Strut connector replacement

[Wingreen]

One of the struts on my Fabia Estate 1200 has broken. Well, the strut is OK but the connector (to the side panel) has come out. See picture. Initially looked like a fairly simple job (just get it back in the hole and get to the other side and screw on the nut. However, I took it to my local garage but he tells me that its "double skineed" - so he cant get to the "other side" to get the nut in place. He suggested only option might be to cut a hole in the (metal) bodywork to get to where the nut needs to be! Only other option might be to weld it back. I did talk to my local "welder" and he wasnt very sure about taking it on as he thought there might be insulation inside (which might catch fire!) and/or that electrical wiring might be behind the metal which would get damaged. Anyone had any experience of replacing one of these? Or any ideas?

[KenONeill]

9 minutes ago, Wingreen said:

so he cant get to the "other side" to get the nut in place.

That statement is correct as far as it goes. However, these fixings often use captive nuts, in which case the illustrated connector may just have come unscrewed. You've nothing to lose by offering it up to the hole and seeing if the thread still has a captive nut to pick up on.

[Wingreen]

6 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

That statement is correct as far as it goes. However, these fixings often use captive nuts, in which case the illustrated connector may just have come unscrewed. You've nothing to lose by offering it up to the hole and seeing if the thread still has a captive nut to pick up on.

Thanks - if only! I did try that but no luck. No bite. Its possible there might have been a captive nut at one time but it must have escaped!

[KenONeill]

12 minutes ago, Wingreen said:

there might have been a captive nut at one time but it must have escaped!

Well, in that case the advice you already have is correct. 😞 

[sepulchrave]

Since the hole is blind you can try getting a Rivnut installed, it may not be strong enough for a long-term fix but given the age of the car it'll probably last long enough.

[rum4mo]

The trouble, the way I see it from any rivnuts I've seen, is how to "set" it in place in a blind hole, typically the rivnut would get inserted from the rear of that skin and get clinched to it.

 

Have you exhausted all/any way of fishing down that void with a bit of hooked stiff wire, to see if you can bring it back up and then try super glueing it in place until you can screw that fixing back into it.

 

The trouble might be that there has been serious thread damage, what does the thread on that stud look like, ie like new so serviceable, or has it lost some depth from the threads, unfortunately the same will apply to the vanished original welded nut.

[Wingreen]

30 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Well, in that case the advice you already have is correct. 😞 

The advice re the risks in relation to the dangers with welding and cutting  a hole in the metal?

[sepulchrave]

28 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

The trouble, the way I see it from any rivnuts I've seen, is how to "set" it in place in a blind hole, typically the rivnut would get inserted from the rear of that skin and get clinched to it.

 

Have you exhausted all/any way of fishing down that void with a bit of hooked stiff wire, to see if you can bring it back up and then try super glueing it in place until you can screw that fixing back into it.

 

The trouble might be that there has been serious thread damage, what does the thread on that stud look like, ie like new so serviceable, or has it lost some depth from the threads, unfortunately the same will apply to the vanished original welded nut.

 

I don't know which Rivnuts you've been using but they work exactly like a pop rivetter and require no access to the back, otherwise why would I make such a stupid suggestion?

[Wingreen]

The Rivnut suggestion sounds interesting. Never heard of them but I will look into it. The thread on the piece I have (pictured) is fine, plenty of (potential) bite.

[sepulchrave]

https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/all-hand-tools/laser-nut-riveter-and-40-nut-rivets-221900.html?istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istFeedId=367c5610-f937-4c81-8609-f84582324cd6&istItemId=xitlprlxl&istBid=t&_$ja=tsid:|cid:11902546034|agid:113456751337|tid:pla-331014970735|crid:487900199209|nw:u|rnd:10635378374133621841|dvc:m|adp:|mt:|loc:1006787&gclid=CjwKCAjwwsmLBhACEiwANq-tXHrB3JAJyGicMlHSKMkNdDQtPuWT6GIs00iPO5kK9A-OGb8tXIsf9hoC7IEQAvD_BwE

 

I'm not saying this is the best choice, only that it is a possible solution, you need to check thread sizes and you may need to cut the rivnut down a little, I would also coat the rivnut in superglue gel before final fitting to help prevent it spinning when you wind the ball in.

[Wingreen]

27 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/all-hand-tools/laser-nut-riveter-and-40-nut-rivets-221900.html?istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istFeedId=367c5610-f937-4c81-8609-f84582324cd6&istItemId=xitlprlxl&istBid=t&_$ja=tsid:|cid:11902546034|agid:113456751337|tid:pla-331014970735|crid:487900199209|nw:u|rnd:10635378374133621841|dvc:m|adp:|mt:|loc:1006787&gclid=CjwKCAjwwsmLBhACEiwANq-tXHrB3JAJyGicMlHSKMkNdDQtPuWT6GIs00iPO5kK9A-OGb8tXIsf9hoC7IEQAvD_BwE

 

I'm not saying this is the best choice, only that it is a possible solution, you need to check thread sizes and you may need to cut the rivnut down a little, I would also coat the rivnut in superglue gel before final fitting to help prevent it spinning when you wind the ball in.

Thanks. Currently, I think its my only choice. Will explore other options before giving it a go. Thanks for your help

[Breezy_Pete]

Have you removed the D-pillar trim to see what access holes there may be nearby?

Happened to me on my Polo a while back, and there was a hole close enough that I could stick a nut to the end of a bit of coathanger wire or similar, and carefully position it where the old one had fallen out from.

[mrgf]

That Halfords nut riveter looked a handy tool but I think it might be too weak for the pressure needed. It looks like a brake caliper repair tool threaded insert might just work but even then, I doubt it. The metal, without the nut, might be quite thin and flimsy.

[sepulchrave]

This is absolutely extraordinary, I must be the only person here who has actually USED Rivnuts and I can categorically tell you that they are plenty strong enough because the bolt you wind into the set Rivnut actually tightens the fixing clamping it even harder.

[KenONeill]

17 minutes ago, mrgf said:

The metal, without the nut, might be quite thin and flimsy.

It is. Typically it will be maybe 1/16" thick (thinner than one turn of your thread).

[mrgf]

25 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

This is absolutely extraordinary, I must be the only person here who has actually USED Rivnuts and I can categorically tell you that they are plenty strong enough because the bolt you wind into the set Rivnut actually tightens the fixing clamping it even harder.

You may well be right but the original nut must have given way somehow and that was a long established design! I would find out the pressure the rivnut can take prior to doing it myself. 

 

Just a thought but as you mentioned no nut (Orig. OP), have you checked it IS no nut and not just a worn thread? If the nut was still there and had got worn out so as to be loose, you could possibly re-tap it and fit a balljoint with a larger thread or have a helicoil or something fitted to your balljoint. Clutching at straws there, as I think you would have looked into this!

 

Prior to any other work though, try what Wino suggested earlier as it may just eliminate the whole problem. If you find the nut or access to fit another, be sure to but some high-strength thread lock on too so as to help prevent a recurrence. 

 

I too, had one of my strut balljoints go loose and pop off but luckily re-fitted it no problem. I found it came loose again some time later so took steps to tighten it properly with a spanner this time, rather then a DIY job, in situ, with those silly cheap toolkit pliers made of cheese or something!

Edited 22 October, 2021 by mrgf

[Wingreen]

2 hours ago, Wino said:

Have you removed the D-pillar trim to see what access holes there may be nearby?

Happened to me on my Polo a while back, and there was a hole close enough that I could stick a nut to the end of a bit of coathanger wire or similar, and carefully position it where the old one had fallen out from.

Well, my "friendly neighbourhood" garage guy did - and stuck a few fingers up there but he didnt make any encouraging noises. I might have a look myself when I get a chance - its my sons (old) car and he doesnt live with me and I'm just trying to help him out)

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, Wingreen said:

Well, my "friendly neighbourhood" garage guy did - and stuck a few fingers up there but he didnt make any encouraging noises. I might have a look myself when I get a chance - its my sons (old) car and he doesnt live with me and I'm just trying to help him out)

 

No good deed goes unpunished.

[J.R.]

3 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

This is absolutely extraordinary, I must be the only person here who has actually USED Rivnuts and I can categorically tell you that they are plenty strong enough because the bolt you wind into the set Rivnut actually tightens the fixing clamping it even harder.

 

You are not alone, I have been using my Avdel thin sheet nutsert kit for 35 years and it cost me £60 back then, they are flush rivets and need a slight countersink in the hole but even they would be resistant enough for the bonnet strut but the flanged ones that you propose would be much stronger, they are what all Skoda roof rails are held on with and if you believe Top Gear (and dont look very carefully) then you can land a helicopter on just 8 of the same size rivnuts.

 

Am I the only person that thought the OP was talking about the suspension strut & on looking at the photo thought it was part of the anti-roll bar drop link?

[rum4mo]

For the record it was clinch nuts that I thought was being suggested as they have a bigger surface area that this job probably requires - and they can only be fitted from the other side of the sheet of steel.

[UrbanPanzer]

A rivnut or nutsert as some will know it..... will work 100% to repair this.......However....... you need to ensure the hole remaining is only through the thinsheet / body panel. My guess is there is / was a weldnut fitted at manufacture and "if" it's still there, it will be very difficult to fit a rivnut as there will not be enough room to "form" the nut because of the weld nut, if the nut has fell off as the tack welds have broke, then great........If the nut is still there but thread is damaged, then a helicoil "may" be a better option.

 

Post a piccy of whats the there now........

 

Ref the Halfords kit,  it "looks" like it comes with Ali rivnuts, these are pretty soft and easy to strip............ steel nuts would be better and far stronger "imo" and def last the life of the car (like below)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253064908529?hash=item3aebd80ef1:g:8Y4AAOSwSIxZePl3

 

EDIT looking at the laser catalogue and spare nut parts, they are Ali nuts.

Edited 24 October, 2021 by UrbanPanzer

[rum4mo]

I fitted a rear hatch pull down handle to my wife's 2015 Polo, as she is only 5 foot tale, I bought the Skoda handle, fixing screw and nutsert, as the screw is maybe M6 or M5 and the nutsert is steel, I failed to set the nutsert in the hole I drilled - I would have been using a hi strength screw to set it but failed miserably, so used another method to provide that handle fixing screw with a "nut" - that bit not relevant here, but the effort needed to set these steel nutserts is very high which is not surprising.

 

Years ago I fell into a similar when refitting the spare wheel captive nut plate to a 1991 Fiesta, instead of buying in the genuine Ford part which would have been a plastic sleeved/sealed alloy large pop rivet, I grabbed one from work, unfortunately it made of stronger material and that trashed my Halfords pop rivet tool, I solved that by buying a heavy duty Stanley branded tool - it took some serious effort to set that pop rivet, I've never used any "acquired"  green coated serious pop rivets again!

[sepulchrave]

Yes, the Rivnut setting tool I used was of the lazy tongs type, that was for M8 Rivnuts, IIRC the strut stud is M6 which will be difficult to set with that hand tool, the longevity of the installation will be ok because the load is radial and is only half the weight of the tailgate.

The theorycrafters have already written the tailgate off so any repair is an improvement on that.

[UrbanPanzer]

I have this one, will set up to M8 nuts, M6 are no problem, even steel ones.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352389244052?epid=18020814275&hash=item520c092494:g:f2YAAOSwqoRbMOI~