Car completely dying (zero power)... Full details below - any ideas please?

[Hawthorn654]

Hi all

 

I appreciate that this is a long shot asking, but it's out of somewhat desperation.  Any thoughts greatly appreciated.  

 

I have a Skoda Fabia Estate 2003 (1.2 petrol).  It's on around 130,000 miles but has always been a great runner, very few problems at all.  It's mainly used for short journeys to work, but recently have had to start travelling back and forth to Norfolk from Wales every 6 - 8 weeks.

 

The first problems started a couple of months ago with the car stuttering whilst traveling during local journeys.  No warning lights came on, and nothing untoward would happen, it just wasn't smooth and would stutter along a bit before sorting itself out.  It then got a little worse, so I called out the RAC. They said it was an easy quick fix... The little rubber pipe on the left of the engine had disconnected.  Not sure what it's called, but it recycles the exhaust gases for further burning rather than releasing them to the atmosphere.  Is seemed to the job.  Perhaps the stutter happened once or twice more but nothing like it was.

 

No idea if that's related to the next bit, but best to give the full story!

 

So a few weeks later I was driving back Norfolk and the car conked out completely.  I'd been travelling on the motorway fine, but after stopping in a service station as I was pulling back onto the motorway the car totally died.  As I remember, the oil warning light came on very briefly just before everything died. 

 

The RAC initially thought it was kind of rodent damage to the fuel pump.  When he changed the fuse, he said it just fused itself and nothing happened so he wondered it mice had chewed some interconnecting cable.  However, he then said he put in a higher voltage fuse than normal and the car started and ticked over (although very chuggy).  This lead him onto coil pack no 3, which he said dead shorted, and that I needed a new multiplug and coil.  He said it had also burnt out the connecting wires (see photo's).  He didn't have the parts of board, so I later arranged for my mechanic to do the work. 

 

The car has been working fine since its trip to the mechanic.  Up until now!  I had to come back to Norfolk a few days ago.  It was absolutely fine on the main journey and a few shorter journeys once back.  But then, after dropping my partner off, I went to start the car and it completely died again.  It was as if the battery had been disconnected - no internal clock or mileage.  Nothing.  A few minutes later, and the electrics came back on.  The car started fine.  But a couple of restarts later and the same thing happened; completely dead.  That was all a couple of days ago.  Today it's starting fine as if nothing has happened, but  I haven't tried taking it out for fear of it dying whilst being driven. 

 

Any ideas would be gratefully received.  Also, any opinions on whether this fault could be related to the previous one would be really helpful. I've since noticed that where the burnt out cables were on the coil pack, they are now covered with tape.  I'm not sure if this is a problem or could be causing the problem as I'm wondering if the mechanic taped up the wires rather than replacing them?  Also, somebody mentioned that the wires could have burnt out because the RAC put in the higher fuse?  Would that really be possible?

 

I'm going to call out the RAC to see what they say. However, my concern is how certain can they be what is causing the problem?  I'm not keen on heading back onto the motorway without knowing it's a 100% fixed, but I'm not sure how possible that even is with an intermittent fault.  Plus, forewarned is forearmed, and I know a lot of people here know their Skoda onions and so might have some leads on what might be going on.  

 

Huge thanks for reading

 

 

 

Edited 29 August, 2021 by Hawthorn654

[KenONeill]

19 minutes ago, Hawthorn654 said:

However, my concern is how certain can they be what is causing the problem?

You need someone competent to read fault codes using VCDS, OBD11 or a dealership grade computer.

[Breezy_Pete]

18 minutes ago, Hawthorn654 said:

They said it was an easy quick fix... The little rubber pipe on the left of the engine had disconnected.  Not sure what it's called, but it recycles the exhaust gases for further burning rather than releasing them to the atmosphere.  Is seemed to the job.

This wasn't a fix for anything. The EGR will work fine with that rubber pipe unconnected.  Sheer luck (or temperature change or some other factor) that things started working better after this.

 

I don't think this latest fault sounds like it's related to the ignition coil wiring, it sounds more 'global'.

 

Checking battery clamps for tightness would be a first easy step.

 

 

 

[mpm222]

After battery clamps, check earth to body work connections.

[Hawthorn654]

Many thanks for the replies.  

 

18 hours ago, KenONeill said:

You need someone competent to read fault codes using VCDS, OBD11 or a dealership grade computer.

 

Do the computer things the RAC carry with them fit the above?  Or are they something more basic?  

 

18 hours ago, Wino said:

This wasn't a fix for anything. The EGR will work fine with that rubber pipe unconnected.  Sheer luck (or temperature change or some other factor) that things started working better after this.

 

That's really strange for a couple of reasons.   Firstly, if I remember right it wasn't so much him seeing that the pipe was disconnected.  I'm pretty sure it was a fault code which led him to it.  Secondly, before the "fix" the car would stutter on every journey more or less, most of which were short journeys.  Afterwards, it only did it once or twice over quite a few short journeys and a 600 mile round trip.  So everything pointed to that being the cause and that it had been "fixed"... Not that I'm doubting what you're saying!   

 

18 hours ago, Wino said:

I don't think this latest fault sounds like it's related to the ignition coil wiring, it sounds more 'global'.

 

On that note...  We spoke to a local mobile mechanic, and he said that they shouldn't have just changed coil pack no 3, but should have changed all of the coil packs.  He's surprised they didn't, and seems to think if he was to come out that would be the first thing he would do.  No-one else mentioned this at the time.  What do you guys think?  Is it usually best to change all three?

 

18 hours ago, Wino said:

Checking battery clamps for tightness would be a first easy step.

 

A neighbour who is a retired mechanic had a quick passing glance at the battery and said it looked ok.  But a tighten and clean up perhaps?  And likewise for the earth connections as @mpm222suggests  

 

 

More generally RE the battery, could an old battery cause the problems described?  The car has recently had work, and MOPT, and a couple of RAC call outs and no-one said anything about the battery.  But it is an old 'un...

 

 

Regarding the car computer...:

- How long does it store fault codes for?

- Are the fault codes time and date stamped?  When the gizmo is plugged in, does it show when the fault happened?  

 

Thanks again.  This forum is so helpful!

 

 

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, Hawthorn654 said:

Do the computer things the RAC carry with them fit the above?  Or are they something more basic?

I don't actually know, beyond that the devices and software I cited are specific to VAG cars.

 

As for the computer "it depends" but my local garage has found and deleted spurious electronics codes (caused by a sticky alternator clutch) months later.

[Breezy_Pete]

2 hours ago, Hawthorn654 said:

That's really strange for a couple of reasons.

And really logical for at least a few.

The EGR is fully electric, not vacuum operated. That hose goes to the airbox, conveying a small quantity of filtered air to the valve.  If it's disconnected, it simply conveys unfiltered air instead; nothing in or beyond the EGR valve could detect this change.

The fault code, if there was one, may have pointed to an EGR fault (which are not uncommon), but clearing it - which he probably did - may be enough to prevent recurrence of any such fault for some time.

 

2 hours ago, Hawthorn654 said:

should have changed all of the coil packs

Garages and mechanics like to change as many parts as they can convince you might be worthwhile, because they get paid both in the mark-up on the parts and the labour to fit them.  Throwing away working parts and replacing them with new ones that may well be lower quality is dumb.  Your current fault seems completely inconsistent with one or more failed coilpacks.

 

2 hours ago, Hawthorn654 said:

a quick passing glance at the battery and said it looked ok

If you mean that literally, then every battery ever glanced at is probably 'looking OK' unless one of the connections is actually dangling off the side.

 

2 hours ago, Hawthorn654 said:

a tighten and clean up perhaps? 

Yes, but primarily to check that neither is completely loose, which might occur by forgetfulness during the work on the loom and coilpack.  That would be highly consistent with 'all or nothing' type behaviour you're seeing.

 

2 hours ago, Hawthorn654 said:

could an old battery cause the problems described?

Very unlikely, I think, but if you have the means to check its state of charge (voltage before starting the engine), do so.

 

 

 

 

[Hawthorn654]

You guys are great and really appreciate your time and help with this.  Thank you so much.  

[Hawthorn654]

Well, well, well...   

 

I've not been with the car since before I made this thread.  Got to it this morning and before calling the RAC I did as recommended.  Seems the culprit is the neutral battery clamp, which is loose and half way up the pole.  I'm no expert, but based on what you guys have said I feel reasonably confident that this is the problem.  To be sure though I've taken a couple of photos which I hoped someone might kindly take a look at?  Please see below.  

 

Presuming this is the problem, I don't know much/anything about working on car batteries so could anyone tell me how to reconnect/tighten the terminal safely please?  

 

Thanks again for all the help.  I wish most the mechanics I meet and use were as good as you guys!!!  I owe you all a pint or ten   

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[KenONeill]

16 minutes ago, Hawthorn654 said:

Presuming this is the problem

Yeah, well even if that's not the problem it's not helping any.

 

1. Loosen the clamp bolt (opposite end from the cable and control wire (thin black wire; other end will attach to alternator).
2. Push the clamp right down the post.
3. Align the clamp so it doesn't touch the battery box.
4. Re-tighten the clamp (spanner tight but not gorilla tight).
5. Job jobbed.

[Hawthorn654]

Thank you - that's fantastic.  Is there anything I need to do - or not do - from a safety point of view?

[sepulchrave]

You need to loosen the 10mm nut where the terminal is split but don't remove it,  then remove the terminal from the battery, clean everything and apply a thin coat of grease before refitting, tap the terminal back onto the battery post fully then retighten the 10mm nut.

[Breezy_Pete]

11 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

(thin black wire; other end will attach to alternator).

No, that goes to the onboard supply control unit in the cabin. 

 

 

 

[Hawthorn654]

Just wanted to update the thread to say all was well after tightening the connection...  And more importantly to say a huge thank you for helping.  What a great forum!  

 

Is there a forum charity or anything like that?  I feel the advice I've got on here has always been great and it's time to say thanks in more than words   

[Breezy_Pete]

Good stuff, glad to hear it was a cheap fix! 

Ways to support BRISKODA - Site & Motoring News - BRISKODA

[KenONeill]

22 minutes ago, Hawthorn654 said:

Is there a forum charity

Not that I'm aware of. I personally support the RNLI, Help for Heroes and some local charities.

[richardmono]

Just wanted to tell everyone about Relay 109 on my 2003 2.0 FabiaSport LHD here in Dubai.

Engine cutting out intermittently. It was a very difficult issue to find and very dangerous if on a highway and the engine just dies.

It was finally traced to Relay 109 that controls everything (I think) terminal 30 on the relay was very slightly loose at the point where it

attaches to the relay board, going over a bump in the road caused electrical power to just go dead, and hence engine stalled.

 

If anyone is struggling with this matter please check those relays and don't get stuck like me, with a very annoying situation.

 

Fabia is now running fine after such a long time. This is from my brother out in Dubai.