough it'll blow the HG.

Yeah I believe there’s an underlying issue causing the overheat and the previous owner ignored it until the HG went.

 

yesterday morning it drove for 40 mins of mixed motorway, 50ave zones and city driving and maintained 104degC oil temp, and lost a very small amount of coolant,

 

yesterday afternoon the exact same journey in reverse it immediately overheated. Also the coolant is being compressed into the hoses, (I get a low coolant level warning, coolant bottle empty, when I release the cap it refills the expansion tank), I’m not sure what’s causing this, I have ordered a new cap which is arriving today (febi branded) other than that I’d be guessing at thermostat/thermostat housing.

 

When the HG was done none of coolant residue was cleaned so the engine bay is mostly white making it very difficult to figure out what’s old and what’s new, however I do find new marks on top of the expansion bottle which confuses me.

 

as for replacing the HG no one I’ve called wants to touch it, the closest I’ve got to a repair bill is £5200 for a new engine 

[sepulchrave]

Ok, your HG has gone again or worse still the head's cracked, combustion gases are pressurising the coolant and when you release the pressure it flows back and the hoses soften.

 

This means the job was not done properly and you should return the car pronto or you face an enormous bill.

[thomasaspin]

6 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Ok, your HG has gone again or worse still the head's cracked, combustion gases are pressurising the coolant and when you release the pressure it flows back and the hoses soften.

 

This means the job was not done properly and you should return the car pronto or you face an enormous bill.

Good call or I have had this when a system has not been bled properly and has a massive air lock trying running it without the  cap on while stationary let it get upto temp and see what happens 

[Mickmartin]

38 minutes ago, thomasaspin said:

Good call or I have had this when a system has not been bled properly and has a massive air lock trying running it without the  cap on while stationary let it get upto temp and see what happens 

 

Cap off and and give all radiator hoses a good squeeze, Fully bled my coolant system last week and it was minging, don't let the coolant colour in the bottle fool you.

If it was a air lock in I’d imagine the EML light would come on and fire the car Into limp mode as the supercharger wouldn’t engage.

 

As I said before , head gaskets on these are a rarity, to blow or crack the head….Somethings went majorly wrong, I’d be trying to find out if that was fixed or what caused it.

Have you got contact with the previous owner?

 

Would hate to think it’s had a failing water pump and somebody’s jumped the gun and replaced the head gasket and not done it properly.

[sepulchrave]

Apparently the engine blew its load all over the engine bay which suggests a major excursion, to have white coolant residue everywhere would mean radical overheating and potential head casting failure.

[Mrr4nd411]

Thank you for all your responses, so I’m not saying your wrong about HG as tbh it’s been a high possibility from day 1 but I’m going to throw a spanner in the works

 

When i initially thought it was HG I bought a combustion tester and sure enough it turned yellow indicating exhaust gasses in the coolant

 

I figured I had nothing to loose and poured in some steel seal..

 

since then I have rechecked with the combustion tester multiple times and it hasn’t changed colour at all, not only that but there’s no white smoke from the exhaust and the tail pipes are never wet.

 

this is the one thing that’s throwing me off HG and why I think something else caused the old HG to go,

 

I have changed the waterpump

now and that improved things slightly, I think my next step is going to be fit the cap I have just bought and possibly remove the thermostats.

If that fails I’m not sure how much more time and money I’m willing to put into it, real shame because it’s a fantastic little car

[sepulchrave]

Let us know how you get on.